Was Kid Boo holding back against Goku?

[Nazi Cola]

Was Goku holding back? He says that he "showed off" too much. How are we to interpret this? Does he mean he could have defeated him but because he wanted to "show off", his energy was lost in the meantime?

Yeah, he wanted to look cool in SSj3, but he didn't know about the stamina drain until it was too late so it cost him the fight.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.6-7
Context: after one of Goku’s attacks damages Boo
Goku: “That bastard…Even though he can quickly return to normal, he’s playing around by purposefully drawing it out…”
*Boo is clearly lollygagging*

So like Kaboom said, it's not so much that he's holding back any strength, but he did mess around a bit.

But yet there are those who say "Herms translated that, it's total BS, Viz all the way!", and persist in saying the Viz translation is right because it's a lot more vague with Kid Boo's strength, at least during this particular statement and Kaioshin's explanation of his origin.

The points I always see from Kid Boo supporters are these:

- Herms is BS. Viz is a lot more accurate.
- Because Viz is more accurate, Goku says Boo was toying with them without being specific of the time, so it's assumed the whole battle.
- Still off the Viz point, there's the whole origin shtick that doesn't mention Boo being weakened through absorption(s), and he gains a soul instead of a heart.
- Because Viz says Boo was calmed down enough to control, and not specifically weakened, this means he wasn't weakened, only his attitude changed.
- Boo never appears to strain himself against Goku, but does against the Genki-Dama. He even pushes it back!
- He's freakin' Kid Boo! Of course he's playing around with everybody, hence the nickname he was given by fans!
- To be more specific on the previous point, he's smiling the entire time.
- He has the advantage over Goku the whole battle.
- Kai energy can't be used to revive Boo, and their magic malfunctions inside him, so it's impossible for South Kaioshin to have strengthened him. He either had no effect or made him weaker (contradictory much?).
- The Daizenshuu entry (Boo's own bio, in fact) that says only South Kaioshin weakened him is crap because it's from a guidebook.
- Goku never said he could beat Kid Boo. He only said he was trying to.
- Vegeta didn't want Gotenks and Gohan being brought to the Kai planet because he knew they were too weak to win.

I think there are a few more points, but yeah, those are all I could think of as I haven't been in one of those debates in a while, fortunately.

I support Kid Buu and I believe Herms stuff. BTW Southern Kaioshin having a negative influence is not contraditctory at all.

[Blackstripe]

I wish people wouldn't say that Kid Buu can't hold back. If that wasn't the case, then Mr. Satan would have been obliterated by that punch to the face right after he spat up Mr. Buu. Also, claiming he has no sentience is silly as well. You can clearly see him taunting Mr. Buu by waggling his finger at him after he blasts his head off. I'd say that takes some degree of sentience. So it is definitely possible for him to hold back.

Now, whether he was or not against Gokuu is another matter entirely. But yes, he is CAPABLE of doing so, if he so desires.

[Nazi Cola]

I support Kid Buu and I believe Herms stuff. BTW Southern Kaioshin having a negative influence is not contraditctory at all.

I'm saying they point out that Kai energy can't be used, so South Kaioshin couldn't have made Boo stronger, but then they say he made him weaker. How is that not contradictory? It should have no effect at all if it can't used.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I support Kid Buu and I believe Herms stuff. BTW Southern Kaioshin having a negative influence is not contraditctory at all.

I'm saying they point out that Kai energy can't be used, so South Kaioshin couldn't have made Boo stronger, but then they say he made him weaker. How is that not contradictory? It should have no effect at all if it can't used.

Well lets see here. Daikaioshin is also a Kai and he reduced Buu's power. If Kaioshin influence is generally negative then the same thing would happen when Kid Buu absorbed South Kaioshin. You do realize Dabura's statement about Kaioshins energy being unusable can be interpreted as it would reduce the progress meaning you cant use it to make progress. In other words view it like this. "We can't use Kibito or Kaioshins energy(To increase Buu's power)..." I may make a thread in the long run explaining how Kid Buu could be superior. Both sides have arguments I just take the Kid Buu side.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I used to believe that Kaioshin of the South also weakened Boo because he was a Kaioshin, and that Dai Kaioshin weakened him because he was a Kaioshin as well, but then I noticed these lines:

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P13.5
Context: as evil Boo reverts to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P3.4-6
Context: after Boo reverts to his pure form
Goku: “…”
Vegeta: “……Heh…Heheheh…Look! He’s shrunk down quite a bit!”
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”
Note: "He’s shrunk" is chidzimu, which typically refers to physical shrinking (like with Bulma's Micro Band) and throughout DB is never used to refer to ki diminishing. So Vegeta's probably talking about how Boo’s body has shrunk. That doesn't mean Boo's ki didn't go down too, but it's not what Vegeta's talking about here.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.2-7
Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “
Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”

These lines prove that S. Kaioshin Boo > Pure Boo > Innocent Boo

Kaioshin of the South increased Boo's power, but Dai Kaioshin decreased Boo's power because Boo, a pure evil being by his nature, absorbed the kind Dai Kaioshin. There is no indication that his nature as a Kaioshin was the reason (or one of the reasons) that Boo's power decreased. All we know is that Shinians' energy can't be used to revive Boo, but this doesn't seem to affect Boo when he absorbs one, since Kaioshin of the South, a Shinian, increased Boo's power.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I used to believe that Kaioshin of the South also weakened Boo because he was a Kaioshin, and that Dai Kaioshin weakened him because he was a Kaioshin as well, but then I noticed these lines:

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P13.5
Context: as evil Boo reverts to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P3.4-6
Context: after Boo reverts to his pure form
Goku: “…”
Vegeta: “……Heh…Heheheh…Look! He’s shrunk down quite a bit!”
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”
Note: "He’s shrunk" is chidzimu, which typically refers to physical shrinking (like with Bulma's Micro Band) and throughout DB is never used to refer to ki diminishing. So Vegeta's probably talking about how Boo’s body has shrunk. That doesn't mean Boo's ki didn't go down too, but it's not what Vegeta's talking about here.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.2-7
Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “
Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”

These lines prove that S. Kaioshin Boo > Pure Boo > Innocent Boo

Kaioshin of the South increased Boo's power, but Dai Kaioshin decreased Boo's power because Boo, a pure evil being by his nature, absorbed the kind Dai Kaioshin. There is no indication that his nature as a Kaioshin was the reason (or one of the reasons) that Boo's power decreased. All we know is that Shinians' energy can't be used to revive Boo, but this doesn't seem to affect Boo when he absorbs one, since Kaioshin of the South, a Shinian, increased Boo's power.

I direct you to the topic labeled Kid Buu. I cover these topics.

[Bussani]

Was Goku holding back? He says that he "showed off" too much. How are we to interpret this? Does he mean he could have defeated him but because he wanted to "show off", his energy was lost in the meantime?

Personally, I thought he meant that he showed off too much by agreeing to not use the potara and handle things on his own. I don't think he was holding back.

[Kaboom]

Or, being Goku, he was too preoccupied with enjoying the fight rather than finishing it quickly.

[hleV]

Goku even had the time to actually check if Boo tasted like bubble gum... after Boo did that to him.

[smiley]

Or, being Goku, he was too preoccupied with enjoying the fight rather than finishing it quickly.

A possible problem with this interpretation is that Goku says that he will need to go all out from the start.

[Toadster]

No. I don't think he can really conceptualize the idea of "holding back" insofar as actually lowering or hiding a portion of his true power to deal with lesser opponents. Did he take Goku seriously as a threat? No, probably not, but only because Goku didn't have an overwhelming advantage against him in terms of strength.

He sure knew how to hold back against Mr. Satan, to where a SSJ3 tiered character could inflict pain on Mr. Satan without killing him. And he held back against Vegeta obviously. He could have one-shotted Vegeta if he wanted to, because he was that much more powerful.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Was Goku holding back? He says that he "showed off" too much. How are we to interpret this? Does he mean he could have defeated him but because he wanted to "show off", his energy was lost in the meantime?

Personally, I thought he meant that he showed off too much by agreeing to not use the potara and handle things on his own. I don't think he was holding back.

Same here. Typical Saiyan pride and whatnot, with both he and Vegeta complacently and selfishly believing that they could finish it alone and were confident in that assertion, because Boo was alone now too.

Yeah, well done making short-sighted and flimsy assumptions about the strongest, most unpredictable, magical regenerating bubblegum monster the universe has ever seen, you arrogant Saiyan retards. I mean, you just saw the guy revert back to his original form, something you'd never seen before, when you believed that he was meant to be revert back to his weak grey form. And then, soon afterwards, you throw away your second chance in favour of, "Nah, we work better alone. No worries that our entire planet, and all our loved ones, have literally been incinerated, and there are no guarantees that we can even wish them all back with Dragon Balls on another planet. We can handle it, right, Vegeta, my rival who doesn't even have Super Saiyan 3, which in and of itself is a flawed transformation, even while dead?"