The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[shonenhikada]

Not exactly, technically Yamcha died fighting the Saibaiman, who is said to rivals Raditz. In that sense, Yamcha wasn't shown to surpass the former villain, but that he was capable of fighting on his own against him.

Technically Yamcha was shown to curbstomp the saiberman without breaking a sweat or using his full power. This cause the saiberman to become so desperate to win that it had to use a kamikaze attack while Yamcha had his back turn; the blast of the attack was hinted to be so powerful that it would have killed krillin who was shown later at full power to exterminate most of the saiberman. If the saiberman didn't do that, Vegeta would of just killed it in the end for losing to Yamcha, and not using its full power in the same manner to the previous Saibermen, that fought Tien.

Btw PL of 1480 isn't Yamcha max PL, it is just the PL he used to fight the saiberman at, but it should be noted that it is weaker than the PL that Tien use to fight the saiberman at indicating who is stronger than the two. In order to determine Yamcha max pl we would need to get a reading for his PL while doing the spirit ball.

[Fox666]

Wasn't Kuririn "around 1,500" on Namek? I hardly believe 1,480 would not be Yamcha's maximum strength.

[In Brightest Day]

Yamcha (post Kami training) vs Raditz.

Who would be more disappointing?

Yamcha's losses all came about because he was fighting someone far stronger than himself, while Raditz managed to find a way to lose to two guys not even half his power. As always with this fight, Yamcha wins.

[Saiga]

Yamcha (post Kami training) vs Raditz.

Who would be more disappointing?

Yamcha definitely loses. The Daizenshuu confirms that he'll find a way.

But in all seriousness, yes he'd lose. He's just weaker than Raditz and Raditz has shown far more destructive techniques.

[Edward Newgate]

I'd bet on Radits. Honestly he was more impressive against Goku and Piccolo (although they were weaker), then Yamcha was against the Saibaman. Radits just... fought better, not to mention that he is more impressive Ki attacks wise.

[shonenhikada]

Wasn't Kuririn "around 1,500" on Namek? I hardly believe 1,480 would not be Yamcha's maximum strength.

The power level is daizenshuu are the power levels at different instances in the manga, not necessarily their max power unless you seriously think Nappa max PL is 4000.

Raditz PL is not 1500. This contradicts with the manga.

[Kaboom]

Yamcha Vs Raditz:

More Power: Raditz (Albeit by a negligible amount)
More Prone To Failure: Tie.
More Combat Skillz: Yamcha by a long shot.

Taking character-based stupidity out of it, I think Yamcha would be the winner here.

[DBZAOTA482]

Raditz wins.

Yamcha is Toriyama's whipping boy so he loses by default.

[Fox666]

Raditz PL is not 1500. This contradicts with the manga.

No it doesn't.

[shonenhikada]

Raditz PL is not 1500. This contradicts with the manga.

No it doesn't.

Actually it does. it have been shown numerous times in the series that when a fighter has a power level higher, or equal to an attack they are able to tank said ki base attack. E.g. When Goku uses his kamehamha x 20 against Freeza at 50% Freeza is shown to tank the attack without showing any signs of damage, Freeza in his second form was shown to take the brunt of piccolo's energy attack while the latter was in his second form, Recoome survived vegeta's flash without any noticealbe piece of damage.

Yet when Piccolo fired his first Special Beam cannon which had a PL of 1,330, Raditz was shown to be worried, and actually tries to doge the attack instead of trying to tank it,showing noticeable damage in the process, he even claims the attack would haven taken him out. Before you go saying, but the Special Beam cannon is a piercing attack. Raditz didn't know this since he's never met the attack before. Then their is also Gohan PL of 1,307.

Nappa's line on the Saibaimen's strength is often translated as saying that they are "equal" to Raditz. While the verb 'hitteki suru' can be translated as "equal", it doesn't mean equal in any sort of mathematical sense, but just that something is roughly on par with something else. In his memo to the anime staff published in the DragonBall Z Anime Special, Toriyama confirmed that the Saibaimen's battle power is inferior to Raditz's, saying "But their battle power is considerably high, at a level slightly inferior to Raditz" (し かし 戦 闘 力 は か な り 高 くラ ディッツ よ り 少 し 劣 る 程 度). Also, Nappa mentions that the Saibaimen rival Raditz "going just by power", so it seems that Raditz's greater intelligence gives him something of an edge over the Saibaimen, who are barely smart enough to follow simple orders.

So in short Raditz PL is between 1200-1300. If Raditz had a PL of 1500, he would not have been considered slightly superior to the saiberman but just straight up superior. A PL gap of 300 equals to a percentage difference of 20%, which would make it impossible for the Saiberman to challenge raditz and even win, so their would be no rivalry there.

[Fox666]

Actually it does. it have been shown numerous times in the series that when a fighter has a power level higher, or equal to an attack they are able to tank said ki base attack. E.g. When Goku uses his kamehamha x 20 against Freeza at 50% Freeza is shown to tank the attack without showing any signs of damage, Freeza in his second form was shown to take the brunt of piccolo's energy attack while the latter was in his second form, Recoome survived vegeta's flash without any noticealbe piece of damage.

The series is mostly inconsistent when it comes to that. Freeza was hurt by Gohan and Kuririn when they had no energy left to fight.

Yet when Piccolo fired his first Special Beam cannon which had a PL of 1,330, Raditz was shown to be worried, and actually tries to doge the attack instead of trying to tank it,showing noticeable damage in the process, he even claims the attack would haven taken him out. Before you go saying, but the Special Beam cannon is a piercing attack. Raditz didn't know this since he's never met the attack before. Then their is also Gohan PL of 1,307.

I don't get what you are saying. Piccolo's Makankousappou and Gohan were very close to Raditz, enough to injury him. Isn't that simply?

It is interesting to note that after Gohan attacked Raditz, he said to Goku that Gohan was stronger than Goku, instead of saying that Gohan was stronger than both of them:


“Only a child?! You’re joking! The brat has a higher battle power than you!” (Herms' translation)

There is also Vegeta saying that it was pitiful for Raditz being killed by someone with a battle power of 1,330:


“Geez, what a pitiful guy... To be killed by guys with battle powers slightly over 1,000 at most...” (Herms' translation)

Regardless, it seems that Raditz battle power was superior to 1,307 or 1,330, while the exact amount is not given in the manga.

So in short Raditz PL is between 1200-1300. If Raditz had a PL of 1500, he would not have been considered slightly superior to the saiberman but just straight up superior. A PL gap of 300 equals to a percentage difference of 20%, which would make it impossible for the Saiberman to challenge raditz and even win, so their would be no rivalry there.

While fans often elaborate some rules regarding battle powers, such a thing has never been said in the manga.

I don't see anything wrong with Raditz being at 1,500, in fact considering that there are clues in the manga that Raditz had more than 1,330 and Toriyama said in an interview that he was stronger than the Saibaimen, it seems the guidebooks are much more reliable than fans think.

[Kaboom]

Simple factual truth: You don't have to be stronger than someone to hurt them. Raditz at 1500 works fine.

Now let's try not to keep going down that particular over-traveled detour, okay?

[shonenhikada]

The series is mostly inconsistent when it comes to that. Freeza was hurt by Gohan and Kuririn when they had no energy left to fight.

Freeza was not hurt by Gohan or Kuririn attack and it has not been inconsistent from my knowledge. Freeza was suprise by their attack, yet showed no noticeable injuries anywhere on his body. The only noticeable time he has said an attack hurt him was Goku's Kai-o-ken x20 kamehamaha everything else so far was not affecting him.

“Only a child?! You’re joking! The brat has a higher battle power than you!” (Herms' translation)

Your second point isn't relevant. He is just stating that Goku's child is more powerful than Goku himself because it is rather unusual for a child to surpass their father at such a young age even by Saiyan standards. Vegeta didn't even surpass his father until he was 9 to 10 years old.

“Geez, what a pitiful guy... To be killed by guys with battle powers slightly over 1,000 at most...” (Herms' translation)

Not sure what relevance this is. The second special beam cannon that killed Raditz,had a BP of 1440, which is far greater than slightly more than 1000. Vegeta and Nappa are elites who have battle power over 7000,so in this context they are just saying that it is rather pitiful that raditz were defeated by people with such low battle power.

I don't see anything wrong with Raditz being at 1,500, in fact considering that there are clues in the manga that Raditz had more than 1,330 and Toriyama said in an interview that he was stronger than the Saibaimen, it seems the guidebooks are much more reliable than fans think.

Toriyama exact quote
In his memo to the anime staff published in the DragonBall Z Anime Special, Toriyama confirmed that the Saibaimen's battle power is inferior to Raditz's, saying "But their battle power is considerably high (saibermen he is referring to), at a level slightly inferior to Raditz" (し かし 戦 闘 力 は か な り 高 くラ ディッツ よ り 少 し 劣 る 程 度). Also, Nappa mentions that the Saibaimen rival Raditz "going just by power"

Slightly inferior means a negligible difference not a difference of 20%. If you don't think it does then this is like saying that Goku from 21st Budokai rivals Tien from 22nd Budokai, OR Tien from 22nd Budokai rivals Piccolo Daimo.

[Fox666]

Freeza was not hurt by Gohan or Kuririn attack and it has not been inconsistent from my knowledge. Freeza was suprise by their attack, yet showed no noticeable injuries anywhere on his body. The only noticeable time he has said an attack hurt him was Goku's Kai-o-ken x20 kamehamaha everything else so far was not affecting him.

Freeza skin was burn.

Your second point isn't relevant. He is just stating that Goku's child is more powerful than Goku himself because it is rather unusual for a child to surpass their father at such a young age even by Saiyan standards. Vegeta didn't even surpass his father until he was 9 to 10 years old.

Raditz could have said "he has a higher battle power than us", but instead just said "he has a higher battle power than you".

Not sure what relevance this is. The second special beam cannon that killed Raditz,had a BP of 1440

In the manga Raditz didn't said what was the battle power of Piccolo's second Makankousappou.

which is far greater than slightly more than 1000.

What is that based on? As far I know the dictionary doesn't specify a numerical value for "slightly".

Slightly inferior means a negligible difference not a difference of 20%.

I feel 20% is a "slightly" difference.

Now let's try not to keep going down that particular over-traveled detour, okay?

I guess I should have read your reply before his?

[shonenhikada]

Freeza skin was burn.

Actually he wasn't. Those were just fumes coming off Freeza from the blast. If you look at him before the attack you can clearly see he was already banged up, and had marks all over his body.

Raditz could have said "he has a higher battle power than us", but instead just said "he has a higher battle power than you".

Yeah he could have, just like he could of said or done many things in this fight that would have not resulted in his untimely death.

In the manga Raditz didn't said what was the battle power of Piccolo's second Makankousappou.

This is true.

What is that based on? As far I know the dictionary doesn't specify a numerical value for "slightly".

Slightly
Definition
To a small degree; inconsiderably.

I wonder consider 20% of something to be more than just a small degree, or inconsiderable amount. Personally slightly falls within the realm of 1-5 %.

[Fox666]

Slightly
Definition
To a small degree; inconsiderably.

Which only walks in circle, since all these definitions are subjective.

Yeah he could have, just like he could of said or done many things in this fight that would have not resulted in his untimely death.

But you also have Vegeta mocking Raditz for being defeated by the hands of someone with 1,307 or 1,330 ("slightly over 1,000" in his words), which suggests Raditz was indeed superior to that.

But I stop now, since Kaboom already told me to do that.

[shonenhikada]

But you also have Vegeta mocking Raditz for being defeated by the hands of someone with 1,307 or 1,330 ("slightly over 1,000" in his words), which suggests Raditz was indeed superior to that.

But I stop now, since Kaboom already told me to do that.

I already explained this point.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Not exactly, technically Yamcha died fighting the Saibaiman, who is said to rivals Raditz. In that sense, Yamcha wasn't shown to surpass the former villain, but that he was capable of fighting on his own against him.

Yamcha still beat the Saibaimen, but he was just taken off-guard with a self-destruction. It's not as if the Saibaimen had the upper hand in that fight or anything. And any one of them, except for maybe Piccolo, would’ve died from that explosion.

[dbzfan7]

LSSJ Broly(movie 10) vs Super Hatchiyack (game)

In case people don't know Super Hatchiyack. He only appeared in the old game that never left Japan.

[Fox666]

Since in the second movie Broli could fight a Super Saiyan 2, I will go with him.