Do the die-hards really hate GT?

[Piccolo Daimao]

He really sums up why GT makes absolutely no sense, if only they'd redo it or replace it...

There is already a replacement that follows the manga continuity, instead of GT which follows the anime continuity. It's called Dragon Ball Online.

That's a video game, though, which has to take creative liberties. As in, the backstory is built around the gameplay, rather than the other way round.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

That's a video game, though, which has to take creative liberties. As in, the backstory is built around the gameplay, rather than the other way round.

It's not just a video game, like the others. The story makes more sense compared to GT if you don't have the game in your mind, and Toriyama himself has creative control over the game, he is both contributing to and supervising the story and art design. And it is a continuation of the manga only, since they have the rights for the manga only, and uses only manga elements. This time it's not a what-if or a retelling.

[dbboxkaifan]

The title of the topic should change from ''Do the die-hards really hate GT?'' to ''Do the fans really hate DBGT?".

Hardcore, die-hards, it's all just fans, others love it more than others.

[Aoi]

No matter how good or bad GT gets, what kills it for me is the over use of Goku. It goes against everything Toriyama tried to do in the "Z" portion of the series. He tried to limit Goku as much as humanly possible. This is one of the reasons I love Dragon Ball so much. He's usually making nothing but extended cameos. With that, you get to not only develop new/interesting characters , but you also don't get bored of Goku.

I find this is a major flaw in most shonen these days. Toriyama realized this early thank god. For example, One Piece (a fantastic kids show). I got sick of Luffy hogging the spot light by episode 100 and there are roughly 600 + episodes of him doing the same thing. Gets very tedious.

[Bussani]

I find this is a major flaw in most shonen these days. Toriyama realized this early thank god. For example, One Piece (a fantastic kids show). I got sick of Luffy hogging the spot light by episode 100 and there are roughly 600 + episodes of him doing the same thing. Gets very tedious.

Really? I think One Piece is an example of not falling into the trap. Oda quite often finds ways to get Luffy out of the way, much like Toriyama did with Goku--and even when Luffy is around, every single member of the crew, even the "weak" ones, generally get something to do, someone to fight, and help contribute to a total victory.

[ChahikoDBZ]

I very much disliked many things about Dragon Ball GT. Though, it was still very enjoyable. I just really didn't like the way Goten's hairstyle looked. I would much rather prefer the DBZ Goten's hairstyle from when he's a teenager.

I wish Trunks had looked more like his Future-Counterpart but his outfit wasn't all that bad. Just hoped you'd see more of him using the sword. But that's fine. His personality was pretty much how you'd expect it to be from the young Trunks you watch grow up from the main timeline.

Another thing, I was very sad to see Majin Buu leave us and become one with Uub. )': Very touching moment though. Majuub was pretty badass.

There were plenty of mistakes to the anime from showing Cooler Final Form on the TV to Gohan transforming into a Super Saiyan once again. But overall I loved the show honestly.

Some of my favorite things about GT are:
You get to see the Super Saiyan 4 transformation which was put together extremely well considering how badass every detail and characteristic of the form turned out.

The adventures of Goku, Trunks, Pan, and the robot Giru out in space hunting the Black Star Dragonballs was something I found really exciting.

Golden Oozaru was a really cool transformation that I liked.

Another few things I didn't like so much/wished to have seen:
I wish Goku had stayed an adult throughout the series.

I wanted to see Goten and Trunks fuse again really badly.

Hearing Bulma mention something about becoming a Super Saiyan 5 to Vegeta, really brought up my hopes. (Once I saw all the fan-made DBAF SSJ5 images, I was satisfied.)

Trunks should have carried around his sword, like I mentioned earlier.

Really hoped to see a Super Saiyan Pan somewhere in there. Never happened though.

Anyway, I don't think any DB Fan should completely hate the series. It had some good to it and some bad to it.

[TripleRach]

ChahikoDBZ, please don't post use ridiculous font formatting in your posts. It's very hard to read entire center-aligned paragraphs, and excessive use of bold and colors is discouraged here.

[Fionordequester]

Really? I think One Piece is an example of not falling into the trap. Oda quite often finds ways to get Luffy out of the way, much like Toriyama did with Goku--and even when Luffy is around, every single member of the crew, even the "weak" ones, generally get something to do, someone to fight, and help contribute to a total victory.

Eh, I'll agree to that...but with some reservations. Oda did indeed do that, but from what I've watched (which was up until the Crocodile Saga), he only managed to do that by padding out the fight scenes to an EXCRUCIATING degree by having all these henchmen that each crew member always fought one-on-one...

[Bussani]

Eh, I'll agree to that...but with some reservations. Oda did indeed do that, but from what I've watched (which was up until the Crocodile Saga), he only managed to do that by padding out the fight scenes to an EXCRUCIATING degree by having all these henchmen that each crew member always fought one-on-one...

I like all those one-on-one fights, though. I think GT's final arc would have been better if everyone had split up and gone after the various dragons all at once instead of leaving it all to Goku and Pan.

[Fionordequester]

Well sure...but did they each have to take up a whole episode? It's been a while since I watched the FUNI dub, but, I could've sworn that's about how long each individual fight would last. It felt like it took forever for Luffy to FINALLY get to the main villain. It just felt like fan-service to me. If they were going for that, I'd rather each individual henchman be actually built up to rather than just some random goofballs who came out of nowhere (as I remember them often being).

[ChahikoDBZ]

ChahikoDBZ, please don't post use ridiculous font formatting in your posts. It's very hard to read entire center-aligned paragraphs, and excessive use of bold and colors is discouraged here.

Oops. Sorry about that. Still kinda getting used to this place.

[Piccolo Daimao]

That's a video game, though, which has to take creative liberties. As in, the backstory is built around the gameplay, rather than the other way round.

It's not just a video game, like the others. The story makes more sense compared to GT if you don't have the game in your mind, and Toriyama himself has creative control over the game, he is both contributing to and supervising the story and art design. And it is a continuation of the manga only, since they have the rights for the manga only, and uses only manga elements. This time it's not a what-if or a retelling.

My point still stands. It's a video game, taking creative liberties, whose backstory is built around the gameplay, regardless of Toriyama's involvement.

By no means is it a "replacement" of GT. Yeah, a big difference is that Online continues the manga continuity rather than the anime's, but they span completely different time periods, and it's not as if GT was simply retconned out of existence, like some dirty secret.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

By no means is it a "replacement" of GT. Yeah, a big difference is that Online continues the manga continuity rather than the anime's, but they span completely different time periods, and it's not as if GT was simply retconned out of existence, like some dirty secret.

Of course it's not a replacement, but it is an alternative story-wise.

[Piccolo Daimao]

By no means is it a "replacement" of GT. Yeah, a big difference is that Online continues the manga continuity rather than the anime's, but they span completely different time periods, and it's not as if GT was simply retconned out of existence, like some dirty secret.

Of course it's not a replacement, but it is an alternative story-wise.

Well, you said that it was a replacement, but yes, it is an alternative story-wise. Also, they're in two different mediums; not that it devalues Online's importance or anything, but like I said: creative liberties still have to be taken, and if Online was made as an anime, I think a lot of things would've had to be changed around.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, you said that it was a replacement

Oh yeah I said that... My mistake.

but yes, it is an alternative story-wise. Also, they're in two different mediums; not that it devalues Online's importance or anything, but like I said: creative liberties still have to be taken, and if Online was made as an anime, I think a lot of things would've had to be changed around.

Yep, I agree.

[MCDaveG]

Really? I think One Piece is an example of not falling into the trap. Oda quite often finds ways to get Luffy out of the way, much like Toriyama did with Goku--and even when Luffy is around, every single member of the crew, even the "weak" ones, generally get something to do, someone to fight, and help contribute to a total victory.

Eh, I'll agree to that...but with some reservations. Oda did indeed do that, but from what I've watched (which was up until the Crocodile Saga), he only managed to do that by padding out the fight scenes to an EXCRUCIATING degree by having all these henchmen that each crew member always fought one-on-one...

That's what I like on One Piece! You can pick uour favorite hero....

In Dragon Ball, I liked a Tenshinhan a lot, until his death in Saiyan arc. After that, he was just in series, standing there and I thought: ''Yeah, Tenshinhan, whatever!''
With introduction of the Freeza and Androids, every major character was pretty much written off, just standing there or blabbering something to do something at least,
or beaten up.

[Aoi]

Really? I think One Piece is an example of not falling into the trap. Oda quite often finds ways to get Luffy out of the way, much like Toriyama did with Goku--and even when Luffy is around, every single member of the crew, even the "weak" ones, generally get something to do, someone to fight, and help contribute to a total victory.

Eh, I'll agree to that...but with some reservations. Oda did indeed do that, but from what I've watched (which was up until the Crocodile Saga), he only managed to do that by padding out the fight scenes to an EXCRUCIATING degree by having all these henchmen that each crew member always fought one-on-one...

That's what I like on One Piece! You can pick uour favorite hero....

In Dragon Ball, I liked a Tenshinhan a lot, until his death in Saiyan arc. After that, he was just in series, standing there and I thought: ''Yeah, Tenshinhan, whatever!''
With introduction of the Freeza and Androids, every major character was pretty much written off, just standing there or blabbering something to do something at least,
or beaten up.

Let's face it, Toriyama needed screen time for the new and exciting characters. It isn't like GT where the other characters get pretty worthless screen time (Goten, Uub). In "Z", we get some wonderful new characters that help keep the series constantly fresh. I love how so many characters get the spot light and in a way even become the main focus of the series for awhile. Just pick 1: Androids, Freeza, Ginyu Force, Trunks, every Buu, ,etc etc etc. It's what separates this series from others: pure variety and we have time to get to know these characters.

[Aoi]

I find this is a major flaw in most shonen these days. Toriyama realized this early thank god. For example, One Piece (a fantastic kids show). I got sick of Luffy hogging the spot light by episode 100 and there are roughly 600 + episodes of him doing the same thing. Gets very tedious.

Really? I think One Piece is an example of not falling into the trap. Oda quite often finds ways to get Luffy out of the way, much like Toriyama did with Goku--and even when Luffy is around, every single member of the crew, even the "weak" ones, generally get something to do, someone to fight, and help contribute to a total victory.

Hey man. That's a fair argument. Though it's just my opinion. I genuinely don't feel interested in watching the others fight, just Luffy. For me, it legitimately feels like Oda is thinking: "Wow. I have nothing for these guys to do. Alright, random fight vs. whatever henchmen I can throw at them." They're not very memorable and feel almost like filler. As for Luffy, you know he's the main focus of everything for so long. I would have loved to have Luffy be injured for 3/4 an arc and have Zorro become the head of the straw hats,etc. Guess that's Toriyama's signature style more than Oda's. It's one of the reasons I love the "Z" portion so much. He knew that you couldn't expose Goku too much anymore. GT completely ignores the spirit of his writing.

[Piccolo Daimao]

You know, I think one problem with how Toriyama keeps Gokuu out of the spotlight to give other characters some exposure, is how he basically tosses out with everyone always saying, "Oh, when the hell is Gokuu going to get here? He may be our only hope!", and then Gohan or whoever are shafted to side while Gokuu returns with some big-ass power-up and dominates the bad guy. It just feels cheap.

I mean, seriously, they practically repeated the same scene with Gokuu vs. Nappa, and Gokuu vs. Recoom. Gokuu saves his friends in the nick of time? Check. Friends warn him about opponent's power, attempt to fight with him, and doubt his strength increase? Check. Gokuu surprises everyone by owning the villain? Check. Gokuu tells the villain's comrades to take his friend and leave the planet? Check. Even Gokuu's defeat of Butta is so similar to his defeat of Nappa it's not even funny. The only real difference is Vegeta musing about the possibility of Gokuu being a Super Saiyan.

[DBZAOTA482]

This is why the Android/Cell Saga is my 2nd favorite, Goku wasn't much use on the battlefield.