Significant or Negligible? (#18 & ki)

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:32 pm

Yeah, but it just replenishes their energy source, converting it into whatever. It doesn't make them stronger, right? Just helps them catch their breath and heal... or something.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:48 pm

Plus, as far as we know, that particular feature was only built into #19 and #20.

Post by **TripleRach** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:58 pm

Zackarotto wrote:The whole ki system is warped to me, anyway.

We're sure that 8-chan was created from scratch, aren't we? So it's either a plot hole that Toriyama doesn't care to explain or fix, or you can somehow give ki to a machine.

Hmm, I don't know. Murasaki says the Red Ribbon Army is #8's creator(s), but then Gero says the same thing about #17 and #18... Then the chart page of all the Jinzouningen just says #8 was a failure that befriended Gokuu, and no details about his creation or structure.

Zackarotto wrote:How can your ki go up when you take off your boots?! It defies logic! Or, wait. Perhaps the scouting system has the same mesurements, but it's just thrown off when people are slowed down by weights, or something. I just figured out my question.

Scouters are just based on whatever level the person is showing, and not an accurate reading of all of their accessible power. The more power a person holds, the more ki they have, so if wearing weighted clothing reduces your usable power, then I guess it would reduce the amount of ki they're radiating. Or something like that.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:05 pm

The whole deal with 18 donating her energy completly baffles me. Supposedly, 16, 17, and 18 had unlimited energy according to Dr. Gero. But if that's the case shouldn't 18 and 17 be able to donate an unlimited amount of energy as well?

Post by **TripleRach** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:21 pm

That's not how Genkidama works. Actually, I doubt that the donors even have control over how much they lend; just whether or not they will lend.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:29 pm

It's more than just their ability to never tire. If she could donate an infinite amount, that would mean she has an infinite power level. Meaning she could defeat Buu in a trillionth of a second, in her sleep.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:44 pm

Zackarotto wrote:It's more than just their ability to never tire. If she could donate an infinite amount, that would mean she has an infinite power level. Meaning she could defeat Buu in a trillionth of a second, in her sleep.

I suppose a decent real world analogue to the "infinite energy" that the "artificial humans" are supposed to possess would be a 60-watt lightbulb with a power source that never runs dry. Sure, it can keep generating light forever, but it's still just a 60-watt lightbulb -- you can't melt a hole through steel or vaporize a car with it.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:15 pm

#8 in the manga was created and finished with waaaaaaaay before Toriyama explained that Gero created him, and that #8 was an enhanced human. As a result, for filler, the anime had "Dr Frappe" create #8 as a completely artificial robot.

#8, 17 and 18 are all enhanced humans, so they should be able to give off an amount of ki at least equal to that of a regular human. I figured they could give off more for the Genkidama, but when came time to being sensed by the Z crew, they couldn't be singled out since their ki was that of ordinary people.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:23 pm

They had ki, but it was muffled by their machine nature. And when it is said that they have 'infinite' energy it simply means infinite endurance, as machines.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:58 pm

Dayspring wrote:#8, 17 and 18 are all enhanced humans, so they should be able to give off an amount of ki at least equal to that of a regular human.

Really? I mean, #17 and #18 look like ordinary people (apart form the slightly odd eyes), but #8? I've heard of the phrase "a face only a mother can love", but still...

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:05 pm

Well how else would you explain that he was able to donate "ki" to Goku's Genki-Dama?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:01 pm

Anime filler/Toriyama's a bit thick?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:07 pm

You just love be cynical don't you?

Neon Z · Post by **Neon Z** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:34 am

#8 stated in the manga that he was a robot(when the people from the village asked him to live there, IIRC).

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 3:38 am

Neon Z wrote:#8 stated in the manga that he was a robot(when the people from the village asked him to live there, IIRC).

Not only that, but in the Path to Power Android 8 is crushed, and he is shown to be completly artificial. That doesn't mean Toriyama didn't make him a cyborg, but if he did Toei changed it.

Post by **TripleRach** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:59 am

Neon Z wrote:#8 stated in the manga that he was a robot(when the people from the village asked him to live there, IIRC).

Actually, he said "Jinzouningen".

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:09 pm

You shouldn't really be counting the movies anyway. You know that they don't follow any consistencies.

Post by **TripleRach** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:28 pm

Especially the DB movies, which don't try to fit into the series at all, and just retell points in the story.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:38 pm

Definitely true. Just look at the third DB movie. All of the sudden Chiaotzu as an emperor is the one that holds the Tenka-ichi Budokais?!

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:54 pm

Could it be possible that the bombs were some how blocking the cyborg's ki/ human life force? After all, Marron was born after Shenron removed the bombs from them. Mabey all the wiring it took to install the bombs blocked some vital organs?

That brings up another point, what organ of the body is ki produced from?