Daizenshuu 7 on Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others

[SaiyanZ]

Because of his weakness in using SSJ3 on Earth, nothing else. Why he didn't use it? Because Toriyama didn't write it that way.

Again, the story makes it pretty clear that Evil Boo outstrips SS3 and it isn't because of some location orientated weakness of SS3. Don't use "Toriyama didn't write it that way" as an excuse because there is no in universe reason for Goku to want to be permanently merged with Vegeta if he can just IT Boo away and defeat him on his own.

Also, would it kill you to edit your posts rather than triple posting?

Then don't say that Goku should've done this or that. He doesn't have that power, its AT who makes him do what he does.

I'm new here so I have no idea how things work lol

[Saiga]

Then don't say that Goku should've done this or that. He doesn't have that power, its AT who makes him do what he does.

What do you mean? He does have the power to transport himself and Boo instantly to the Kaioshin realm. Shunkan-Ido/Instant Transmission.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Not really. Goku went from "OMG. His power is rising!" to laughing when he reverts to Kid Boo. They underestimated him but were still convinced he wasn't an opponent they (Goku) couldn't beat. That implies Super Boo is more powerful than Kid Boo, and since Mega Boo is more poweful than him, Kid Boo comes out weaker. The one that weakened him was Dai Kaioshin.

With this laughing clearly being revoked on Chap. 510, Pgs. 12-13 where they admit they were wrong about underestimating him. Vegeta did the same thing against Cell after he absorbed Android 18

Know the difference? Cell beat Vegeta's ass, proving him wrong. Kid Boo didn't beat Goku down. The fight was even. They underestimated him, but even after seeing him in action, both Vegeta and Goku were still convinced Super Saiyan 3 was enough to finish him off. Super Boo, on the otherhand? Fighting without fusion wasn't an option.

[012yArthur0]

Well, the only evidence I know of Kid Buu> Super Buu is a really vague one.

Is the fact that "Goku wanted to give his kids a go" implying that he was trying his best to don't fight on Majin Buu, just working behind-the-scenes when he can. Since he was taking down Majin Buu with relatively ease while he was having problems with Kid Buu (Altough if he could beat him or not is a clouded state in fact). Also, his "Fight-a-holic" style completely means he won't be scared by Super Buu. Why Super Buu would be a exception? Then wouldn't he run away from frieza like a scared girl in the Frieza Saga?

However, Mystic Gohan being the strongest Non-fused character, + Absorption facts completely destroys the Kid Buu> Super Buu evidence. Since they are more than enough to prove that Super Buu> Kid Buu.

I always like to bring all possible cases to the talk though, since the topics is not only to share opinions, but try to reveal something hidden, which is usually the truth that we always looking for it. That's why the "neutral eyes" between them.

[Zephyr]

If that were the case, he wouldn't have been so surprised when he said "What's going on?" when trying to muster up ki to finish Kid Buu. The fact that he said that, means that he didn't know what type of body he had had any effect on him sustaining a SSJ3.

He knew using it alive had significant drain, he was just caught off guard by just how much drain it had. Because, you know, he'd never used the form with a living body before.

[SaiyanZ]

Then don't say that Goku should've done this or that. He doesn't have that power, its AT who makes him do what he does.

What do you mean? He does have the power to transport himself and Boo instantly to the Kaioshin realm. Shunkan-Ido/Instant Transmission.

No no no, you're not getting me. He has that power and of course its feasible, but it didn't happen because Toriyama didn't write it that way. Saying that Goku should've done this but he didn't does not mean Goku < Super Buu. If I go by your reasoning, then Gohan should've killed Super Buu. You see what I'm saying? You can't say that this should've happened to prove a point.

[Saiga]

No no no, you're not getting me. He has that power and of course its feasible, but it didn't happen because Toriyama didn't write it that way. Saying that Goku should've done this but he didn't does not mean Goku < Super Buu. If I go by your reasoning, then Gohan should've killed Super Buu. You see what I'm saying? You can't say that this should've happened to prove a point.

No, I CAN say that. What's the in universe reason for Goku preferring a permanent fusion as opposed to teleporting Boo away with him? There is none. Gohan lost to Boo because Boo absorbed Gotenks. That's the in universe reason.

[SaiyanZ]

Not really. Goku went from "OMG. His power is rising!" to laughing when he reverts to Kid Boo. They underestimated him but were still convinced he wasn't an opponent they (Goku) couldn't beat. That implies Super Boo is more powerful than Kid Boo, and since Mega Boo is more poweful than him, Kid Boo comes out weaker. The one that weakened him was Dai Kaioshin.

With this laughing clearly being revoked on Chap. 510, Pgs. 12-13 where they admit they were wrong about underestimating him. Vegeta did the same thing against Cell after he absorbed Android 18

Know the difference? Cell beat Vegeta's ass, proving him wrong. Kid Boo didn't beat Goku down. The fight was even. They underestimated him, but even after seeing him in action, both Vegeta and Goku were still convinced Super Saiyan 3 was enough to finish him off. Super Boo, on the otherhand? Fighting without fusion wasn't an option.

And Kid Buu didn't beat Goku's or Vegeta's? Goku himself said on Chap. 510, Pg. 13 that Kid Buu is "just playing around to drag it out". Vegeta got owned too when trying to stall for Goku's 1 min

[Darkprince410]

And Kid Buu didn't beat Goku's or Vegeta's? Goku himself said on Chap. 510, Pg. 13 that Kid Buu is "just playing around to drag it out". Vegeta got owned too when trying to stall for Goku's 1 min

It's widely accepted that, given the context of how he said it, he was playing around specifically at that moment, when he's sitting there in a still semi-gelatinous state dancing around rather than regenerating completely following Goku's attack.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

And Kid Buu didn't beat Goku's or Vegeta's? Goku himself said on Chap. 510, Pg. 13 that Kid Buu is "just playing around to drag it out". Vegeta got owned too when trying to stall for Goku's 1 min

He didn't beat Goku's ass. The battle was pretty even. They matched each other. Kid Boo was definitely stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta, but he and Super Saiyan 3 Goku were on-par with each other. Neither was able to overtake the other. Kid Boo did have the advantage, however, since his stamina was never dropping. And yeah, Goku was referring to him dragging out his regeneration:

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.6-7
Context: after one of Goku’s attacks damages Boo
Goku: “That bastard…Even though he can quickly return to normal, he’s playing around by purposefully drawing it out…”
*Boo is clearly lollygagging*

[SaiyanZ]

No no no, you're not getting me. He has that power and of course its feasible, but it didn't happen because Toriyama didn't write it that way. Saying that Goku should've done this but he didn't does not mean Goku < Super Buu. If I go by your reasoning, then Gohan should've killed Super Buu. You see what I'm saying? You can't say that this should've happened to prove a point.

No, I CAN say that. What's the in universe reason for Goku preferring a permanent fusion as opposed to teleporting Boo away with him? There is none. Gohan lost to Boo because Boo absorbed Gotenks. That's the in universe reason.

With Buu already having Piccolo's brain, and Goku having told Piccolo that SSJ3 should only be used in afterlife, do you think Buu will allow himself to be teleported? There is no way Goku would get that chance. Of course fusion will be the only chance they get.

[Saiga]

With Buu already having Piccolo's brain, and Goku having told Piccolo that SSJ3 should only be used in afterlife, do you think Buu will allow himself to be teleported? There is no way Goku would get that chance. Of course fusion will be the only chance they get.

...yes, he will. He just needs to touch him to do it.

And they removed Piccolo anyway.

[SaiyanZ]

And Kid Buu didn't beat Goku's or Vegeta's? Goku himself said on Chap. 510, Pg. 13 that Kid Buu is "just playing around to drag it out". Vegeta got owned too when trying to stall for Goku's 1 min

He didn't beat Goku's ass. The battle was pretty even. They matched each other. Kid Boo was definitely stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta, but he and Super Saiyan 3 Goku were on-par with each other. Neither was able to overtake the other. Kid Boo did have the advantage, however, since his stamina was never dropping. And yeah, Goku was referring to him dragging out his regeneration:

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.6-7
Context: after one of Goku’s attacks damages Boo
Goku: “That bastard…Even though he can quickly return to normal, he’s playing around by purposefully drawing it out…”
*Boo is clearly lollygagging*

And Kid Buu didn't beat Goku's or Vegeta's? Goku himself said on Chap. 510, Pg. 13 that Kid Buu is "just playing around to drag it out". Vegeta got owned too when trying to stall for Goku's 1 min

It's widely accepted that, given the context of how he said it, he was playing around specifically at that moment, when he's sitting there in a still semi-gelatinous state dancing around rather than regenerating completely following Goku's attack.

But Buu did have the advantage right? So in that case, he was still winning. Meaning my point stands.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

No way

The fight was still even. Boo's stamina just made it hard for Goku to get around. Super Saiyan 3 was more of a problem for Goku in that battle than Boo.

[SaiyanZ]

With Buu already having Piccolo's brain, and Goku having told Piccolo that SSJ3 should only be used in afterlife, do you think Buu will allow himself to be teleported? There is no way Goku would get that chance. Of course fusion will be the only chance they get.

...yes, he will. He just needs to touch him to do it.

And they removed Piccolo anyway.

This still isn't a valid argument you are making though. If I were to use what you are doing, then what is the in-universe reason for Gohan not killing Super Buu?

[SaiyanZ]

No way

The fight was still even. Boo's stamina just made it hard for Goku to get around. Super Saiyan 3 was more of a problem for Goku in that battle than Boo.

No, Goku himself said that whatever he did Buu came back as new. He was making no progress

[Saiga]

This still isn't a valid argument you are making though. If I were to use what you are doing, then what is the in-universe reason for Gohan not killing Super Buu?

Boo successfully stalling for time and absorbing Gotenks to become stronger.

[SaiyanZ]

This still isn't a valid argument you are making though. If I were to use what you are doing, then what is the in-universe reason for Gohan not killing Super Buu?

Boo successfully stalling for time and absorbing Gotenks to become stronger.

Ok, so then I can say the in-universe reason for Goku not teleporting to Other World is Kid Buu fighting Goku later so he can die via Spirit Bomb

[Saiga]

Ok, so then I can say the in-universe reason for Goku not teleporting to Other World is Kid Buu fighting Goku later so he can die via Spirit Bomb

No. Now you're just being facetious. The reason Gohan didn't kill Boo is because he didn't get a chance - as soon as he showed he was stronger than Boo, Boo self destructed and then absorbed Gotenks, thus gaining the advantage. That's all in-universe facts.

[SaiyanZ]

Ok, so then I can say the in-universe reason for Goku not teleporting to Other World is Kid Buu fighting Goku later so he can die via Spirit Bomb

No. Now you're just being facetious. The reason Gohan didn't kill Boo is because he didn't get a chance - as soon as he showed he was stronger than Boo, Boo self destructed and then absorbed Gotenks, thus gaining the advantage. That's all in-universe facts.

I bolded this part because this is just ridiculous. Gohan could've killed him from the very start of Chap. 498. If not then, then definitely when fighting in 497.

And Kid Buu fighting Goku later in Other World is also an in-universe fact. I'm not trying to be facetious, sorry if I'm coming across that way. This happened because that happened. And why did such things happen? Because that was what Toriyama wrote.