How strong is Kaioshin?

[Dayspring]

He is still just a kid. All the inherent power in the world can’t save you if you don’t know how to use it. Just watch movies 10&11 to see how useful he is compared to Gohan.

Just because he can go SSJ doesn’t necessarily mean he is really strong. I don’t think Goten could hold his own against Freeza, but , I will stop there and try to stay on topic.

Uh, he's almost as strong as Trunks, who almost ACCIDENTALLY killed #18... I think SSJ Goten can handle Freeza.

And just because he can't perfectly control all his energy doesn't mean he's powerless.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

I would put at about form 2 cell's power level, because he was scared of Dabura ( who is roughly as strong as perfect Cell).

Dabura was stated to be "stronger than Cell" with the obvious implication that he's stronger than Super Perfect Cell. Also note that the Supreme Kai was able to hold SSJ (or was it SSJ2? Can't remember...) Gohan at the Budokai. Which means he is more powerful than Gohan was at that point.

Magic is different that physical strength. Stated by Kaiôshin himself.

[Kodoshin]

Uh, he's almost as strong as Trunks, who almost ACCIDENTALLY killed #18... I think SSJ Goten can handle Freeza.

And just because he can't perfectly control all his energy doesn't mean he's powerless.

While we are speaking of Freeza, does anyone agree with me that he is really nothing more than a very average fighter (if not below average)? He displays very little cunning in his battles relying almost exclusively on brute force (since he is used to being so much stronger than anyone else) and his strategies were certainly nothing special.

On top of that, when faced with an opponent equal to him (or slightly stronger) he totally falls apart mentally.

Just something I had been kicking around in my head quite a bit.

[Dayspring]

Uh, he's almost as strong as Trunks, who almost ACCIDENTALLY killed #18... I think SSJ Goten can handle Freeza.

And just because he can't perfectly control all his energy doesn't mean he's powerless.

While we are speaking of Freeza, does anyone agree with me that he is really nothing more than a very average fighter (if not below average)? He displays very little cunning in his battles relying almost exclusively on brute force (since he is used to being so much stronger than anyone else) and his strategies were certainly nothing special.

On top of that, when faced with an opponent equal to him (or slightly stronger) he totally falls apart mentally.

Just something I had been kicking around in my head quite a bit.

But that's because that's exactly what Freeza is; a god amongst men. He dwarfs his father who is the strongest member of the strongest race in the universe. I'd be just like him if I had that much power to throw around.

[Duo]

Freeza's most impressive ability was power disguising.

But he wasn't "unskilled" in battle, either. Even though he was weaker, he managed to knock around Ssj Goku around pretty good at 100%.

Also, he was brilliant at conserving his Ki. His attacks weren't really wasteful and were very efficient - Take the "Death Beam" for example. It required very little Ki but was incredibly fatal.

Plus Freeza was very good at using Telekinesis, that counts for something too.

[Kodoshin]

Freeza's most impressive ability was power disguising.

But he wasn't "unskilled" in battle, either. Even though he was weaker, he managed to knock around Ssj Goku around pretty good at 100%.

Also, he was brilliant at conserving his Ki. His attacks weren't really wasteful and were very efficient - Take the "Death Beam" for example. It required very little Ki but was incredibly fatal.

Plus Freeza was very good at using Telekinesis, that counts for something too.

I'm not so sure about him being brilliant at conserving his ki, he did manage to utterly burn himself out against Goku rather shortly after going to full power.

And well, he did manage to slice himself into a few different pieces with his own attack

[Dayspring]

I'm not so sure about him being brilliant at conserving his ki, he did manage to utterly burn himself out against Goku rather shortly after going to full power.

But that's full power. The same rings true for non-SSJ Goku, SSJ everybody, and SSJ3 Goku/Gotenks.

[Kodoshin]

But that's full power. The same rings true for non-SSJ Goku, SSJ everybody, and SSJ3 Goku/Gotenks.

Yeah I know, but the thing that bugs me about it is that the planet was on the brink of destruction (Inside the infamous 5 minutes at least) and he drops out of it quite a bit of time before the planet actually explodes.

Now no doubt Goku was wearing him out a bit with the pounding, but I still think it really brings his stamina in his full power state into question when he drops off that quickly.

But then again aside from this instance and a few others throughout the series (Super Saiya-Jin 3 etc.) it sometimes is rough to get a grasp on the passage of time during a fight so perhaps I am being too hard on him.

Regardless, I think it's something I will be paying close attention to on my next read-through of the series.

[Dayspring]

If this adds anything to the conversation, Piccolo thinks he's nothing compared to Kaioshin when he thought Kaioshin was the Dai Kaio...