Is GT Episode #63 the darkest in the entrie series?

[Nex Carnifex]

I agree with GT #63 being the darkest. I've actually thought that for a while.

In any other point in the series there always seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, Piccolo Daimao is defeating everyone left and right...but we see Goku surviving and getting stronger. Yeah, the androids just defeated even Super Saiyan Vegeta...but Goku is taking Trunks' medicine and can recover. And in most of those situations (excluding Piccolo Daimao) we always had the Dragon Balls to kinda fall back on.

In GT episode 63, everyone has been defeated. Goku has been defeated and left for dead. The planet is covered in Minus Energy and dying. Everyone (Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, Goten) ACCEPTS their fate, accepts defeat, and goes to stall for time to allow the others to get out of the planet. Except they're not even strong enough to do that. Vegeta is left defeated on the ground, next to Goku's supposed grave, with a huge hole in his shoulder. At this point, you don't even consider falling back on the Dragon Balls, because THAT'S what they're fighting against. (Until Goku says he can't die yet and rises with the biggest Genki Dama ever to save the day.)To me, that was the worse case, apocalyptic, lose-lose kinda scenario that I can't really compare with any other point in the series.

I like how you say biggest Genki Dama when it was actually the 2nd smallest.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

....what? I'm not sure where you are looking at, but that Genki-Dama is largest ever created.

[Rukura]

I like how you say biggest Genki Dama when it was actually the 2nd smallest.

Second smallest? Okay, I'll bite. Tell more about how either the one done in Kaio's planet or the one against Vegeta is bigger than that one (Just messing with ya. You meant second biggest, right?)

Regardless (of how the well the animation fails to show it in some recicled shots), it is indeed (and is meant to be) the biggest Genki Dama.

Which is the biggest? The one that had energy from Earth and Namek (mostly) or the one with energy from the entire universe (that, just to clarify, includes Earth and Namek)?

[Nex Carnifex]

I like how you say biggest Genki Dama when it was actually the 2nd smallest.

Second smallest? Okay, I'll bite. Tell more about how either the one done in Kaio's planet or the one against Vegeta is bigger than that one (Just messing with ya. You meant second biggest, right?)

Regardless (of how the well the animation fails to show it in some recicled shots), it is indeed (and is meant to be) the biggest Genki Dama.

Which is the biggest? The one that had energy from Earth and Namek (mostly) or the one with energy from the entire universe (that, just to clarify, includes Earth and Namek)?

The one on Kaio's planet is bigger it looks like to me, or maybe its just that the size is extremely inconsistent in every scene (the gt bomb).

[Rukura]

The one on Kaio's planet is bigger it looks like to me

I'm not sure if it's even bigger than Yamcha's Sokidan. That's how big that one is.

or maybe its just that the size is extremely inconsistent in every scene (the gt bomb).

There's a lot of frame recycling of Goku holding it from before it got bigger (GT animation hard at work). In the final sequences, when it's finally being used, it shows a lot better how big it is.

Also, logic. It gets easier when you stop to realize how much energy each has. (And that every Genki Dama was always bigger than the previous)

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

The one on Kaio's planet is bigger it looks like to me.

No, it's not.

[Nex Carnifex]

The one on Kaio's planet is bigger it looks like to me

I'm not sure if it's even bigger than Yamcha's Sokidan. That's how big that one is.

or maybe its just that the size is extremely inconsistent in every scene (the gt bomb).

There's a lot of frame recycling of Goku holding it from before it got bigger (GT animation hard at work). In the final sequences, when it's finally being used, it shows a lot better how big it is.

Also, logic. It gets easier when you stop to realize how much energy each has. (And that every Genki Dama was always bigger than the previous)

Wait I'm thinking of the one that killed Kid Buu, I guess that's the Kai planet, wtvr. Yeah at least anime wise that one looked bigger when Goku was holding it, when Goku throws the one in GT it somehow gets a lot bigger.

[Cipher]

Re: Genki Dama sizes

I think part of the problem is, besides the animation being a bit inconsistent in both cases, we don't have a great frame of reference for the one on the Kaioshin planet. It looks absolutely enormous when Goku's holding it, but there are other shots when Boo is walking with it and he actually seems fairly big compared to it. And the rest of the scenery is fairly useless.

What we do know, though, is that the one used against Yi Xing Long is shown to be bigger than a major city in establishing shots (we see it compared to skyscrapers, even), and leaves a trail as wide as said city and (presumably) several miles long.

Think about how big a city is and how tall skyscrapers are. That sucka's huge. (So big the logistics of it not killing Goku's friends and family don't make any sense, actually. But whatever, Dragon Ball.)

[Nex Carnifex]

Re: Genki Dama sizes

I think part of the problem is, besides the animation being a bit inconsistent in both cases, we don't have a great frame of reference for the one on the Kaioshin planet. It looks absolutely enormous when Goku's holding it, but there are other shots when Boo is walking with it and he actually seems fairly big compared to it. And the rest of the scenery is fairly useless.

What we do know, though, is that the one used against Yi Xing Long is shown to be bigger than a major city in establishing shots (we see it compared to skyscrapers, even), and leaves a trail as wide as said city and (presumably) several miles long.

Think about how big a city is and how tall skyscrapers are. That sucka's huge. (So big the logistics of it not killing Goku's friends and family don't make any sense, actually. But whatever, Dragon Ball.)

yeah when he's holding it fully charged it looks tiny, then he throws it it still looks fairly small, then cut to far away shot it grew 500 times in 1 second.

[perucho1990]

I agree with GT #63 being the darkest. I've actually thought that for a while.

In any other point in the series there always seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, Piccolo Daimao is defeating everyone left and right...but we see Goku surviving and getting stronger. Yeah, the androids just defeated even Super Saiyan Vegeta...but Goku is taking Trunks' medicine and can recover. And in most of those situations (excluding Piccolo Daimao) we always had the Dragon Balls to kinda fall back on.

In GT episode 63, everyone has been defeated. Goku has been defeated and left for dead. The planet is covered in Minus Energy and dying. Everyone (Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, Goten) ACCEPTS their fate, accepts defeat, and goes to stall for time to allow the others to get out of the planet. Except they're not even strong enough to do that. Vegeta is left defeated on the ground, next to Goku's supposed grave, with a huge hole in his shoulder. At this point, you don't even consider falling back on the Dragon Balls, because THAT'S what they're fighting against. (Until Goku says he can't die yet and rises with the biggest Genki Dama ever to save the day.)To me, that was the worse case, apocalyptic, lose-lose kinda scenario that I can't really compare with any other point in the series.

In other words, It was a Bleach-style fight.

No offense but GT Goku is a worse character than Ichigo and barely better than Satochi aka Ash, which is sad.

[Rukura]

In other words, It was a Bleach-style fight.

No. Not at all, actually. Did the fight with Yi Xing Long drag on for 2 years (real world time), one chapter/episode per week to the point where it lost its purpose? Did Goku go through some instant microwave training and get some bullcrap new technique that breaks all logic while in that hole? How was it a "Bleach-style" fight? How was it THAT much different from Dragon Ball fights, besides some of the mood and setting?

No offense but GT Goku is a worse character than Ichigo and barely better than Satochi aka Ash, which is sad.

GT Goku, as a character, is the same Goku we've always had so I really don't know where you think you're coming from with that comparison (perhaps you could have elaborated on that?), even more so with a character that got zero development, like Ichigo, and one that has been written to never grow up and always be a noob despite being a League Champion in four regions, like Satoshi.

I do see bad storytelling in Dragon Ball GT...but I don't recall a moment that made me go "Goku wouldn't have done that" or "would have done that vastly differently".

[Saiga]

I don't see why this needs to go into dissing Bleach, it's not even relevant.

[DBZAOTA482]

GT Goku, as a character, is the same Goku we've always had so I really don't know where you think you're coming from with that comparison (perhaps you could have elaborated on that?), even more so with a character that got zero development, like Ichigo, and one that has been written to never grow up and always be a noob despite being a League Champion in four regions, like Satoshi.

GT Goku is really, really cocky and is a jokester that doesn't his job seriously.

[Ringworm128]

I agree with GT #63 being the darkest. I've actually thought that for a while.

In any other point in the series there always seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, Piccolo Daimao is defeating everyone left and right...but we see Goku surviving and getting stronger. Yeah, the androids just defeated even Super Saiyan Vegeta...but Goku is taking Trunks' medicine and can recover. And in most of those situations (excluding Piccolo Daimao) we always had the Dragon Balls to kinda fall back on.

In GT episode 63, everyone has been defeated. Goku has been defeated and left for dead. The planet is covered in Minus Energy and dying. Everyone (Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, Goten) ACCEPTS their fate, accepts defeat, and goes to stall for time to allow the others to get out of the planet. Except they're not even strong enough to do that. Vegeta is left defeated on the ground, next to Goku's supposed grave, with a huge hole in his shoulder. At this point, you don't even consider falling back on the Dragon Balls, because THAT'S what they're fighting against. (Until Goku says he can't die yet and rises with the biggest Genki Dama ever to save the day.)To me, that was the worse case, apocalyptic, lose-lose kinda scenario that I can't really compare with any other point in the series.

Darkest and destructive scene was Ii-Shenlong is trying to destroy the universe and Earth after putting Goku down just as depicted at 2:09 to end in the scenes such as Saiyan-Tsufuru wars, Vegeta sacrificing himself, Kid Buu destroying the Earth, Gero/Myu opening up Hell, Piccolo Daimao Arc, and Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta and Namek combined as one tower blew up from the LOTR film causing an earthquake.

No seriously, I had to re-read that just to make sure I wasn't imagining it.

[Saiyajin no Tatsujin]

I forget the number and title of the episode. But for me, the darkest scene in GT was when everyone was at Kami's lookout, all happy (I think it might've been right after Baby was defeated), and Popo walks out saying that the Dragon Balls are not there. The music was so eerie, and suspenseful. I really got chills because of it. It just seemed like a real shocker for the situation at the time. I think the Earth was about to be destroyed within a couple days because of this too. And Goku decided to teleport everyone on Earth to Baby's planet.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Rocketman]

It is pretty damn dark and one of the best episodes of GT, but the fact that they could've ended it instantly with Gogeta really hurts it.

Vegetto breaking up (ie, what they're ripping off in GT) wasn't a smart move, but it was at least completely unexpected. If you know you're on a time limit, and you know you're against a super regenerator that can curbstomp you with no effort, and you know that the enemy's mere existence is killing your homeworld and you still fuck around with PARTY POPPERS TEE HEE, you deserve to get your shit wrecked.

[Saiga]

It is pretty damn dark and one of the best episodes of GT, but the fact that they could've ended it instantly with Gogeta really hurts it.

Vegetto breaking up (ie, what they're ripping off in GT) wasn't a smart move, but it was at least completely unexpected. If you know you're on a time limit, and you know you're against a super regenerator that can curbstomp you with no effort, and you know that the enemy's mere existence is killing your homeworld and you still fuck around with PARTY POPPERS TEE HEE, you deserve to get your shit wrecked.

Even worse how they portray him perfectly in movie 12: Serious, doesn't fuck around and immediately finishes the villain. And then in GT they just want a Vegetto rip off.

[Piccolo Daimao]

It is pretty damn dark and one of the best episodes of GT, but the fact that they could've ended it instantly with Gogeta really hurts it.

Vegetto breaking up (ie, what they're ripping off in GT) wasn't a smart move, but it was at least completely unexpected. If you know you're on a time limit, and you know you're against a super regenerator that can curbstomp you with no effort, and you know that the enemy's mere existence is killing your homeworld and you still fuck around with PARTY POPPERS TEE HEE, you deserve to get your shit wrecked.

Even worse how they portray him perfectly in movie 12: Serious, doesn't fuck around and immediately finishes the villain. And then in GT they just want a Vegetto rip off.

And literally the only reason Vegetto acted cocky against Boo in the first place was to provoke him into absorbing him. So there's absolutely no reason for Gogeta to fuck around here.

[Necrosaber]

Must all GT related topics turn into some kinda bashing of the series?

[VegettoEX]

Must all GT related topics turn into some kinda bashing of the series?

If you're not interested in a critical analysis of portions of the series, you probably shouldn't be reading any threads about the series ever by fans who love it so much.