Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

[Saiga]

Pafupafu, although some of your statements are accurate and within reason, you are seriously a broken record.

Yeah, that's not appreciated. You've been biased throughout this entire project and have actually supported it on your wonky little website. So...moving on...

And you haven't been?

[Avenged]

Pafupafu, although some of your statements are accurate and within reason, you are seriously a broken record.

Yeah, that's not appreciated. You've been biased throughout this entire project and have actually supported it on your wonky little website. So...moving on...

What's so wrong with supporting this? Maybe I think my 10k unique visitors I get per day would enjoy fan projects such as this. BTW what does this have to do with my site? Just curious. So...moving on...

[Pafupafu]

What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not talking about the copyright. It's irrelevant to the claim that K&K have stolen the donation money and given themselves a profit out of it.

You keep talking about the evidence and proof without actually providing evidence or proof. I have no reason to believe you without these things. You can't possibly know how much the money was spent, because even if you can think of a way to produce a similar trailer for a much lower cost, they could have done things differently, less efficiently, and more expensively. You can't know that it's impossible for a trailer to cost this much.

You're also ignoring that it wasn't just donation money that went into this, but also some of their own money.

Well luckily I don't really care if you believe me or not. I was just explaining the improbability of such a poor quality result soaking that entire budget. Like I said, it's more obvious to people actively working in the Film, Television, Media business. Most Producers can at the very least ballpark a price. I just think it's wrong that K&K dodged all inquiries regarding it and haven't provided IndieGoGo or its users with any expense report, which infers a possibility of fraud. More fraud, actually, seeing as they have already committed fraudulent actions in the realm of copyright law.

[Pafupafu]

Pafupafu, although some of your statements are accurate and within reason, you are seriously a broken record.

Yeah, that's not appreciated. You've been biased throughout this entire project and have actually supported it on your wonky little website. So...moving on...

What's so wrong with supporting this? Maybe I think my 10k unique visitors I get per day would enjoy fan projects such as this. BTW what does this have to do with my site? Just curious. So...moving on...

Maybe you missed the part where it is copyright-infringing on the very property your site and this site promotes? Haven't seen anything on Kanzenshuu's front regarding this project...wonder why...

[Avenged]

Maybe you missed the part where it is copyright-infringing on the very property your site and this site promotes? Haven't seen anything on Kanzenshuu's front regarding this project...wonder why...

They also never covered Dragonball Evolution (let alone any fan made project), but that's a different discussion.

[Pafupafu]

Pafupafu, although some of your statements are accurate and within reason, you are seriously a broken record.

Yeah, that's not appreciated. You've been biased throughout this entire project and have actually supported it on your wonky little website. So...moving on...

And you haven't been?

Well-played sir. But my standpoint has simply been reaction to actions taken by K&K on this private forum. "Avenged" promotes it. Which I think is just not morally the right thing to do, especially as this is infringing upon DragonBall itself.

[Kaboom]

That's enough of that. Talk about the trailer project itself or don't talk at all.

[Pafupafu]

Maybe you missed the part where it is copyright-infringing on the very property your site and this site promotes? Haven't seen anything on Kanzenshuu's front regarding this project...wonder why...

They also never covered Dragonball Evolution (let alone any fan made project), but that's a different discussion.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/tidbits/drago ... omparison/

That link right there. That's you being wrong.

[Insertclevername]

Well, I can't say I was disappointed...considering I had no high expectations from the start. While an, um, interesting attempt at live action Dragon Ball, it definitely feels like a misguided mess. It all felt artificial and the performances were definately below average, especially by whoever played Piccolo. To be honest, I actually think a live action Dragon Ball movie (or short) could be made, just not in this muted, semi realistic style.

Also, I know this sounds really nerdy, but why couldn't they be consistent with the names!? It's either dub or original, pick one! Not to mention, why can't anyone get the Kamehameha right? It's like the most simplistic hand movements you could do, but in both this and Evolution, they just resort to boxing their hands below their right nipple. I kind of get the feeling this really wasn't so much a fan project considering all these weird inaccuracies, and more along the lines of making something that they knew would get attention.

[Hujio]

Gentlemen (you know who I'm talking to), let's settle this down a bit and try to follow Kaboom's advice. We should all take the discussion at hand more toward the recent trailer; the workings of K&K Productions has already been well documented in this thread, so there's no need to beat a dead horse on this subject. We get your point. Conversely, it's not wrong for someone, especially from a film business background, to express their opinion of such fan work. However, let's not lambaste each other. If other websites want to cover and support this project, then that's their choice to do so. I also think the fact that we (Kanzenshuu) are not covering it should imply our general thoughts, but that's all I'll say about that.

They also never covered Dragonball Evolution (let alone any fan made project), but that's a different discussion.

To speak to Avenged's point -- we have no issues with fan projects, so long as they aren't at the expense of the fans. While there are many fan projects we support, we do not religiously cover them as "news". Due to the massive amount of fanart, fanfics, fan manga, random videos, and etc., we mainly stick to reporting "official" news relating to the franchise. If something fan-related strikes our fancy, we'll mention it. Also, we did cover Dragonball Evolution, on both the website and the podcast.

Now, back to critiquing the trailer...

[B]

Ouch, that was painful. What in Kami's name was that Saiyans arrival to the battlefiled scene? And I just started laughing once Goku showed up.

[gohan2k]

I've just watched three times (and a couple more times when writing this) and I have to say while I like it overall it definitely could've been a lot better.

Here's my best and worst moments from the trailer....

THE BAD:
- The decision to have the same dialogue as the dub, combined with people who probably aren't actual actors, means some of the lines come off very forced and un-natural especially Krillin calling out "Goku, we need you!"
- Pretty much all of the flying scenes look very low budget and not at all convincing. I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure it's to do with lighting. They just don't look like they're actually in the sky
- Nappa's "This is gonna be one hell of a party" line. For some reason they have him say it directly to the camera, breaking the third wall.
- Inaudible/Distorted dialogue. Especially noticeable at 2.04 where Tien yells "Chaozu, stop!" and you can barely understand what he's saying. There should of been some re-dubbing there. There's also other occasion where the dialogue doesn't sound as it should. Gohan yelling Masenko at 1.45 it sounds more like he's thinking "Masenko!" than yelling it out loud...
- The part at 4.03 with Gohan over Piccolo has some weird lighting issue or something going on. It just doesn't look right
- Chaozu looks weird in every shot he's in. I've always thought Chaozu wouldn't work in live action and I still feel the same way.
- The Kaioken aura around Goku for the most part again looks very low budget and fake looking
- Spelling mistakes in the credits. Seriously. I'm really appalled they did this. Sure I suppose it's nitpicky but I just think that it just takes a few seconds for someone to look at the credits and point out the mistakes before you stick it on the net for the world to see. There's at least two mis-spellings I saw of "Prosthtetics" instead of Prosthetics and even worse Rehearsal spelt as "Rehesal". Spell checkers people!!
- And more as personal preference thing I think it just looks really amateur to credit yourself ten times in the credits. Especially one after the other. The Kirbys are credited as Camera Operators, Costume Design, Costume Makers, Directors of Photography, Production Co-Ordinators, Sound Design, Editors, Adapted for live action by, Producers and Directors with one brother or another credited for Special Effects and Boom Operator (I understand they did a lot of things themselves but it just looks really amaeteurish in my opinion). Funnily enough they don't credit the writers of the original dialogue they used.
- No credit for Akira Toriyama? They did mention him at the beginning but a mention of the man who is responsible for Dragonballs existence in the first place wouldn't have been amiss

And yes I understand this is fairly low budget it still must be pointed out. There's also stuff that clearly could've been fixed at no or little cost which is diappointing (seriously, spelling mistakes??)

THE GOOD
- Aside from the ones mentioned above most ranged from good to pretty impressive. I liked the arrival of the Saiyans part.
- The idea of having the scouters as holograms looks a lot better than having the solid clear material depicted in the anime
- The hand to hand fight scenes were well choreographed and look really cool, exactly how I'd imagine they'd be.
- Peter Peralta, the actor for Goku was easily the best of the lot. His line to Nappa "Show me what you got" is easily my favourite moment of the trailer. Awesome.
- Piccolo's death scene looks really good, exactly like the anime
- The prosthetics of Tiens arm missing looks great. I was shocked they actually showed that!
- While there is lighting problems like I mentioned above a lot of the shots looked really great. I like the choice of under-saturating the colours.

Overall I'd give the trailer a 6.5/10

[Jord]

They need to take some notes from these guys in these videos if they want to make a good live action video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mSdpMJCdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn_HaEf62h4

Now I'm not a Naruto fan but THAT is awesome. THAT is how a fan trailer should be.

That SF trailer is awesome too.

Compare that Dragonball joke to these two and I bet those projects didn't beg for money.

[Ringworm128]

They need to take some notes from these guys in these videos if they want to make a good live action video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mSdpMJCdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn_HaEf62h4

To be fair those weren't really effects driven besides a few energy blasts, and that short bit where they flew up into the air didn't look any better (if not worse). Also the costumes look like your standard cosplay outfits, at least KnK made/designed there own costumes.

[Jord]

They need to take some notes from these guys in these videos if they want to make a good live action video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mSdpMJCdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn_HaEf62h4[/quote] To be fair those weren't really effects driven besides a few energy blasts, and that short bit where they flew up into the air didn't look any better (if not worse). Also the costumes look like your standard cosplay outfits, at least KnK made/designed there own costumes.

That's just it. If you can't afford decent effects, don't do them at all. Bad effects bring down the entire production. If they wanted to make a Dragonball trailer make it about the Dragonball part or a Z part where there is limited KI involvement.
As for the Naruto costumes; I think they look fine for a fan-made trailer and I don't care who made them.

Besides, the camera action, choreography and even the special effects look a lot better than the Dragonball one.

[Appūru-sama]

Raditz: "my two Saiyan comrade...deep in outer schpay"
Nappa: "Dis is gunna be one hell of a potty"
LOL

Also, why is Nappa white and space australian??? Feel like it would make more sense for him to be Asian like the other Saiyans.
Same for Kuririn, if he's to look like an Orinji (based on Shaolin) monk.
And goddamnit Chaozu!! You look like a bad acid trip.

But anyway, maybe except for Goku, just baaaaad acting all around. The effects I can understand are going to be amateurish with a low budget, but there's no excuse for bad acting in a film piece, even if the actors are clearly talented real life martial artists. Personally I hate when a film relies on 100% CGI effects...it never looks good IMO. They could of spruced it up using real lights and wind for the ki blasts and power up's to look more grounded. And the wire work is so awkward. When their floating it looks like their...awkwardly suspended on wires...

I respect their sincerity...but if your going to do something, do it right (especially when said something has decades of millions and millions of die hard loyal fans).

...On the flip side, maybe Hollywood will notice and attempt an actual respectful and accurate film version a la Avengers? If they did it right, with the right promotion, then there would be money for them to be made. Even as abysmal as Evolution was, it still made a profit. I still believe Dragonball COULD be translated to the big screen with the right talent. But then again, why try and tamper with something that's already so wonderful existing in the hand drawn pages of the manga and TV screen.

[CaBrPi]

Oh dear.

This was not a very good effort. I really don't know what to say outside of echoing previous sentiments. Choreography, cinematography, effects, lighting, acting... everything was just so off. The whole thing just seemed so half-hearted after all the enthusiasm of the pre-release material.

I thought the Saiyan armor was done rather well, though, but it could've been much, much better.

[NeoKING]

Couldn't they have made it a bit more faithful to the original? "Kay-yo-ken?" We live in the era of "Kai-oh Ken" and "I am the Super Saiyan, Son Goku!"

[Jackal puFF]

Digging around youtube I found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... RGdxTi2yOg#!

Shows some more of the Goku and Vegeta fight. Looks a bit better than the one we saw.

[DBZfan29]

...So I actually tweeted the filmmakers writing I felt it was pretty bad. I then, just to see what would come out of it, commented that some feel their "non profit" video isn't so "non profit." They replied "haha ok..." Judging from the replies I've read, this video is being well received on Twitter, but I honestly feel their efforts are being congratulated and not their actual work. People just want DB with real people. Some people even want a Freeza saga next which (judging by how Chiaotzu looked) should be pretty weird.