Unpopular DB opinions

[TheMightyOzaru]

1.) Goku
2.) Vegeta
3.) Gohan(assuming he still has his mystic form)
4.) Uub
5.) Mr Buu
6.) Trunks
7.) Goten
9.) Piccolo
10.) Android 18

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He's essentially god therefore should know every basic foundation of all planets, especially since he's lived for so long and he CAN use Shukadon Ido.

What are you talking about? Even if he did know every location on Earth (which isn't how gods work in Dragon Ball, they don't know everything about everything, except for the Kami of the planet), how would he know where the spaceship is? And no, he can't use Shunkan Ido, Kibito can.

I don't expect him to know exactly where the spaceship is. I just expect him to know all the required ins and outs, and to not suck so much.

And if Kibito knows how to use Shunkan Ido then they're both incompetent morons, and they endangered the planet. It's sad that King Kai is so much cooler than they are despite his relatively small role.

And I still don't understand the mistakes in Kaioshin's plan. Could you be more specific on all those things. that Kaioshin's stupidity ruined everything? Because seriously, I don't see any flaw in his actions.

[DBZAOTA482]

And I still don't understand the mistakes in Kaioshin's plan. Could you be more specific on all those things. that Kaioshin's stupidity ruined everything? Because seriously, I don't see any flaw in his actions.

Simple.

Instead of needlessly complicating things, all of the mess could have been avoided just by using the Shunkan Ido technique to track Bobbidi down, and kill him. Shunkan Ido can transport you to any area that has ki around it.

Better yet track down the two muscle-bound thugs, make them leave empty handed, and kill them.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm not sure Kibito's Kai Kai works like instantaneous movement in that way. But even if it did, you have to know what you're looking for and be able to find the ki. Babidi is not a powerful fighter, so he wouldn't have much ki to sense. Also, he's a powerful madoshi. I don't see how it's so far out of the realm of possibility that he's good at covering his tracks. I mean, the story seems to make that pretty clear that he needed to follow Yamu and Spopovitch in order to figure out where Babidi is.

And all that aside, even if we did have any reason to believe that Kaioshin could somehow easily find Babidi and just chose not to for... reasons... he still needed to recruit Goku and the others to come with him, and I can't think of better motivation for them to join up (as we saw) than seeing Gohan getting his energy sucked out by some roid rage freaks.

If Kaioshin made any serious blunder, it was not to have done his homework on the Cell fight to know what kind of self-serving, plan-destroying maniac Vegeta is, so that when Vegeta decided to come along, he didn't just hold him in place like Gohan, so they could all fly off, have a few laughs, a good fight, and watch a solid plan come together with only a few, easily remedied casualties.

[DBZAOTA482]

Yeah, let's all blame Vegeta for Kaioshin's incompetence.

If ever or not Kaioshin was obligated to follow Spopovich and Yamu's footsteps, he didn't have to formulate his plan in such a convoluted structure. He could have let everyone know he was the supreme god among kais from the start. Piccolo believed him almost initially, and he is a highly-trusted member of the Z-Senshi. He also could let everyone know about Majin Boo, and how dangerous he was (the thing has the ability to absorb people) instead of telling them at the last second.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But if it wasn't for Vegeta, and the Saiyans in general wanting fair one-on-one fights, they would have easily beaten Dabra together, then easily kill Babidi, and that's it. Boo would stay sealed forever. The plan was very simple: use Gohan as a bait, team up with Goku & co., follow Babidi's minions, kill Babidi & his minions to prevent Boo's resurrection.

[Zephyr]

Yeah, let's all blame Vegeta for Kaioshin's incompetence.

To be fair, we have been successfully arguing that Vegeta is in fact to blame. Because he directly is. Kaioshin's mistakes, which, yes, he did make, were easily remedied if Vegeta didn't make things immeasurably worse. Vegeta's mistake was also fixable, but it would have required a much bigger fix in the form of Goku busting out SSj3 from the get go and putting Vegeta in his place.

Kaioshin's mistakes could be fixed by simply following the plan.

Vegeta's mistakes could be fixed by wasting a trump card and spending much of the remaining amount of time Goku had left during his one day on Earth.


As for Kaioshin not "doing his homework", he has an entire Universe to watch. I don't think that makes it very much of a stretch to assume he didn't notice how powerful the Earthlings were.

[Gaffer Tape]

Yeah, let's all blame Vegeta for Kaioshin's incompetence.

Even Vegeta, selfish, arrogant, sociopath Vegeta later admits that it's his fault! The plan was going perfectly smoothly up to that point, and the entire story would have been wrapped up in an hour if they'd just continued to follow the plan.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yeah, let's all blame Vegeta for Kaioshin's incompetence.

To be fair, we have been successfully arguing that Vegeta is in fact to blame. Because he directly is. Kaioshin's mistakes, which, yes, he did make, were easily remedied if Vegeta didn't make things immeasurably worse. Vegeta's mistake was also fixable, but it would have required a much bigger fix in the form of Goku busting out SSj3 from the get go and putting Vegeta in his place.

Kaioshin's mistakes could be fixed by simply following the plan.

Vegeta's mistakes could be fixed by wasting a trump card and spending much of the remaining amount of time Goku had left during his one day on Earth.


As for Kaioshin not "doing his homework", he has an entire Universe to watch. I don't think that makes it very much of a stretch to assume he didn't notice how powerful the Earthlings were.

We still shouldnt point fingers. If Kaioshin had let Vegeta destroy the ship to get to Babidi they wouldnt be in this mess. If Krillin hadnt destroyed the controller to deactivate 18, Cell wouldnt have become perfect. Honestly Vegeta letting, or rather making, this stuff happen kept the series going which I'm thankful for. I also think its funny that you guys never ever mention all the important stuff Vegeta did. Without Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan would have been killed by Dodoria, Zarbon, or Frieza. Without Vegeta there is no Trunks which means no saving Goku which means everyone is killed by the androids. Without Vegeta there is no continuation. If Vegeta was one of those guys and let Cell become perfect there would be no SSJ2 Gohan which would suck to be honest. If Vegeta had killed Cell, Goku would have never entered the otherworld and attained SSJ3. Vegeta is a very important character who's actions have actually saved the Z-cast multiple times and or continued the series. If you don't like him fine but don't say "but without Vegeta..." There is no DBZ without Vegeta.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If the spaceship was destroyed, Boo would be free,

[TheMightyOzaru]

If the spaceship was destroyed, Boo would be free,

Yeah at not even half of his power which Vegeta could probably manage since he is stronger than Gohan whom is the one that filled nearly half of Buu's power. Hell Goku would cream the guy at less than half power. In fact we dont even know if that would release Buu =/. Kaioshin just says maybe.

[DBZAOTA482]

But if it wasn't for Vegeta, and the Saiyans in general wanting fair one-on-one fights, they would have easily beaten Dabra together, then easily kill Babidi, and that's it. Boo would stay sealed forever. The plan was very simple: use Gohan as a bait, team up with Goku & co., follow Babidi's minions, kill Babidi & his minions to prevent Boo's resurrection.

Like I said:

If Kaioshin didn't let the two muscle-bound thugs steal Gohan's energy, Majin Boo would have been significantly weaker or not have awaken at all.

Even Vegeta, selfish, arrogant, sociopath Vegeta later admits that it's his fault! The plan was going perfectly smoothly up to that point, and the entire story would have been wrapped up in an hour if they'd just continued to follow the plan.

Kaioshin himself admit that his plan wasn't very good to begin with so I'm assuming Vegeta said that out of frustration over the situation considering he DID have a part in the world going to shit, but at least Vegeta's actions are justifiable to some extent. Kaioshin, however, has no excuse. He should have been aware of the kind of people he was working with. He's the god among gods in Dragon Ball.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Like I said:

If Kaioshin didn't let the two muscle-bound thugs steal Gohan's energy, Majin Boo would have been significantly weaker or not have awaken at all.

Like I said:

If Kaioshin didn't let the two muscle-bound thugs steal Gohan's energy, he wouldn't be able to discover Babidi's spaceship.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Like I said:

If Kaioshin didn't let the two muscle-bound thugs steal Gohan's energy, Majin Boo would have been significantly weaker or not have awaken at all.

Like I said:

If Kaioshin didn't let the two muscle-bound thugs steal Gohan's energy, he wouldn't be able to discover Babidi's spaceship.

Oh they would have found it no doubt. Eventually Babidi will wonder what happened to Spopbitchi and Yamu and keep sending henchmen that would all be killed off by Gohan, Goku, or Vegeta. Eventually Dabura would show up and he would either be killed or he would lead everyone to the ship so that Babidi could gather energy.

[DBZAOTA482]

Like I said:

If Kaioshin didn't let the two muscle-bound thugs steal Gohan's energy, Majin Boo would have been significantly weaker or not have awaken at all.

Like I said:

If Kaioshin didn't let the two muscle-bound thugs steal Gohan's energy, he wouldn't be able to discover Babidi's spaceship.

There are easier, and far less counter-productive ways of reaching the same goal. For example, he and the Z-Senshi could have ambushed Spopovich and Yamu thus forcing them to retreat...empty handed.

[CaBrPi]

Like I said:

If Kaioshin didn't let the two muscle-bound thugs steal Gohan's energy, Majin Boo would have been significantly weaker or not have awaken at all.

Like I said:

If Kaioshin didn't let the two muscle-bound thugs steal Gohan's energy, he wouldn't be able to discover Babidi's spaceship.

There are easier, and far less counter-productive ways of reaching the same goal. For example, he and the Z-Senshi could have ambushed Spopovich and Yamu thus forcing them to retreat...empty handed.

Bobbidi would've just exploded them.

[DBZAOTA482]

Bobbidi would've just exploded them.

Whom may that be?

[CaBrPi]

Bobbidi would've just exploded them.

Whom may that be?

Babidi, Bobbidi, whatever.

He would've used magic and blown up Spopovitch and Yamu's heads if they retreated empty-handed with Kaioshin following.

[Saiga]

Ten strongest characters?

1.) Super Vegetto
2.) Ultimate Gohan
3.) Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
4.) Evil Boo (I don't count his absorptions)
5.) Super Saiyan 3 Goku = Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta
6.) Pure Boo
7.) Fat Boo
8.) Pure Evil Boo
9.) Mr. Boo
10.) Dabra

Maybe I should've only included one form of Boo.

[Gaffer Tape]

but at least Vegeta's actions are justifiable to some extent.

What?! For the love of God, how are his actions in any way justifiable? He let himself be possessed by an evil sorcerer, chose to murder hundreds of innocent people, and purposely allowed the resurrection of a magical powered devil monster just so he could satisfy his own ego. Please, please explain how any of that is justifiable.