Unpopular DB opinions

[Saiga]

Well, this is interesting, because I'd actually hold that the characters are neglectful assholes/not very good people for most of the series.

Like, at any point you can count the number of truly decent human beings in the main cast on one hand.

And I always thought the cheery irreverence of its cast was something that gave Dragon Ball a lot of its charm and something to hold over other shonen series.

Aside from the obvious (Vegeta, early-Piccolo) I disagree. I think the people exaggerate the flaws in the Dragon Ball cast to make everyone seem a whole lot worse than they are, either to distance themselves from the dub making Goku superhero-esque or to make them more "edgy".

[Cipher]

Aside from the obvious (Vegeta, early-Piccolo) I disagree. I think the people exaggerate the flaws in the Dragon Ball cast to make everyone seem a whole lot worse than they are, either to distance themselves from the dub making Goku superhero-esque or to make them more "edgy".

I don't think it's exaggerating at all, and I think to a certain degree it's intentional.

The main cast is full of selfish children who do the right thing about half the time. Sometimes they're actual children, which makes it more excusable, but it's still an ever-present element.

For the record, Gohan, Videl, Dende, Tenshinhan, Future Trunks, Kaioshin and latter-day Bulma, Piccolo and Kuririn and probably Pan are wholly decent, reasonable people.

The rest of the cast are mentally children.

[CaBrPi]

What about Android 16?

[Cipher]

What about Android 16?

Oh, yeah. He's an adult.

[Saiga]

I don't think it's exaggerating at all, and I think to a certain degree it's intentional.

The main cast is full of selfish children who do the right thing about half the time. Sometimes they're actual children, which makes it more excusable, but it's still an ever-present element.

For the record, Gohan, Videl, Dende, Tenshinhan, Future Trunks, Kaioshin and latter-day Bulma, Piccolo and Kuririn and probably Pan are wholly decent, reasonable people.

The rest of the cast are mentally children.

That's more then five, so you actually did exaggerate.

From who is left... Goten, Trunks, Goku, Vegeta, Chi-Chi, Yamcha and Chaozu? Calling Goten and Trunks neglectful assholes/not very good people is way too harsh, Vegeta was an asshole for most of the series, Goku simply isn't (but he has bad judgement), Chi-Chi is before she mellows out, Yamcha is cocky but that's it (though future Yamcha cheated on Bulma, maybe present did as well), and Chaozu doesn't have a personality.

So it's the assholes who can be counted on one hand.

Oh, and my original comment about turning characters into neglectful assholes refers to all the characters that knew about the side effects to the Dragon Balls (Dende, Kami, Kaio, Kaioshin, Old Kaioshin, the entire Namekian race) and didn't even say anything until it was already too late.

[Cipher]

From who is left... Goten, Trunks, Goku, Vegeta, Chi-Chi, Yamcha and Chaozu? Calling Goten and Trunks neglectful assholes/not very good people is way too harsh, Vegeta was an asshole for most of the series, Goku simply isn't (but he has bad judgement), Chi-Chi is before she mellows out, Yamcha is cocky but that's it (though future Yamcha cheated on Bulma, maybe present did as well), and Chaozu doesn't have a personality.

Okay, so I exaggerated a little bit. But most of the ones I listed aren't in the series at the same time, or don't mature until much later (Bulma pre-Android arc and Kuririn pre-Namek arc-ish).

So, yeah, we have Goten and Trunks, Vegeta, Goku, Chi-Chi, Oolong, Kame-Sennin, Chaozu, Old Kaioshin, Yamcha, for a while Bulma, for a while Kuririn, Android 17 and 18, Lunch, Uranai Baba, Mr. Satan, Mr. Boo, etc. Even if they do tally less than the mature characters, we're talking about some very central people here. And yeah, maybe they're not total assholes or bad people, but I think selfish children is fair. And I think it's refreshing and humorous.

Oh, and my original comment about turning characters into neglectful assholes refers to all the characters that knew about the side effects to the Dragon Balls (Dende, Kami, Kaio, Kaioshin, Old Kaioshin, the entire Namekian race) and didn't even say anything until it was already too late.

Oh. Well then. Still, Dende didn't know, did he? Or the current generation of Namekians? And Old Kaioshin did warn them.

Popo's just an asshole though. But whatever. That guy doesn't even like jokes.

[Saiga]

So, yeah, we have Goten and Trunks, Vegeta, Goku, Chi-Chi, Oolong, Kame-Sennin, Chaozu, Old Kaioshin, Yamcha, for a while Bulma, for a while Kuririn, Android 17 and 18, Lunch, Uranai Baba, Mr. Satan, Mr. Boo, etc. Even if they do tally less than the mature characters, we're talking about some very central people here. And yeah, maybe they're not total assholes or bad people, but I think selfish children is fair. And I think it's refreshing and humorous.

Selfish is fair if you want a blanket term. Most of those characters develop and mature though, which I think is much better than staying selfish.

Oh. Well then. Still, Dende didn't know, did he? Or the current generation of Namekians? And Old Kaioshin did warn them.

Popo's just an asshole though. But whatever. That guy doesn't even like jokes.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Dende explained that was the whole reason for the Dragon Balls splitting up in the first place - to avoid that from happening. If it wasn't him, then Kami's an asshole for not simply making them activate after the negative energy was gone. Or at least telling Goku when he came to the sanctuary, or (if this is possible) program Shenron to tell people.

Old Kaioshin gave a warning, yeah, which I'm pretty sure provided the idea for the arc. The problem is, his warning boiled down to "it's not right to have things be so easy" not "keep this up and you'll destroy the fucking universe". He probably wouldn't swear anyway though.

I could be wrong about the Namekian race but I thought they knew about the negative energy. I'd have to check the episodes again to be sure but I thought Moori had a cameo.

[CaBrPi]

Popo's just an asshole though. But whatever. That guy doesn't even like jokes.

Oh please, do go on.

No, but I actually don't think anyone other than the Elder Kaioshin knew about those side-effects.

I'm actually really looking (very far) forward to seeing how Kaboom handles all that.

[Saimaroimaru]

Vegeta in himself was a plot device to extend the fight with main villains. He goaded Frieza into transforming, he let Cell reach Perfect form, and he fought Goku knowing Buu would get out from the energy released. For that reason I dislike him. His arrogance has caused a lot of trouble.

[Cipher]

Oh please, do go on.

It wasn't a TeamFourStar reference, if that's what you're thinking.

I thought Popo says something about hearing of the Evil Dragons before, but I may have confused that with him knowing about the Black Star Dragonballs. I haven't seen the episodes in a while.

Also, his not liking jokes is something he actually says while training Goku.

[Rocketman]

Dragonball is full of selfish assholes, which is incredibly refreshing given glurgy shit like One Piece.

[DBZAOTA482]

Aside from the obvious (Vegeta, early-Piccolo) I disagree. I think the people exaggerate the flaws in the Dragon Ball cast to make everyone seem a whole lot worse than they are, either to distance themselves from the dub making Goku superhero-esque or to make them more "edgy".

I don't think it's exaggerating at all, and I think to a certain degree it's intentional.

The main cast is full of selfish children who do the right thing about half the time. Sometimes they're actual children, which makes it more excusable, but it's still an ever-present element.

For the record, Gohan, Videl, Dende, Tenshinhan, Future Trunks, Kaioshin and latter-day Bulma, Piccolo and Kuririn and probably Pan are wholly decent, reasonable people.

The rest of the cast are mentally children.

Pan, decent?! Kaioshin, reasonable?!

...Well, I needed a good laugh for the morning.


Here's more:

- Bebi sucks and so does his Saga
- Goku vs. Vegeta (first match) is the best fight in the series, yes even better than Goku vs. Piccolo

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I decided to ignore all the statements & fights in GT that make the characters, especially Goku, stronger than Super Vegetto, because I believe it's impossible, so I have them in the "Toei crap" category, like the filler statements/fights in DB & DBZ that make Yamcha stronger than Cell, Pure Boo stronger than Gohan Boo, Boo arc SS Goku stronger than Ultimate Gohan, Mutaito stronger than Piccolo Daimao, etc.

[Cipher]

Dragonball is full of selfish assholes, which is incredibly refreshing given glurgy shit like One Piece.

This is what I was going for, yeah.

Kaioshin, reasonable?!

He was the only character for the first half of his arc that actually gave two shits about saving the universe, so yes.

[90sDBZ]

I actually like the original FUNimation dub of the Captain Ginyu saga. Granted the acting was mediocre at the time but I have nostalgia for it plus Faulconer's music was amazing. I actually like hearing Sabat's Drummond impression. What I didn't like in Season 2 of the orange Bricks was how they changed the original placement of Faulconer's music and switched things around a bit.

Also I actually love the Orange Bricks. The quality is plenty good enough for me and the fact that they are the only easy to come by and affordable release that include Faulconer's music means a lot too. The Dragon Box's are of superior image quality but of much lower nostalgia and sound quality for me due to them not having the English soundtrack.

And I think Lord Slug is one of the more underrated DBZ movies. I thought the fights were awesome and Slug was a decent villain despite being a rip-off of King Piccolo.

I also think Broly is overrated in every way possible. That includes his powerlevel, his quality as a villain and his movies.

[DBZAOTA482]

Kaioshin, reasonable?!

He was the only character for the first half of his arc that actually gave two shits about saving the universe, so yes.

But his plan was so counter-productive that you'd swear he was working alongside Bobbidi. 92% of what happened in the Majin Boo Saga could have been easily avoid if he just read Spopovich or Yamu's mind to track down Bobbidi and kill him, or let the Saiyans know about Majin Boo BEFORE it was too late. Hell, he could have just let Gohan kill the muscle-bound thugs because even Muten Roshi can beat them without breaking a sweat.

[sonikku956]

I don't think it's exaggerating at all, and I think to a certain degree it's intentional.

The main cast is full of selfish children who do the right thing about half the time. Sometimes they're actual children, which makes it more excusable, but it's still an ever-present element.

For the record, Gohan, Videl, Dende, Tenshinhan, Future Trunks, Kaioshin and latter-day Bulma, Piccolo and Kuririn and probably Pan are wholly decent, reasonable people.

The rest of the cast are mentally children.

That's more then five, so you actually did exaggerate.

From who is left... Goten, Trunks, Goku, Vegeta, Chi-Chi, Yamcha and Chaozu? Calling Goten and Trunks neglectful assholes/not very good people is way too harsh, Vegeta was an asshole for most of the series, Goku simply isn't (but he has bad judgement), Chi-Chi is before she mellows out, Yamcha is cocky but that's it (though future Yamcha cheated on Bulma, maybe present did as well), and Chaozu doesn't have a personality.

So it's the assholes who can be counted on one hand.

Oh, and my original comment about turning characters into neglectful assholes refers to all the characters that knew about the side effects to the Dragon Balls (Dende, Kami, Kaio, Kaioshin, Old Kaioshin, the entire Namekian race) and didn't even say anything until it was already too late.

Are you sure? Bulma was really the promiscuous one in the relationship. And you know how anime characters never get to explain any awkward situations...

[Cipher]

But his plan was so counter-productive that you'd swear he was working alongside Bobbidi. 92% of what happened in the Majin Boo Saga could have been easily avoid if he just read Spopovich or Yamu's mind to track down Bobbidi and kill him, or let the Saiyans know about Majin Boo BEFORE it was too late. Hell, he could have just let Gohan kill the muscle-bound thugs because even Muten Roshi can beat them without breaking a sweat.

Do we know he could read their minds?

Anyway, point moot, because 100 percent of what happened in the Boo arc could have been avoided if Goku and Vegeta's spat hadn't gotten in the way.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

I decided to ignore all the statements & fights in GT that make the characters, especially Goku, stronger than Super Vegetto, because I believe it's impossible, so I have them in the "Toei crap" category, like the filler statements/fights in DB & DBZ that make Yamcha stronger than Cell, Pure Boo stronger than Gohan Boo, Boo arc SS Goku stronger than Ultimate Gohan, Mutaito stronger than Piccolo Daimao, etc.

I agree. Goku had already reached his physiological peak with Super Saiyan 3, so in my head, any further transformations or serious increases from training aren't possible (for him, at least). Also, his whole demeanor had changed by the end of Dragon Ball Z. He seemed more into training for fun rather than training to protect the Earth, which was his intention prior to the Cell Arc. That was the whole reason that he was looking for a successor. He even started back in the Cell Arc when he began training Gohan, similar to the way a retiree would. Make your apprentice as good as or better than you so you can lay back and relax.

Continuing with my training argument, I really don't believe he was as strong as Gohan was against Boo, even after the ten year gap following the Boo fight. However, whether or not Gohan got weaker during that time from lack of training is a whole other can of worms.

[Zephyr]

or let the Saiyans know about Majin Boo BEFORE it was too late.

He did let them know before it was too late. They had plenty of time to stop Buu from being awakened. It was only when Vegeta got bored and started crying like a spoiled little princess because he wanted to play with Kakarot that the plan started to go down hill.