How does the Genki-Dama work/ Difference of Ki and Genki

[dbzfan7]

As the title says. Toriyama mentioned Ki and Genki as different things. It relates to the whole energy situation that went to the final Genki-Dama and how the whole thing was handled. I made this to move the Genki-Dama debate in the Kaioshin/Piccolo thread here so this topic won't flood it.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Ki is split into categories. Genki is just one of those categories. I happen to think Genki is the majority of Ki used for techniques.

[dbzfan7]

Ki is split into categories. Genki is just one of those categories. I happen to think Genki is the majority of Ki used for techniques.

It can't be split Ki if it is a different type of energy overall. No point in splitting terms if Genki is just majority of Ki. They would be the same thing then.

[NeoKING]

I always thought "Genki" was "Life Energy" or "Goodwill Energy" donated to the development of the Spirit Bomb. I'm pretty sure moves like Baby's Revenge Death Ball or Super Yi Xing Long's galaxy buster don't accept donations from "GenkI" but rather something foul.

[Herms]

It can't be split Ki if it is a different type of energy overall. No point in splitting terms if Genki is just majority of Ki. They would be the same thing then.

Toriyama says in the SEG: Story Guide that ki is comprised of various subcomponents like genki ( vitality), yuuki (bravery), shouki (being in your right mind), etc.

[dbzfan7]

It can't be split Ki if it is a different type of energy overall. No point in splitting terms if Genki is just majority of Ki. They would be the same thing then.

Toriyama says in the SEG: Story Guide that ki is comprised of various subcomponents like genki ( vitality), yuuki (bravery), shouki (being in your right mind), etc.

What does he say about the Ki used for fighting. Genki is life force, but was is battle ki.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Ki is split into categories. Genki is just one of those categories. I happen to think Genki is the majority of Ki used for techniques.

It can't be split Ki if it is a different type of energy overall. No point in splitting terms if Genki is just majority of Ki. They would be the same thing then.

Tell that to Herms.

[dbzfan7]

Ki is split into categories. Genki is just one of those categories. I happen to think Genki is the majority of Ki used for techniques.

It can't be split Ki if it is a different type of energy overall. No point in splitting terms if Genki is just majority of Ki. They would be the same thing then.

Tell that to Herms.

Yeah you were right about the split. But Vitality is life, ergo life force. That supports my point on life force being sent which makes more sense then just a majority of ki.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

Genki seems to be ambient life energy, while we know that ki is a combination of mind, body, and spirit.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yeah you were right about the split. But Vitality is life, ergo life force. That supports my point on life force being sent.

Where is Genki stated to be vitality? Genki just means full of energy or energetic. I dont recall vitality and if it does pertain to life force that seems like a large mistake since Android 18 and 17 are fueling the Genki Dama.

[dbzfan7]

Yeah you were right about the split. But Vitality is life, ergo life force. That supports my point on life force being sent.

Where is Genki stated to be vitality? Genki just means full of energy or energetic. I dont recall vitality and if it does pertain to life force that seems like a large mistake since Android 18 and 17 are fueling the Genki Dama.

Tell that to herms, he just said genki=vitality. Vitality means health, life energy, and being active. The androids are still human. they are enhanced with robotics, but still human.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yeah you were right about the split. But Vitality is life, ergo life force. That supports my point on life force being sent.

Where is Genki stated to be vitality? Genki just means full of energy or energetic. I dont recall vitality and if it does pertain to life force that seems like a large mistake since Android 18 and 17 are fueling the Genki Dama.

Tell that to herms, he just said genki=vitality. Vitality means health, life energy, and being active. The androids are still human. they are enhanced with robotics, but still human.

There Ki is artificial though =/.

[dbzfan7]

There Ki is artificial though =/.

Well who said there genki was changed. They can be wished back so they must have to have a life force. If they were fully robotic they would remain dead. They still have human organs as 18 had a kid. They can still age to death as their inner organs would probably age until failure. It would make sense as it can be what still makes them human. If they had all their energy be part of the artificial ki then the genki part would be unlimited and she could just forever add to the genki-dama.

[TheMightyOzaru]

There Ki is artificial though =/.

Well who said there genki was changed. They can be wished back so they must have to have a life force. If they were fully robotic they would remain dead. They still have human organs as 18 had a kid. They can still age to death as their inner organs would probably age until failure. It would make sense as it can be what still makes them human. If they had all their energy be part of the artificial ki then the genki part would be unlimited and she could just forever add to the genki-dama.

I suppose but even still Genki could be the categories of Ki that is used for techniques. It would explain why characters become exhausted after using a very powerful technique.

[dbzfan7]

There Ki is artificial though =/.

Well who said there genki was changed. They can be wished back so they must have to have a life force. If they were fully robotic they would remain dead. They still have human organs as 18 had a kid. They can still age to death as their inner organs would probably age until failure. It would make sense as it can be what still makes them human. If they had all their energy be part of the artificial ki then the genki part would be unlimited and she could just forever add to the genki-dama.

I suppose but even still Genki could be the categories of Ki that is used for techniques. It would explain why characters become exhausted after using a very powerful technique.

I know the whole Kibitokai thing is weird, he is really the only thing that messes up the whole formula. I personally ignore it as it is inconsistent with how strong he should be and just made him look weak. Kinda like how Cell said as long as the nucleus in his head was intact he could regenerate, then Goku destroys his head and he somehow still lives.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I know the whole Kibitokai thing is weird, he is really the only thing that messes up the whole formula. I personally ignore it as it is inconsistent with how strong he should be and just made him look weak. Kinda like how Cell said as long as the nucleus in his head was intact he could regenerate, then Goku destroys his head and he somehow still lives.

I dont see how its inconsistent. Ki based technique could very well be dependent on the Genki category of Ki.

[dbzfan7]

I know the whole Kibitokai thing is weird, he is really the only thing that messes up the whole formula. I personally ignore it as it is inconsistent with how strong he should be and just made him look weak. Kinda like how Cell said as long as the nucleus in his head was intact he could regenerate, then Goku destroys his head and he somehow still lives.

I dont see how its inconsistent. Ki based technique could very well be dependent on the Genki category of Ki.

I think it is inconsistent like some other things that have happened in the manga. I never heard of Genki used for ki attacks, though it could be possible.

[Insertclevername]

Ki or more specifically, Genki, for all we know, could be based on ones soul. #17 and #18 do have souls. They are still sentient, human beings, albeit modified from their pure state.

[Bussani]

Genki is a type of ki, and is sometimes referred to simply as ki. I think it's like saying, "That is a Mercedes," but that doesn't mean it isn't a car. All genki is ki, but not all ki is genki, if you see what I mean.

I'm not sure I'd say that genki makes up the majority of a person's total ki, but it is important. Even if it isn't the majority, using it up still leaves you unable to do much. Even if they were distributed evenly (for example, 33% genki, 33% yuuki, 33% shouki (which is oversimplifying it because these are only three examples of what ki is made up of, not necessarily everything that contributes to ki size)), I think having zero genki would leave you unable to fight. It's kind of like saying...humans need air to live, but they also need nutrients from food; you can't really say that one is more important than the other, and using up one means you can't do anything.

Finally, I don't think any specific part of ki is used for battle. The way Toriyama talked about it, it seemed to me that these things contribute to your total ki size, and your total ki size is then what's important to battle.

[smiley]

First, I have never seen anything being said about "parts" of ki. Ki isn't what you get when you add up genki, yuuki and shouki. Instead, genki, yuuki and shouki are all different types of ki.

This is why the Genki Dama, despite its apparent focus on collecting people's genki, is stated to collect "people's ki":

Super~
First Appearance: Chapter 514
People: Son Goku
Special Characteristics: A Genki-Dama made by asking everyone on Earth to donate their ki, in order to defeat Majin Buu (pure). Launched with the peoples’ prayers, it has immeasurable destructive power (Daizenshuu 2, p.217).

My understanding, which seems to be different than most people's (I am open to the possibility that I am wrong), is that genki represents the "energy" or "power" of a character. Although bravery, sanity and health can affect one's battle performance, they don't affect the quantity of power or energy. Genki is the "ki" most non-Japanese people mean when they use the word ki. It refers to the sort of mystical/fictional spiritual force characters use to enhance their strength.

When a character says "What an incredibly huge ki!", they aren't talking about how incredibly brave or healthy their foe is. They're impressed by the quantity of their energy, or genki.

Not only was this commonsensical to me, but Toriyama seems to say exactly the same thing.

The word “energy” [genki; also “health”, “vigor”, etc] is well known, but if you had an illness [byouki], would you not have energy? That’s difficult to answer. There are some people who have a healthy body but no energy, but there are also some people who are full of energy even when ill. What’s more, even with people who have about the same amount of power, there are some who, when attacked by Piccolo Daimao for instance, will stand firm and tough it out, while others will run away trembling in fear. If you think this way, you might understand how different kinds of “ki” are very important in battle. In the world of Chinese kenpo disciplines such as Tai Chi, much importance is placed on the training and control of ki.

Notice, first, that "genki" is used synonymous with "the amount of power" and "energy".

He then goes on to explain how other aspects of ki, yuuki and byouki, can result in a different outcome of a fight. Nonetheless, genki is what determines a person's power. This is why people with an equal amount of genki but different degrees of yuuki (bravery) are considered to have "the same amount of power".