If Saiyans > Kaioshin why was Piccolo afraid to fight?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Oh BTW Xyex here:
Chapter: 447 (DBZ 253), P11.1-3
Context: talking about how Yamu and Spopovitch were followed by Goku and co.
Dabra: “Seems they’re trying to hide from us…In total…there are 7. We can’t use Kaioshin and Kibito’s energy…But 3 of them seem to have marvelous energy…”
Babidi: “Looks like it. It seems that we’ll get more than enough energy from just those 3…Kuhihihi…To think that we’d be able to revive Majin Boo so quickly…”
Hmm Dabura disregards Kaioshin and states that 3 of them have marvelous energy. Those 3 being Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan. He completely disregards Piccolo whom is far above Freeza. Also dont state Piccolo was one of the 3 here is why. Piccolo is turned to stone by Dabura preventing Piccolo's energy from being used which completely goes against what Babidid wants. Base Saiyans > Piccolo. This also means Base Saiyans >>> Freeza. Sorry but you lose .

This just means that Akira made a mistake when he made this part. Its the same as the whole "Gohan is dead, even though we wished everyone good back since the morning of the martial arts tournament." scenario. Everyone believes he is dead but that would be impossible seeing as the wish had just taken place after Goku was told by Piccolo that Gohan was dead. So why would they think he was dead?

Umm they cant sense his energy naturally they think he is dead =/. No Toriyama did not make a mistake here there is no solid proof for that.

[Hitiro]

Oh BTW Xyex here:
Chapter: 447 (DBZ 253), P11.1-3
Context: talking about how Yamu and Spopovitch were followed by Goku and co.
Dabra: “Seems they’re trying to hide from us…In total…there are 7. We can’t use Kaioshin and Kibito’s energy…But 3 of them seem to have marvelous energy…”
Babidi: “Looks like it. It seems that we’ll get more than enough energy from just those 3…Kuhihihi…To think that we’d be able to revive Majin Boo so quickly…”
Hmm Dabura disregards Kaioshin and states that 3 of them have marvelous energy. Those 3 being Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan. He completely disregards Piccolo whom is far above Freeza. Also dont state Piccolo was one of the 3 here is why. Piccolo is turned to stone by Dabura preventing Piccolo's energy from being used which completely goes against what Babidid wants. Base Saiyans > Piccolo. This also means Base Saiyans >>> Freeza. Sorry but you lose .

This just means that Akira made a mistake when he made this part. Its the same as the whole "Gohan is dead, even though we wished everyone good back since the morning of the martial arts tournament." scenario. Everyone believes he is dead but that would be impossible seeing as the wish had just taken place after Goku was told by Piccolo that Gohan was dead. So why would they think he was dead?

Umm they cant sense his energy naturally they think he is dead =/. No Toriyama did not make a mistake here there is no solid proof for that.

Yes, he did make a mistake. Read the chapter, it goes something like this.

Piccolo: "Goku, Gohan is dead. I overheard Vegeta saying it when he was battling that monster."

-Skies get dark due to Shenlong being summoned.-

Goku:"They must be wishing back everyone who died since the morning of the tournament, I better stop them just in case we need the dragonballs later."

Yamcha:"Bring back everyone who died today, except for the really bad ones."

-Goku arrives too late to stop the wish.-

So, if Yamcha brought back everyone who died that day. Where is Gohan? Why did they say he was dead if the wish was just granted? Its established that they couldn't sense his energy but there was a wish to bring everyone back so he would have come back too. Did anybody question this? No, they just said he was dead even after the wish was granted.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Piccolo: "Goku, Gohan is dead. I overheard Vegeta saying it when he was battling that monster."

-Skies get dark due to Shenlong being summoned.-

Goku:"They must be wishing back everyone who died since the morning of the tournament, I better stop them just in case we need the dragonballs later."

Yamcha:"Bring back everyone who died today, except for the really bad ones."

-Goku arrives too late to stop the wish.-

So, if Yamcha brought back everyone who died that day. Where is Gohan? Why did they say he was dead if the wish was just granted? Its established that they couldn't sense his energy but there was a wish to bring everyone back so he would have come back too. Did anybody question this? No, they just said he was dead even after the wish was granted.

Sigh did you not just listen to what I just said? I said they cant sense his energy and its the characters whom are disregarding the idea of the wish not Toriyama. If they cant sense his energy they arent gonna think oh he is alive. Even if the wish were present in there minds it doesnt change the fact that they cant sense him.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

The whole scene is dumb. They were talking like Gohan was gone forever. That's the part that really made no sense.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Its the same as the whole "Gohan is dead, even though we wished everyone good back since the morning of the martial arts tournament." scenario. Everyone believes he is dead but that would be impossible seeing as the wish had just taken place after Goku was told by Piccolo that Gohan was dead. So why would they think he was dead?

Couldn't Gohan die, you know, after the wish? He was almost dead after Boo's attack, he could die in any minute. What would you think if you where it their place? They couldn't feel him anywhere, what else could have happened to him?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Its the same as the whole "Gohan is dead, even though we wished everyone good back since the morning of the martial arts tournament." scenario. Everyone believes he is dead but that would be impossible seeing as the wish had just taken place after Goku was told by Piccolo that Gohan was dead. So why would they think he was dead?

Couldn't Gohan die, you know, after the wish? He was almost dead after Boo's attack, he could die in any minute. What would you think if you where it their place? They couldn't feel him anywhere, what else could have happened to him?

Very good point sir never thought of that.

[Hitiro]

Sigh did you not just listen to what I just said? I said they cant sense his energy and its the characters whom are disregarding the idea of the wish not Toriyama. If they cant sense his energy they arent gonna think oh he is alive. Even if the wish were present in there minds it doesnt change the fact that they cant sense him.

So if they don't sense him after the wish none of them should question why he wasn't brought back? It is a mistake by Toriyama however you look at it. He could have included another panel or two for the Z fighters questioning why the wish didn't bring Gohan back. But he doesn't. They all just going to assume he's dead even though Shenlong should have brought him back, something which should have at least made the people who can't sense powerlevels e.g. Bulma, Puar, Videl, Oolong, Chichi and the Ox King. Its not a matter of "We can't sense him so he's dead." Its a matter of "Why can't we sense him even though they just wished everyone who died today back?"

Couldn't Gohan die, you know, after the wish? He was almost dead after Boo's attack, he could die in any minute. What would you think if you where it their place? They couldn't feel him anywhere, what else could have happened to him?

This is the point I tried to make before on here, unfortunately the events played out in such a way that:

Piccolo overhears Vegeta saying Gohan is dead > Vegeta Sacrifices himself > Piccolo and Krillin make their way back to the Lookout > Goku wakes up from being unconcious and teleports to the lookout > Dende heals Goku and Goku finds the time to change his Gi > Shenlong is summoned for the wish.

I had thought that Goku might have instant transmitted shortly after the wish was made and thought they were only wishing back the people killed at the tournament. But he tells the group that Gohan and Vegeta are dead so why didn't they question this? Surely one of the should have gone "Hang on, didn't we just wish everyone back? When exactly did Gohan and Vegeta die?"

[TheMightyOzaru]

Dude no its not a mistake at all. They cant sense Gohan's energy and thus they dont think he is alive. You also cant declare a mistake since They are just not thinking about that. Its fan opinion vs character disregard. I think Ill take the character disregard that can even be explained with the fact that they cant sense energy.

[Hitiro]

Dude no its not a mistake at all. They cant sense Gohan's energy and thus they dont think he is alive. You also cant declare a mistake since They are just not thinking about that. Its fan opinion vs character disregard. I think Ill take the character disregard that can even be explained with the fact that they cant sense energy.

So your saying that all the characters are thinking about Gohan and Vegeta being dead yet they are ignoring the wish that just happened which should have brought Gohan back to life? Yeah, I can clearly see they are just not thinking about a major point which should effect the status of Gohan being alive. I guess we can't blame Toriyama, we'll just have to call the characters retards because they aren't taking into account the wish that was just made and going "Hold on, we can't sense Gohan so he must be dead. But we just wished everyone who died back to life. So why can we still not sense him?"

And this doesn't detract from the point I made earlier which you completely glossed over which is the fact that if Goku were as strong as Frieza at 100% then the ki from everyone on Earth wouldn't be able to make a Genki Dama strong enough to defeat Kid Buu as it would have a powerlevel of at least 18 billion below Goku's.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Dude no its not a mistake at all. They cant sense Gohan's energy and thus they dont think he is alive. You also cant declare a mistake since They are just not thinking about that. Its fan opinion vs character disregard. I think Ill take the character disregard that can even be explained with the fact that they cant sense energy.

So your saying that all the characters are thinking about Gohan and Vegeta being dead yet they are ignoring the wish that just happened which should have brought Gohan back to life? Yeah, I can clearly see they are just not thinking about a major point which should effect the status of Gohan being alive. I guess we can't blame Toriyama, we'll just have to call the characters retards because they aren't taking into account the wish that was just made and going "Hold on, we can't sense Gohan so he must be dead. But we just wished everyone who died back to life. So why can we still not sense him?"

And this doesn't detract from the point I made earlier which you completely glossed over because which is the fact that if Goku were as strong as Freeza at 100% then the ki from everyone on Earth wouldn't be able to make a Genki Dama strong enough to defeat Kid Buu as it would have a powerlevel of at least 18 billion below Goku's.

They just arent thinking about the wish. Also lets put it this way Vegeta says Gohan is dead right? Well lets say Piccolo or whoever thought he was just clinging to life more or less and thus they could not sense him. Well as soon as the wish was made did everyone all of the sudden sense Gohan again? No. What reason do they have to assume that the wish did the trick when they still sense nothing. Its not a mistake at all. You view that way because you "think" the characters would think about that wish and hey they might but the point above is still present. Its just simple character disregard. No it wouldnt you glossed over the point I made before as well. Not only the Earths humans gave energy. The Z fighters, Kibito Kaioshin, Dende, Rou Kaioshin, Android 17, the Namekians, and people from Other World fueled the Bomb as well. Not to mention Gohan fueled it. Even if he wasnt close to full power, which I doubt since Goku asked for as much as possible, thats a ton of Ki that surpasses SSJ3 Goku right there alone. Accounting only Earth is a huge disregard on your own part. I would also like to take the time to point out that attempting to prove that this scene is flawed does not even pertain to the scene I was referring to about base Saiyans > Piccolo. There is nothing in there that screams mistake especially since Goku and Vegeta have been training hardcore for 7 years. Dabura probably just senses some of Gohan's hidden potential since its present in his base form.

[Hitiro]

They just arent thinking about the wish. Also lets put it this way Vegeta says Gohan is dead right? Well lets say Piccolo or whoever thought he was just clinging to life more or less and thus they could not sense him. Well as soon as the wish was made did everyone all of the sudden sense Gohan again? No. What reason do they have to assume that the wish did the trick when they still sense nothing. Its not a mistake at all. You view that way because you "think" the characters would think about that wish and hey they might but the point above is still present. Its just simple character disregard. No it wouldnt you glossed over the point I made before as well. Not only the Earths humans gave energy. The Z fighters, Kibito Kaioshin, Dende, Rou Kaioshin, Android 17, the Namekians, and people from Other World fueled the Bomb as well. Not to mention Gohan fueled it. Even if he wasnt close to full power, which I doubt since Goku asked for as much as possible, thats a ton of Ki that surpasses SSJ3 Goku right there alone. Accounting only Earth is a huge disregard on your own part. I would also like to take the time to point out that attempting to prove that this scene is flawed does not even pertain to the scene I was referring to about base Saiyans > Piccolo. There is nothing in there that screams mistake especially since Goku and Vegeta have been training hardcore for 7 years. Dabura probably just senses some of Gohan's hidden potential since its present in his base form.

They would have at least mentioned it, or gave it some thought. A person is apparently dead so you wouldn't just disregard the character so nonchalantly, it would have a least brought up a discussion from the characters who can't sense ki.

As for you naming a few characters, they would not give enough ki to surpass Goku. Gohan was severly weakened before he died he probably only has a couple billion in him. Kibito Kaioshin is in hundred millions(Considering Kaioshin said that the Supreme Kai's could handle Frieza) so that isn't much ki in the grand scheme of things. Dende probably has a powerlevel around 1,000 or in the thousands as the strongest Namekian on Namek at the time of the Namek saga was Nail at 45k, the rest were 10k's to 20k's. And the Namekian population is only about a hundred(As said by Kaio in the Saiyan Saga perhaps a little bit more now given how many years have passed). So only a couple of million from them. Not sure about Rou Kaioshin but his powerlevel wouldn't be that high either considering he took a fairly weak ki blast from Goku to the face. Android 17 is by far the biggest boost next to Gohan. But to put Android 17 any higher than a couple of billion(Infact, can you even count his strength as ki? He's an android after all and they don't use ki as energy so whatever ki he has would be around a human level such as 5) would be absurd. As for the Other World it was only the individuals in the check-in station(Underworld) who sent their ki. With Enma Daiō sending the most as his powerlevel has to be more more than 1,000(To defeat Raditz) but lower than Kaio's. However you look at it there is no way that the ones you mentioned would close a gap of 18 billion.

[TheMightyOzaru]

They just arent thinking about the wish. Also lets put it this way Vegeta says Gohan is dead right? Well lets say Piccolo or whoever thought he was just clinging to life more or less and thus they could not sense him. Well as soon as the wish was made did everyone all of the sudden sense Gohan again? No. What reason do they have to assume that the wish did the trick when they still sense nothing. Its not a mistake at all. You view that way because you "think" the characters would think about that wish and hey they might but the point above is still present. Its just simple character disregard. No it wouldnt you glossed over the point I made before as well. Not only the Earths humans gave energy. The Z fighters, Kibito Kaioshin, Dende, Rou Kaioshin, Android 17, the Namekians, and people from Other World fueled the Bomb as well. Not to mention Gohan fueled it. Even if he wasnt close to full power, which I doubt since Goku asked for as much as possible, thats a ton of Ki that surpasses SSJ3 Goku right there alone. Accounting only Earth is a huge disregard on your own part. I would also like to take the time to point out that attempting to prove that this scene is flawed does not even pertain to the scene I was referring to about base Saiyans > Piccolo. There is nothing in there that screams mistake especially since Goku and Vegeta have been training hardcore for 7 years. Dabura probably just senses some of Gohan's hidden potential since its present in his base form.

They would have at least mentioned it, or gave it some thought. A person is apparently dead so you wouldn't just disregard the character so nonchalantly, it would have a least brought up a discussion from the characters who can't sense ki.

As for you naming a few characters, they would not give enough ki to surpass Goku. Gohan was severly weakened before he died he probably only has a couple billion in him. Kibito Kaioshin is in hundred millions(Considering Kaioshin said that the Supreme Kai's could handle Freeza) so that isn't much ki in the grand scheme of things. Dende probably has a powerlevel around 1,000 or in the thousands as the strongest Namekian on Namek at the time of the Namek saga was Nail at 45k, the rest were 10k's to 20k's. And the Namekian population is only about a hundred(As said by Kaio in the Saiyan Saga perhaps a little bit more now given how many years have passed). So only a couple of million from them. Not sure about Rou Kaioshin but his powerlevel wouldn't be that high either considering he took a fairly weak ki blast from Goku to the face. Android 17 is by far the biggest boost next to Gohan. But to put Android 17 any higher than a couple of billion(Infact, can you even count his strength as ki? He's an android after all and they don't use ki as energy so whatever ki he has would be around a human level such as 5) would be absurd. As for the Other World it was only the individuals in the check-in station(Underworld) who sent their ki. With Enma Daiō sending the most as his powerlevel has to be more more than 1,000(To defeat Raditz) but lower than Kaio's. However you look at it there is no way that the ones you mentioned would close a gap of 18 billion.

Are you high? Lets see here... A ton of Namekians who's power levels are above 5 bare minimum and more often than not they have power levels higher than 1,000. Kibito Kaioshin isnt that much weaker than SSJ2 Goku. Gohan is far above Goku and he gave a good deal of his Ki putting that above SSJ3 Goku as it is. Then there is android 18 and android 17 which are fairly powerful. Then there are people from otherworld which too are fairly powerful. Seriously the Genki Dama is much much stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

[Hitiro]

Are you high? Lets see here... A ton of Namekians who's power levels are above 5 bare minimum and more often than not they have power levels higher than 1,000. Kibito Kaioshin isnt that much weaker than SSJ2 Goku. Gohan is far above Goku and he gave a good deal of his Ki putting that above SSJ3 Goku as it is. Then there is android 18 and android 17 which are fairly powerful. Then there are people from otherworld which too are fairly powerful. Seriously the Genki Dama is much much stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

I have said Nameks have quite high powerlevels ranging in the thousands, perhaps you didn't read what I said properly. That doesn't change the fact that there are only about 100 Namekians. You also clearly have your powerscaling completely wrong. Kibito is strong enough to fight on par with Base Gohan as said in Daizenshuu, Kaioshin is at least a few times stronger. The two of them fusing together would not make him over 100x stronger than Kibito. And if it were the case then Kibito Kaioshin would have stayed to fight Buu if he was as strong as SSJ2 Goku because he would have been able to something. As I have said we probably can't count Android 18 and 17, they get their power through artificial means so they probably have the same ki as normal humans. Gohan is powerful fresh but as I have said he would have been brought back with the ki he had when he died which wouldn't be that high. On to "otherworld" as you call it, it was only the individuals in the check-in station. Read the manga and gives you a clear distinction, the check-in station is referred to as Underworld. In the Saiyan saga Enma Daiō clearly states that the place where Goku would later train with Kaio after Kaio's planet is destroyed is called Upperworld. When the the Genki Dama has been launched at Kid Buu Enma Daiō clearly states "We in the Underworld have sent you our ki!"

[TheMightyOzaru]

Are you high? Lets see here... A ton of Namekians who's power levels are above 5 bare minimum and more often than not they have power levels higher than 1,000. Kibito Kaioshin isnt that much weaker than SSJ2 Goku. Gohan is far above Goku and he gave a good deal of his Ki putting that above SSJ3 Goku as it is. Then there is android 18 and android 17 which are fairly powerful. Then there are people from otherworld which too are fairly powerful. Seriously the Genki Dama is much much stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

I have said Nameks have quite high powerlevels ranging in the thousands, perhaps you didn't read what I said properly. That doesn't change the fact that there are only about 100 Namekians. You also clearly have your powerscaling completely wrong. Kibito is strong enough to fight on par with Base Gohan as said in Daizenshuu, Kaioshin is at least a few times stronger. The two of them fusing together would not make him over 100x stronger than Kibito. And if it were the case then Kibito Kaioshin would have stayed to fight Buu if he was as strong as SSJ2 Goku because he would have been able to something. As I have said we probably can't count Android 18 and 17, they get their power through artificial means so they probably have the same ki as normal humans. Gohan is powerful fresh but as I have said he would have been brought back with the ki he had when he died which wouldn't be that high. On to "otherworld" as you call it, it was only the individuals in the check-in station. Read the manga and gives you a clear distinction, the check-in station is referred to as Underworld. In the Saiyan saga Enma Daiō clearly states that the place where Goku would later train with Kaio after Kaio's planet is destroyed is called Upperworld. When the the Genki Dama has been launched at Kid Buu Enma Daiō clearly states "We in the Underworld have sent you our ki!"

Android 17 and 18 have Ki for starters -_-. I dont recall Kibito being stated to be on par with Gohan but then we arent talking about Kibito we are talking about Kibito Kaioshin. Why the hell would he stay if he was as close to SSJ2? It took SSJ3 Goku just to fight on par with Kid Buu whom was toying with Goku not to mention Kibito Kaioshin is scared shitless of Buu. Are you kidding? Just because he died and his Ki wasnt full, which I doubt since that line Goku said to Vegeta was directed only toward Vegeta and can be taken in a different context, He is still mystic and has tons of power to spare. Far above SSJ3 Goku's Ki alone. Just because Goku said "Hey your Ki aint full yet" does not mean he doesnt have a good deal of power left =/. I have read the manga and I'm aware it was the people at the check-in-station. Did I say everyone in Other World? No.

[Hitiro]

Android 17 and 18 have Ki for starters -_-. I dont recall Kibito being stated to be on par with Gohan but then we arent talking about Kibito we are talking about Kibito Kaioshin. Why the hell would he stay if he was as close to SSJ2? It took SSJ3 Goku just to fight on par with Kid Buu whom was toying with Goku not to mention Kibito Kaioshin is scared shitless of Buu. Are you kidding? Just because he died and his Ki wasnt full, which I doubt since that line Goku said to Vegeta was directed only toward Vegeta and can be taken in a different context, He is still mystic and has tons of power to spare. Far above SSJ3 Goku's Ki alone. Just because Goku said "Hey your Ki aint full yet" does not mean he doesnt have a good deal of power left =/. I have read the manga and I'm aware it was the people at the check-in-station. Did I say everyone in Other World? No.

Android 17 and 18 have the ki of normal humans. They gain artificial power from being androids. If you have read the Daizenshuu then you would know that Kibito is on par with Base Gohan. If you're talking about Kibito Kaioshin then you have to factor both their strengths into account and its impossible that them combining together would put them at over 100x stronger than Kibito. Vegeta stayed behind to fight Kid Buu and he's weaker than SSJ2 Goku, if Kibito Kaioshin were as strong as him then he would have been of some use. He's tried to fight Fat Buu even though he was completely outclassed. He would be a lot closer this time around. And what makes you believe he's that strong in the first place? What is your evidence? Because you just randomly said it without anything to support it. A persons Ki must be at the same level it was before they are returned to life, if it was restored then Gohan's ki alone would be enough to defeat Kid Buu. It is highly unlikely that Gohan's ki was that high, he was one of the first ones to give his energy and what do we find out about the Genki Dama? Its nowhere near enough to defeat Kid Buu. If he still had plenty of power it would be close to being complete. Also the fact that not everyone on Earth has a powerlevel of 5, a majority would be lower than that. So 30 billion is just an average powerlevel for all the ki on Earth which pushes the whole possibility of "Base Saiyan's > Frieza 100%" further down the list of possibilities. And considering you think Kibito Kaioshin is as strong as SSJ2 Goku then his ki should be nearly half of the Genki Dama's power. It seems like you were saying everyone in Otherworld because the ones at the check-in station aren't really that powerful at all and you said the ones providing ki in Otherworld are "fairly powerful".

[TheMightyOzaru]

Android 17 and 18 have Ki for starters -_-. I dont recall Kibito being stated to be on par with Gohan but then we arent talking about Kibito we are talking about Kibito Kaioshin. Why the hell would he stay if he was as close to SSJ2? It took SSJ3 Goku just to fight on par with Kid Buu whom was toying with Goku not to mention Kibito Kaioshin is scared shitless of Buu. Are you kidding? Just because he died and his Ki wasnt full, which I doubt since that line Goku said to Vegeta was directed only toward Vegeta and can be taken in a different context, He is still mystic and has tons of power to spare. Far above SSJ3 Goku's Ki alone. Just because Goku said "Hey your Ki aint full yet" does not mean he doesnt have a good deal of power left =/. I have read the manga and I'm aware it was the people at the check-in-station. Did I say everyone in Other World? No.

Android 17 and 18 have the ki of normal humans. They gain artificial power from being androids. If you have read the Daizenshuu then you would know that Kibito is on par with Base Gohan. If you're talking about Kibito Kaioshin then you have to factor both their strengths into account and its impossible that them combining together would put them at over 100x stronger than Kibito. Vegeta stayed behind to fight Kid Buu and he's weaker than SSJ2 Goku, if Kibito Kaioshin were as strong as him then he would have been of some use. He's tried to fight Fat Buu even though he was completely outclassed. He would be a lot closer this time around. And what makes you believe he's that strong in the first place? What is your evidence? Because you just randomly said it without anything to support it. A persons Ki must be at the same level it was before they are returned to life, if it was restored then Gohan's ki alone would be enough to defeat Kid Buu. It is highly unlikely that Gohan's ki was that high, he was one of the first ones to give his energy and what do we find out about the Genki Dama? Its nowhere near enough to defeat Kid Buu. If he still had plenty of power it would be close to being complete. Also the fact that not everyone on Earth has a powerlevel of 5, a majority would be lower than that. So 30 billion is just an average powerlevel for all the ki on Earth which pushes the whole possibility of "Base Saiyan's > Freeza 100%" further down the list of possibilities. And considering you think Kibito Kaioshin is as strong as SSJ2 Goku then his ki should be nearly half of the Genki Dama's power. It seems like you were saying everyone in Otherworld because the ones at the check-in station aren't really that powerful at all and you said the ones providing ki in Otherworld are "fairly powerful".

Dude they have artificial Ki they can still use that to fuel the Genki Dama. The Genki Dama doesnt take some kind of life energy =/. Dude the Potara is closer to multiplication Kibito Kaioshin is more than likely over 100x stronger than Kaioshin. Vegeta is equal to SSJ2 Goku and again is not scared shitless by Buu like Kaioshin is. Seriously it actually kind of baffles me that you think Kibito Kaioshin would actually stick around and try to fight Buu. Where is your logic here? No it is highly likely that Gohan still had a ton of energy higher than that of SSJ3 Goku's. Just because you dont believe in the idea that the characters in Z get exponentially stronger over the years doesnt mean they dont. Trust me I have spent years studying power levels and there possible growth rate. The statement Dabura made does not conflict with the continuity of the series and as such should not be considered a "mistake". I have made a power level list myself that does not contradict Dabura's statement or the continuity of the series so it in fact does work. The thing is I'm one of those people who think Kid Buu is superior to Super Buu based on large amount of evidence presented in the manga that Kaioshin influence is all around negative to Buu. Even if its not the case. It wouldnt take a ton of Gohans power to put the Genki Dama over SSJ3 Goku since Gohan is much stronger than Goku. Goku asked for as much as he could and even after being revived his Ki level should not be ridiculously low. Its a bit illogical to suggest such a thing. Honestly I think Kibito Kaioshin is over half as strong as SSJ2 Goku but not too close to SSJ2 Goku. BTW yes I just read where Kibito is stated to give Gohan a bit of a fight. I must have just missed it.

[Hitiro]

Dude they have artificial Ki they can still use that to fuel the Genki Dama. The Genki Dama doesnt take some kind of life energy =/. Dude the Potara is closer to multiplication Kibito Kaioshin is more than likely over 100x stronger than Kaioshin. Vegeta is equal to SSJ2 Goku and again is not scared shitless by Buu like Kaioshin is. Seriously it actually kind of baffles me that you think Kibito Kaioshin would actually stick around and try to fight Buu. Where is your logic here? No it is highly likely that Gohan still had a ton of energy higher than that of SSJ3 Goku's. Just because you dont believe in the idea that the characters in Z get exponentially stronger over the years doesnt mean they dont. Trust me I have spent years studying power levels and there possible growth rate. The statement Dabura made does not conflict with the continuity of the series and as such should not be considered a "mistake". I have made a power level list myself that does not contradict Dabura's statement or the continuity of the series so it in fact does work. The thing is I'm one of those people who think Kid Buu is superior to Super Buu based on large amount of evidence presented in the manga that Kaioshin influence is all around negative to Buu. Even if its not the case. It wouldnt take a ton of Gohans power to put the Genki Dama over SSJ3 Goku since Gohan is much stronger than Goku. Goku asked for as much as he could and even after being revived his Ki level should not be ridiculously low. Its a bit illogical to suggest such a thing. Honestly I think Kibito Kaioshin is over half as strong as SSJ2 Goku but not too close to SSJ2 Goku. BTW yes I just read where Kibito is stated to give Gohan a bit of a fight. I must have just missed it.

No matter how close to ki it may be artificial is still artificial so its more likely that, that section of their ki is incompatible with the Genki Dama.

Where is your evidence for the Potara fusion being a multiplication in regards to Kibito Kaioshin? As far as we know it only applies to Vegito because the fusion is most powerful when two rivals fuse. This was mentioned by Rou Kaioshin. For the fusion between Kibito and Kaioshin however, that may not be the case because they aren't rivals. And one of them is a god which is why his personality comes out most so the rules could be completely different. Also, Kibito Kaioshin was going to fight Super Buu but Rou Kaioshin stops him saying he has grown much stronger but he wasn't much to begin with and that he'd just be "fodder".

SSJ2 Vegeta is weaker than SSJ2 Goku. We know this because earlier that day he sensed the gap between their powerlevels when Goku was fighting Yakon. That is why he let Babidi put the Majin spell on him. To fill the gap between their difference in power.

If Gohan still has all this ki then only Gohan's ki would be needed seeing as SSJ3 Goku is practically on par with Kid Buu. I think your missing the fact that SSJ Gotenks is around SSJ3 Goku's powerlevel with SSJ3 Goku being > Fat Buu. So for SSJ3 Gotenks to be fighting Super Buu on par with SSJ3 Super Buu would mean he's at least four times as strong as Fat Buu. Meaning Kid Buu must be between Super Buu and Fat Buu for Goku to be able to fight on par with him.

Goku has stated clearly that neither him nor Vegeta are a match for Super Buu unless they fuse. Even after they had pulled the boys and Piccolo out. And as I said, Gohan was one of the first people to supply the Genki Dama with ki. Which Goku clearly said is not nearly enough to defeat Kid Buu. Gohan gave all his ki to the Genki Dama and if you think his ki wasn't that low then the Genki Dama should be much closer to being complete than Goku indicated.

[Fox666]

Android 17 and 18 have the ki of normal humans.

It was mentioned a few times that Goku and the others can't sense any Ki coming from No.17 and 18. So it appears that they don't have any form of "Ki" like a normal person.

Of course No.17 is seen donating energy to the Genki-Dama, but he also said he remembered Goku's voice which he never heard in the entire manga! And on reality it was Lunch in that panel, but it was changed to No.17 later.

If you're talking about Kibito Kaioshin then you have to factor both their strengths into account and its impossible that them combining together would put them at over 100x stronger than Kibito.

Hundreds of millions. Not that I believe it is actually true, anyway.

Oh BTW Xyex here:
Chapter: 447 (DBZ 253), P11.1-3
Context: talking about how Yamu and Spopovitch were followed by Goku and co.
Dabra: “Seems they’re trying to hide from us…In total…there are 7. We can’t use Kaioshin and Kibito’s energy…But 3 of them seem to have marvelous energy…”
Babidi: “Looks like it. It seems that we’ll get more than enough energy from just those 3…Kuhihihi…To think that we’d be able to revive Majin Boo so quickly…”
Hmm Dabura disregards Kaioshin and states that 3 of them have marvelous energy. Those 3 being Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan. He completely disregards Piccolo whom is far above Freeza. Also dont state Piccolo was one of the 3 here is why. Piccolo is turned to stone by Dabura preventing Piccolo's energy from being used which completely goes against what Babidid wants. Base Saiyans > Piccolo. This also means Base Saiyans >>> Freeza. Sorry but you lose .

Of course Babidi also said they could revive Majin Boo with the energy of those 3. Since Gohan as a Super Saiyan 2 filled less than half of Boo's energy, we can also assume that the base Saiyans are probably stronger than him too.

[Herms]

Are you high?

Knock it off, that's no way to talk to people. Let's try to keep this a reasonable discussion.

Also, paragraph breaks are everyone's friend.

On to "otherworld" as you call it, it was only the individuals in the check-in station. Read the manga and gives you a clear distinction, the check-in station is referred to as Underworld. In the Saiyan saga Enma Daiō clearly states that the place where Goku would later train with Kaio after Kaio's planet is destroyed is called Upperworld. When the the Genki Dama has been launched at Kid Buu Enma Daiō clearly states "We in the Underworld have sent you our ki!"

This terminology is a bit of a Viz peculiarity. The "underworld" is what Viz calls the afterlife (the ano-yo, "other world"/"next world"/"world beyond"/etc), while "upper world" is what they call heaven (tengoku). Under Toriyama's diagram of the afterlife, heaven is a big planet floating in the upper part of the afterlife, above Enma's palace. So it's part of the afterlife, though still a different part of it than where Enma's holed up.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I had thought that Goku might have instant transmitted shortly after the wish was made and thought they were only wishing back the people killed at the tournament. But he tells the group that Gohan and Vegeta are dead so why didn't they question this? Surely one of the should have gone "Hang on, didn't we just wish everyone back? When exactly did Gohan and Vegeta die?"

Maybe they questioned this off-screen. Or maybe with all the sadness from Vegeta's & Gohan's death news they didn't think about it, and putted more trust on their senses. Still, I wouldn't call this a mistake.