Why Is Toei So Unoriginal?

[NeoKING]

I'm pretty sure that everyone has realzied by now that the DBZ movies sans the Broly saga and Movie 13 are just huge alternate retellings of storylines introduced in the actual manga. But, has it ever been addressed as to why Toei does this? Movie 1 was practically stealing from the Raditz ordeal, movie 2 even went so far as to show Wheelo in space after being whacked by Goku's Kaioken x4 Kamehameha, contemplating how he's going to get back into shape but not after getting Goku back the same exact way Vegeta did when he got sent flying after their infamous beam struggle. The list can go on, really. Is this a common practice in Japanese anime movies? Because I've heard that the early One Piece movies did this same practice.

[Fox666]

Yeah, I can think of that sort of stuff in other animes too. I guess it's just easier and cheaper to use what you already have. On the other hand, when they try to make something entirely new on fillers it is never as good as the original.

[JulieYBM]

A part of the reason is probably because production on the films were competing with production with the weekly TV series. The main staff is already busy now they have to worry about two films a year? What's more, Toei does have plenty of other properties that they have to worry about, so that's going to affect production and release schedules, too.

[Thanos]

I think movies 3, 7-11 and 13 are pretty original. But I think they may have had an obligation in terms of releasing the movies every so often, so obviously very little emphasis was put on originality. Either they completely ripped off some of the original stories (1, 2, 4, & 12), or conjured up extensions of existing stories (4, 5, 7, 10 & 11). Most of them were still enjoyable to some extent, though.

[the_abberration]

We should consider ourselves lucky. Sometimes with anime, the movie is just a truncated recap of the arc or storyline that we've already seen. I think I would rather see a Fusion Reborn vs a condensed version of the Buu arc told in 60 - 90 minutes.

[jjgp1112]

Yeah, I can think of that sort of stuff in other animes too. I guess it's just easier and cheaper to use what you already have. On the other hand, when they try to make something entirely new on fillers it is never as good as the original.

Yeah, most original filler always tends to really flanderize the characters. Goku goes from uncultured hick to functioning retard, Chi-Chi goes from overbearing mother/housewife to Axe Crazy psychopath, Krillin becomes George Costanza, etc.

[bleed0range]

Movie 1 rips on raditz stealing gohan
Movie 2 rips on the vegeta and goku fight
Movie 3 rips on saiyans visiting earth and they make him look identical to goku
Movie 4 rip on piccolo
Movie 5 is essentially a freezer clone
Movie 6 rips on mecha freezer
Movie 7 is just more androids ripping on the android arc
Movie 8 I think is all original but brolys form of ssj is eerily similar to that of trunks and super vegeta fighting cell
Movie 9 rips on the gohan perfect cell fight
Movie 10 is pretty original minus the fact that its broly again
Movie 11 is lame but also original
Movie 12 rips a bit on buu witha fat silly form of janemba followed by a non talking meaner thin version (kid buu)... and more fusion although gogeta was awesome so no complaint there.
Movie 13 was a rip on the character babidi releasing buu... having a new character release hildegarn. Tapion is sort of original but obviously somewhat modeled off future trunks.

Anybody know of any other similarites?? This has been on my mind lately with the new movie lol. I hope its more orignal than at least most of these.

[Saiga]

Movie 10 could be seen as recycling Cell's return and the family Kamehameha.

[DBZAOTA482]

Yeah, I can think of that sort of stuff in other animes too. I guess it's just easier and cheaper to use what you already have. On the other hand, when they try to make something entirely new on fillers it is never as good as the original.

Yeah, most original filler always tends to really flanderize the characters. Goku goes from uncultured hick to functioning retard, Chi-Chi goes from overbearing mother/housewife to Axe Crazy psychopath, Krillin becomes George Costanza, etc.

Can someone please give me examples of what TOEI did with Goku that was truly different from how he was portrayed in the manga? This isn't Naruto, you know.

Anyways, I think they resort to rehashing old ideas because the writers simply aren't good at writing a storyline of their own. *cough*GT*cough*

[VegettoEX]

I'm sure the main reason was that it was safe and it was easy.

Yeah, they were also working in conjunction with the regular series, so there was a lot of doubling-up on work during the movie seasons. I'm sure that played a part. But honestly, the movies were going to do very well if they just made something familiar (rather than taking a risk and alienating some of their audience), so why NOT do something familiar?

I suppose on the flip-side you could say they had such a huge audience they were in the perfect position to be able to take a little risk with the plots and still weather any backlash... but why bother?

[Perfect]

I wouldn't call it being unoriginal, really. No single plot at its core is original. What generally makes a story addicting and different is the characters. There's outer layered plot details, such as the setting and whatnot, but in reality, it's just paint. In the case of the first movie, the major complaint is they recycled the kidnapping plot device. It's not even that elaborate really, it's just the device of the antagonist(s) stealing something of value from the protagonist(s), which thereby forces a confrontation. Usually the deuteragonist is the one kidnapped, or at the very least the one accompanying the protagonist (i.e. Batman & Robin). This is just a plot device, not the entirety of the plot, which really isn't all that more complex (no plot is structurally, or even filled in as a solid).

Every single acceptable story follows the same rough eight key points, so let's apply them to the first movie:

I. The Stasis - Introduction of equilibrium whereby the main characters are characterized by living their lives--as previously established in this case.
-So this would be Goku out in the woods screwing around, while his wife and kid are at home.

II. Inciting Trigger - An event that's beyond the protagonist(s)' control, introducing the point of the story often.
-This is the infamous kidnapping scene.

III. The Quest, or First Act Break - Most, or all, of the main characters have been introduced. The basic obstacles and goals of the protagonist(s) and antagonist(s) are made known, the details are usually ironed out in later plot points. The trigger is also through and depicted as either pleasant or detrimental to the protagonist(s). If the cue is pleasant, typically the quest is to increase the pleasantry status. In the case of it being detrimental, it's usually very blatant in that it's a return to the previous status.
-This would be when Goku obtains the Dragon Radar and tells everybody what's going on, setting out to find Gohan.

IV. The midpoint, or Surprise - This is the middle of the second act of the story, taking up most of the middle of the story. Plausible, but unexpected events should take place, rather they be pleasantries or more obstacles. Often the protagonist(s) experience numerous setbacks until this point, when finally a shimmer of hope radiates on them.
-Anywhere from God appearing and explaining things to Piccolo coming to the rescue. Note that Piccolo plays the part of the antihero here.

V. Critical Choice - During this plot point, the main character is faced with an important decision to make. Often times this echoes a reaffirmation of his or her goal. It has to be a conscious decision that impacts the rest of the story.
-Goku and Piccolo's silent team up against Garlic Junior for this one. Piccolo's part is also important at this point, as his role as the foil character shines.

VI. Climax - The highest point of action, transcending all other bouts previously in the story. Generally there is a huge setback that beckons all being lost for the protagonist(s). The climax is always the resultant of the critical choice.
-This would be when Goku takes off his weights and simultaneously attacks Garlic Junior with Piccolo.

VII. Reversal - The result of both the climax and critical choice, whereby the odds either fall in favor of the antagonist(s) or protagonist(s). There's absolutely no deus ex machina; the reversal should be completely probable, and even expected.
-Gohan's rage tipping the odds in favor of the good guys, and ultimately defeating Garlic Junior.

VIII. Resolution - The story wraps up, typically into a new antithesis or natural contemporary stasis. Cliff hangers and other plot devices may also apply, ignoring the former.
-The ending of the movie--Goku leaves the desolated castle with Gohan.

The first Z movie's plot consists of someone of an evil stature wishing to become immortal and rule over time, and inadvertently taking something of value from someone that would have eventually stopped him later down the road by some medium anyway. The hero battles minions and wins, teaming up with his arch nemesis to defeat the big boss. With all hope lost, the expected item of value is remembered by the natural flow of the story and nullifies the evil. There's literally millions of stories just like that, hence why every single story shares a plethora of tropes and plot devices with other almost completely different stories. In Rambo First Blood: Part II the same plot device is utilized when Co is murdered, forcing Rambo to go into a hellbent rage after the Russians and Vietcong. It seems fairly illogical to complain about Gohan being kidnapped as a recycled plot device, because the series, like every story on the planet, recycles hundreds over and over and over. Now if Garlic Junior was Goku's long lost albino Namekian brother that kidnapped Gohan for the sake of utilizing Goku himself, there'd be a legitimate complaint.

[jjgp1112]

Yeah, I can think of that sort of stuff in other animes too. I guess it's just easier and cheaper to use what you already have. On the other hand, when they try to make something entirely new on fillers it is never as good as the original.

Yeah, most original filler always tends to really flanderize the characters. Goku goes from uncultured hick to functioning retard, Chi-Chi goes from overbearing mother/housewife to Axe Crazy psychopath, Krillin becomes George Costanza, etc.

Can someone please give me examples of what TOEI did with Goku that was truly different from how he was portrayed in the manga? This isn't Naruto, you know.

Anyways, I think they resort to rehashing old ideas because the writers simply aren't good at writing a storyline of their own. *cough*GT*cough*

I didn't say different, just exaggerated. That's what flanderizing means.

[Super Sonic]

Toei's not the only company to do things like that. Heck, I remember being a kid in 1991 watching cartoons and seeing this commercial and noticing how similar it sounded to something else, that most guys here born before the late 80s will recognize.

[Perfect]

Toei's not the only company to do things like that. Heck, I remember being a kid in 1991 watching cartoons and seeing this commercial and noticing how similar it sounded to something else, that most guys here born before the late 80s will recognize.

My Little Pony? You'd think they'd at least change the melody so it wasn't such a blunt rehash.

[DBZAOTA482]

Yeah, most original filler always tends to really flanderize the characters. Goku goes from uncultured hick to functioning retard, Chi-Chi goes from overbearing mother/housewife to Axe Crazy psychopath, Krillin becomes George Costanza, etc.

Can someone please give me examples of what TOEI did with Goku that was truly different from how he was portrayed in the manga? This isn't Naruto, you know.

Anyways, I think they resort to rehashing old ideas because the writers simply aren't good at writing a storyline of their own. *cough*GT*cough*

I didn't say different, just exaggerated. That's what flanderizing means.

Wrong.

Flanderization is the process of taking a single (often minor) trait or action, and exaggerating it more and more over time until it completely consumes the character. If it's an already notable character trait(s) simply being empathized rather than the character gradually evolving into it thus actually changing, it's character exaggeration.

Here's examples of Flanderization:

Spongebob Squarepants used to be a naive and eccentric yet intelligent everyman but now he's a gratuitously hyperactive, and obnoxious borderline-gaywad who's not much smarter than Patrick Star before he was flanderized.

Peggy Hill used to be a somewhat smug yet largely intelligent woman who's grasp of the Spanish language was unrefined but plausible enough. In the later seasons, she's completely full of herself and she can't speak a lick of Spanish to save her life.

[worldmonsters]

I think that Toei just doesn't have a lot of creative writers. And why would they, the most stuff comes from Shonen Manga, right? How many times do they have to think of stuff for their own? Yeah filler, but that's just not important enough to have a good writers team on. What they need are people that can churn out scripts as soon as possible, so there just isn't time to actually put thought into something. Think of it this way. Akira Toriyama can sit on his butt for five days and then do two days of making a chapter of like 15-18 pages long. Usually not a lot happens in those pages, so it's easy to at least think of basic things, but Toriyama, I think, had five days to at least let everything simmer. You can't produce the animation for one episode in 2 days.

What I also think happened is that as soon as the chapter hit Shounen Jump (or probably just a little bit earlier) they had to start producing an episode to stay ahead. So they probably have like one day of writing and then storyboards a few days, animating, cellshading, voice acting (I was told they did this after the animating, no idea how that would work), probably some film editing, music, soundeffects, editing a few scenes in from the next episode that are already finished for the next episode and then air it. Probably the whole process of one episode is like a month, but because animators and editors and everything are continually working and producing, the story has to be there as soon as possible and as soon as possible just doesn't deliver anything good most of the time You CAN'T go experimental, because if that fails you have no (or at least not a lot) time to fix everything, because everything has such a tight schedule.

That's my take on it, but probably what also helps is that you could be more unoriginal... but the series wasn't meant to be on video or DVD at the point they were releasing ANYWAY. So why put a lot of effort into something that people were probably only going to watch once. I think that was what happened back then... I mean the Dragon Box was the first time it was released on DVD in Japan right?

Though the movies... if I were to guess... I'd think that BECAUSE the series wasn't really meant to be seen on tape or DVD the movies could be high budget re-tellings. I mean, why not? The Movies were gonna be released on video or laserdisc or whatever, because they weren't as dragged out as the series. And if the series wasn't going to be released... why not make the movies LIKE the series so it captures that familiar feel.

Also, I have rewatched some of the movies recently... but damn, talk about weak storytelling. With some exceptions. I think Movie 13 was pretty good and Movie 8 was... getting somewhere. But EVERY movie is like this: Bad guy comes, good guys beat them, essentially nothing is lost. Movie 7 is probably the worst offender, even though I liked it. Androids come, big fight, end. Some movies have just a little more substance to it, but it misses that Toriyama feel, because like 50% of the movie is the fighting. Which is in minutes time pretty good. There's a good amount of fighting for one movie, but the plot (and interesting part) of all those movies is so short and thin. I'm so glad that the new movie is going to be 90 minutes, because that means more plot And probably a little more fighting :p But WAY more plot, and that is what a Dragon Ball movie needs :p

This turned into a long post, sorry bout that :p