Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

[Pafupafu]

Pafupafu, is there any reason why you care so much? Fox, Shueshia, Toei, and whomever else it may concern have the money to defend themselves if they feel this hurts their products. You don't need to defend them.

Eh I don't think that needs to be addressed. He said in other posts "I have met hundreds of independent filmmakers who have used IndieGoGo and the project K&K has listed is compromising the integrity of a useful tool" and he doesn't like the name thrown on "Dragon Ball" is used as the reason the money is thrown at them.

It would almost be like asking why people wold defend things they are passionate about

I also just have no respect at all for any "filmmaker" or "producer" who piggybacks off the creativity of another person or persons and tries to put their name on it. There are plenty of more worthy ideas and projects to be funded than this. And the best part is...they are LEGAL.

[Hellspawn28]

It seems like fan films tend to get away from copyright issues since other fan films like Gamera 4 for example which was made in 2002 or 2003 was able to get away from major copy right issues from Kadokawa Pictures. Same with Batman: Dead End which had Batman fighting Xenomorphs and Predators but it seem like the director never had any legal action with 20th Century Fox or DC Comics.

[Pafupafu]

It seems like fan films tend to get away from copyright issues since other fan films like Gamera 4 for example which was made in 2002 or 2003 was able to get away from major copy right issues from Kadokawa Pictures. Same with Batman: Dead End which had Batman fighting Xenomorphs and Predators but it seem like the director never had any legal action with 20th Century Fox or DC Comics.

I am familiar with Batman:Dead End and can tell you for a fact that it was privately funded and did NOT go on a public website to promote large sum donations using DC logos or images or even footage.

[Avenged]

I haven't been up to date with this project but are they still working on it? I hear some copyright issues got in the way from having this happening?

Nope, clearly still working on it.

https://twitter.com/#!/DBZ_Saiyan_Saga

They are almost done filming it and have released a few set photos.

[thefatman13]

I have been watching their update videos as they come out and it looks very impressive.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

I also just have no respect at all for any "filmmaker" or "producer" who piggybacks off the creativity of another person or persons and tries to put their name on it. There are plenty of more worthy ideas and projects to be funded than this. And the best part is...they are LEGAL.

Why not? As an artist, I use fanart or already familiar works as a way to advance specific skills. For example lets say I wanted to try a different approach to shading. I could use someone as familiar as Goku, someone I know like the back of my hand, and just practice different shading techniques without having to worry about the set up. From their I can take the styles I like and throw them in my own creative work later on down the road. How is this any different?

As a film maker he's taking a familiar story, one that he loves, and using it to experiment with different shooting techniques and styles. He gets to learn from this: how to handle actors; working on a budget; great filming techniques; and most importantly he gets to entertain people. From this experience alone, these guys can walk away with the knowledge and experience of making an action movie. All the while, they have the opportunity to gain fans who would have otherwise given them a passing look. They aren't hurting anybody in fact they are doing the opposite they are entertaining people and doing their job.

Creative work is fantastic! I have great admiration for directions who write and direct their own movies. However, not everyone in Hollywood is like that, you are not always going to get the chance to write and direct your own movies. Sometimes you will be directing other peoples work. These guys are getting a head start on all this. Walking away from this, they would have already learned how to handle such situations all while being able to take the things they've learned and implement them into their own work.

Also, I take it you don't like Dragonball's anime? Akira Toriyama didn't sit in with the art directors on every episode. Toei and artist like Minoru Maeda(who happens to be on the front page btw), took his work and "piggybacked" off it while putting their name on it. You must not be a fan of television shows, comicbooks or video games too I'm guessing. Writers and directors come and go constantly in these situations. Sometimes you will see amazing work done by people who "piggy back" off of other's ideas. But I guess they don't deserve respect.

Also seeing as how this is non profit and money is being donated, I don't see any evidence to support this being illegal. None of the finished product is going to sold afterwards. Hell, it's just a trailer. It's no different then the Street Fighter fan movie. He is doing it for the fans and they(clearly) want to see it come to light.

[Pafupafu]

I also just have no respect at all for any "filmmaker" or "producer" who piggybacks off the creativity of another person or persons and tries to put their name on it. There are plenty of more worthy ideas and projects to be funded than this. And the best part is...they are LEGAL.

Why not? As an artist, I use fanart or already familiar works as a way to advance specific skills. For example lets say I wanted to try a different approach to shading. I could use someone as familiar as Goku, someone I know like the back of my hand, and just practice different shading techniques without having to worry about the set up. From their I can take the styles I like and throw them in my own creative work later on down the road. How is this any different?

As a film maker he's taking a familiar story, one that he loves, and using it to experiment with different shooting techniques and styles. He gets to learn from this: how to handle actors; working on a budget; great filming techniques; and most importantly he gets to entertain people. From this experience alone, these guys can walk away with the knowledge and experience of making an action movie. All the while, they have the opportunity to gain fans who would have otherwise given them a passing look. They aren't hurting anybody in fact they are doing the opposite they are entertaining people and doing their job.

Creative work is fantastic! I have great admiration for directions who write and direct their own movies. However, not everyone in Hollywood is like that, you are not always going to get the chance to write and direct your own movies. Sometimes you will be directing other peoples work. These guys are getting a head start on all this. Walking away from this, they would have already learned how to handle such situations all while being able to take the things they've learned and implement them into their own work.

Also, I take it you don't like Dragonball's anime? Akira Toriyama didn't sit in with the art directors on every episode. Toei and artist like Minoru Maeda(who happens to be on the front page btw), took his work and "piggybacked" off it while putting their name on it. You must not be a fan of television shows, comicbooks or video games too I'm guessing. Writers and directors come and go constantly in these situations. Sometimes you will see amazing work done by people who "piggy back" off of other's ideas. But I guess they don't deserve respect.

Also seeing as how this is non profit and money is being donated, I don't see any evidence to support this being illegal. None of the finished product is going to sold afterwards. Hell, it's just a trailer. It's no different then the Street Fighter fan movie. He is doing it for the fans and they(clearly) want to see it come to light.

Jesus, you obviously did not read a word of this discussion besides that one post. The "piggyback" aspect is about the fact that these producers do NOT own the rights to do this and are clearly in no position to do this. So to advance their positions, they are taking a known brand and attaching their name to it.

There is a CLEAR line of what is a privately funded fan trailer and what is a publicly funded and publicly released fan trailer.

If you HONESTLY, can not see any evidence of how this is illegal, please do yourself a favor and read the multiple posts I was kind enough to make in this discussion already. Don't just pop in here and try to compare this to your fan-art and such and accuse me of not liking the anime. I was watching it while you were in diapers. Plus, if you listed YOUR fan-art on a donation site, that's different because A) you wholely created it. B) your not asking for it upfront. C) Donations are made because of appeal of your OWN work.

These guys got an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of their donations simply for using footage from the series and created nothing original of any kind that clearly helped promote this project.

As an artist, you should know that you can't just go up to people and say "I'll draw you a picture of Goku for $20"
The potential customer would obviously want to see prior work or some sort of confidence draw.

These guys are basically saying "We'll make a Dragon Ball Z Trailer for $$$!"
Potential Customers (Donators?! Yup): "Well let's see what you have done in the past"
Producers: "Just weddings"
Customers: "Well whats it going to be like?"
Producers: "Like this!!" (Insert ACTUAL Toei/FUNi owned footage of series used to SELL)

It is essentially the same as if you got your customer to pay that $20 for a picture of Goku by saying its going to look like a picture you show them of Goku NOT drawn by you. Which would mean you'd be doing what? Copying.

That's exactly what these Producers did and will probably get slammed by the big guys for it eventually because they asked for A LOT more than $20.

[thefatman13]

Part of they money they made goes to getting the rights.

[Jackal puFF]

Huh? You can't just go buying the rights. No one would sell them the rights just for a 4 minute trailer.

Seeing how much attention it's getting, I would be super surprised if they didn't get any kind of legal action happen to them.

Oh, I just rewatched the animated trailer again and Yamcha is only in like two scenes. Less than one second scenes, lol.

[thefatman13]

No I mean, part of the money they made from the funding project goes to getting what ever rights they need to make their movie. That includes trailers. The trailer with clips from the actual show is probably illegal but every thing else is fine. It's not any different then what Twentieth Century Fox did with Evolution other then the fact it is being done by people who seem to be doing it right. Any one with money can get the rights to make a Dragon Ball film. And Most likely they asked if they could get the rights to do it before they even started their funding project so they could factor that price into what they needed to make.

[DerekPadula]

No I mean, part of the money they made from the funding project goes to getting what ever rights they need to make their movie. That includes trailers. The trailer with clips from the actual show is probably illegal but every thing else is fine. It's not any different then what Twentieth Century Fox did with Evolution other then the fact it is being done by people who seem to be doing it right. Any one with money can get the rights to make a Dragon Ball film. And Most likely they asked if they could get the rights to do it before they even started their funding project so they could factor that price into what they needed to make.

They didn't do that at all. FUNimation didn't know about it and I'm guessing that neither did any of the European license holders.

It's not the case that anybody with money can get the license. It's a business deal like any other, and requires time, effort and connections. It's especially difficult because it's such a big property and the Japanese are wary of giving it to just anybody.

All Dragon Ball license requests have to go through either the parent company or region licensee, such as FUNimation for the United States, who will forward it to Toei or Shueisha. K & K did not do that, nor did they plan for any of this in the fundraising.

The initial plan was to do it all on their own. Then they started the IndieGogo page and the goal was for $5,000, dedicated entirely to the filming of the trailer. They received 3 times as much and decided to use it improve the trailer even further, such as paying for wire work on a major film studio lot.

It is not a licensed project in any way, shape or form.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Jesus, you obviously did not read a word of this discussion besides that one post. The "piggyback" aspect is about the fact that these producers do NOT own the rights to do this and are clearly in no position to do this. So to advance their positions, they are taking a known brand and attaching their name to it.

There is a CLEAR line of what is a privately funded fan trailer and what is a publicly funded and publicly released fan trailer.

If you HONESTLY, can not see any evidence of how this is illegal, please do yourself a favor and read the multiple posts I was kind enough to make in this discussion already. Don't just pop in here and try to compare this to your fan-art and such and accuse me of not liking the anime. I was watching it while you were in diapers. Plus, if you listed YOUR fan-art on a donation site, that's different because A) you wholely created it. B) your not asking for it upfront. C) Donations are made because of appeal of your OWN work.

These guys got an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of their donations simply for using footage from the series and created nothing original of any kind that clearly helped promote this project.

As an artist, you should know that you can't just go up to people and say "I'll draw you a picture of Goku for $20"
The potential customer would obviously want to see prior work or some sort of confidence draw.

These guys are basically saying "We'll make a Dragon Ball Z Trailer for $$$!"
Potential Customers (Donators?! Yup): "Well let's see what you have done in the past"
Producers: "Just weddings"
Customers: "Well whats it going to be like?"
Producers: "Like this!!" (Insert ACTUAL Toei/FUNi owned footage of series used to SELL)

It is essentially the same as if you got your customer to pay that $20 for a picture of Goku by saying its going to look like a picture you show them of Goku NOT drawn by you. Which would mean you'd be doing what? Copying.

That's exactly what these Producers did and will probably get slammed by the big guys for it eventually because they asked for A LOT more than $20.

Ok, well I feel that I shouldn't have to say this(especially on this site) but the personal attacks are unessasary. "I was watching anime while you where in diapers?" Come on man, what is that?

Now, I have been reading your posts and your argument falls flat in two places. One you are treating their project as if they were re-distributing the anime. They aren't. While yes, they did originally use the anime to splice up a fake trailer it was used as sort of a visual script for fans and investors. They didn't have footage at the time and this is was there way of seeing this is what we want to do and this is how we want to do it. This is normal in the film industry and I don't see anything wrong with it; especially since they have been following up since then with behind the scenes photos and videos to show you their progress.

The original trailer was to put faith in the fans, and it worked. I don't think random strangers across the internet would have handed them a cent if they didn't feel like these guys could deliver. Yes they only have weddings on their Youtube page but at least there is something for people to see to at least hey they are a real production company and not some schmuck with windows movie maker and d-grade editing skills. These guys provide outlets for you to see their other work, as small as it may be, and give you a chance to decide for yourself if they are worth your money. In that sense, it is just like if I were to get an art commission. Without knowing what my final drawing might end up being both I and the people paying me are willing to make a deal based off of previous work. If they find that work suitable, they give me the money I give them the drawing.

All they said was, hey as Dragonball fans we were displeased with Evolution, we want to see if we can do something better. If we were going to do this however, we would need your help. At any point people could had just brushed it off and walked away, but they liked what they saw; both in the mock trailer and older work. Through all this, I don't see how this trailer would hurt Funimation or Toei. If anything it's going to help. They are only making a trailer, and people are going to want more. How are they going to get it? Through the anime, manga and video games. This project has fans(old and new) buzzing. Hell, it brought you here! Whose to say you won't stick around, and get the urge to buy a Dragonbox or something? In what way does this one trailer hurt the potential sales of anything Dragonball other then Evolution(which lets face it, isn't really swimming in money).

Hell, if this blows up and becomes something. These guys can take their work, show it to Fox(owners of the movie rights) and say "look we made this for fun. We were backed by fans and got a huge response. We'd like to, with your help, take this a step further and make something bigger." In that scenario everyone wins. At worse they fail, people will undoubtedly be upset(just look at the Saiyan armor reaction) and that's something they will have to answer for. I'm sure they knew that risk going into this though. I'm sure fans knew that risk when they handed over the money. And if they didn't, well that's their problem not yours and they'll learn their lesson for next time.

[Pafupafu]

Now, I have been reading your posts and your argument falls flat in two places. One you are treating their project as if they were re-distributing the anime. They aren't. While yes, they did originally use the anime to splice up a fake trailer it was used as sort of a visual script for fans and investors. They didn't have footage at the time and this is was there way of seeing this is what we want to do and this is how we want to do it. This is normal in the film industry and I don't see anything wrong with it; especially since they have been following up since then with behind the scenes photos and videos to show you their progress.

The original trailer was to put faith in the fans, and it worked. I don't think random strangers across the internet would have handed them a cent if they didn't feel like these guys could deliver. Yes they only have weddings on their Youtube page but at least there is something for people to see to at least hey they are a real production company and not some schmuck with windows movie maker and d-grade editing skills. These guys provide outlets for you to see their other work, as small as it may be, and give you a chance to decide for yourself if they are worth your money. In that sense, it is just like if I were to get an art commission. Without knowing what my final drawing might end up being both I and the people paying me are willing to make a deal based off of previous work. If they find that work suitable, they give me the money I give them the drawing.

You just confirmed my point. Their previous personal work display was at an absolute minimum. Their only "selling point" which was substantial and led to the "behind the scenes" you mentioned, was a trailer which featured copyright infringing material. That's illegal, even in the film industry (which I work in). Plain and simple.

[Insertclevername]

Are they selling it or something? because if not, then its not illegal, same goes for all the fan arts, fan mangas and even abridged series.

[Pafupafu]

Are they selling it or something? because if not, then its not illegal, same goes for all the fan arts, fan mangas and even abridged series.

What they are selling was a copyright infringing trailer on IndieGoGo and they got $15,000. The big guys will handle it eventually.

[thefatman13]

then its not illegal, same goes for all the fan arts, fan mangas and even abridged series.

That's not true. Fan art gets taken off deviant art and other site like it all the time even though its not really illegal. All it takes is someone reporting it which is quite common. And abridged series are illegal for the same reason posting a Dragon Ball Z AMV is. Why do you think all of team 4 stars videos were taken down and they had to make their own site. Toei and Funimation can get their site taken down which would suck.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Are they selling it or something? because if not, then its not illegal, same goes for all the fan arts, fan mangas and even abridged series.

What they are selling was a copyright infringing trailer on IndieGoGo and they got $15,000. The big guys will handle it eventually.

They posted a template trailer and got $15,000 to make the real thing. You are really twisting things around in this sense. There was no sale, there was no profit. The money given to them went into making the movie. They wanted to put out a fanfilm with industry level quality. The donations went into set locations, wire works, and access to green screens and so forth; stuff that wouldn't have been available otherwise. Stop thinking of it as a company/customer relationship and start thinking about it as a partnership between film makers and investors; because that's what Kickstarter and Indiegogo is all about. It's a partnership between people who want to do something and people have the money and desire to help out. There is nothing illegal about any of that. You're right, let the big guys handle it; no need to be a one man army. Have fun and focus on your movie while you let them do the same.

That's not true. Fan art gets taken off deviant art and other site like it all the time even though its not really illegal. All it takes is someone reporting it which is quite common.

No see that's not true. Here is their submission policy:
http://about.deviantart.com/policy/submission/
If you report something, it get's reviewed by a moderator and if they feel it crosses any lines(stolen pics, pornographic imagery, etc.) then they pull it. There is plenty of fan art on DA; it's littered with it. Hell check out my gallery in my sig(shameless self promotion!) I have tons of fanart and never had anything pulled.

Also, here is TFD's youtube page alive and kicking!
http://www.youtube.com/user/teamfoursta ... sults_main

[thefatman13]

Has anyone actually filed a report on you?

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Not to my knowledge. If they have, no mod has felt the need to remove my stuff. It's all anonymous so I don't know about any reporting being done to me.

[thefatman13]

It's anon but you get a message saying what picture is under review.