Form-exclusive moves and character customisation

[Saiga]

Raging Blast 2's character customisation got me thinking, about how despite being able to customize super moves for a character, there were still plenty of moves that were form exclusive. It was one thing to have moves restricted to a higher form, but I find it really weird to have the moves (like Vegeta's Double Gallick Cannon) only available in the lowest form. I can understand why this would be necessary for some moves (Kaio-ken, moves using Cell's tail, Freeza's various rushes) since they wouldn't logically be possible in a different form, but wouldn't it be better to let any move be available at any form as long as they're possible?

[mysticboy]

Yes, that'll allow more moves to choose from. I think they need to allow players to choose the characters' ultimate moves freely also.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I can understand why this would be necessary for some moves (Kaio-ken, moves using Cell's tail, Freeza's various rushes) since they wouldn't logically be possible in a different form, but wouldn't it be better to let any move be available at any form as long as they're possible?

Yes. I'm firmly of the opinion that any technique that doesn't cause an outright contradiction should be available for any form to access for customization, but they should keep separate technique pools for Supers and Ultimates (though the Ultimate pool should be expanded a bit so we can actually customize more than Goku and have a bit of variety).

I have no problem with certain techniques being doubled up for the different pools though. For example, with Vegeta, he could have specific moves set up to be regular techniques accessed by all forms, and some of those moves can also be available in his pool of Ultimates. So you could give base Vegeta the Final Flash as a regular Super, and if you wanted, also give it to him as an Ultimate, though the latter would be stronger and have the typical finishing cutscene to go with it.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So you could give base Vegeta the Final Flash

Vegeta can only use Final Flash in forms beyond Super Saiyan because of the large ki consumption, according to Daizenshuu 7.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Vegeta can only use Final Flash in forms beyond Super Saiyan because of the large ki consumption, according to Daizenshuu 7.

In forms beyond Super Saiyan? Yeeeeah. The Daizenshuu need to tell that to Vegeta and Reacoom then, since in the series alone, it's pretty much an unnamed prototype for the attack. There is also Vegeta's Final Flash on Dr. Raichi and Hatchihyack, so I'm not buying it.

[mysticboy]

The Daizenshuu need to tell that to Vegeta and Reacoom then, since in the series alone, it's pretty much an unnamed prototype for the attack.

To be fair it probably didn't consume so much ki since it was a prototype.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

To be fair it probably didn't consume so much ki since it was a prototype.

One could simply argue that it didn't consume so much ki because he didn't have much to give in comparison at that point in time.

No one in the franchise seems to be too worried about following the rules that have been set forth anyway. Vegeta and Vegeta: GT have been given the Final Flash as a finisher in Heroes for every form except Maoji and SS3, which is what prompted me to use the example to begin with.

[InfernalVegito]

I agree, every form should have every super moves and techniques available that would be a logical fit. Like every form of Son Goku should be able to have Kamehameha or every form of Cell as well.
But maybe it's more of a technical problem that limits it or they just don't care, which I would be inclined to believe more.

[Saiga]

I agree, every form should have every super moves and techniques available that would be a logical fit. Like every form of Son Goku should be able to have Kamehameha or every form of Cell as well.
But maybe it's more of a technical problem that limits it or they just don't care, which I would be inclined to believe more.

I'm pretty sure it's a bit of not caring and caring about the wrong thing: accuracy to the show. Base Vegeta gets "Double Galick Cannon" but not his higher forms because they didn't use it, which I think is silly. Of course, some forms get moves they didn't use in the show, but only because they didn't already show enough variety in that form.

[goku the krump dancer]

I would love to see SSJ3 Goku do the meteor combination.

The only move I could think of that has to remain form specific is Freeza's finisher in his second form because he impales you with his horn which are different in his 1st and 3rd forms and his final form has no horns.

Cell should be able to do his life drain because he did use his tail in GT and if that doesn't work they could pull a Burst Limit and have him absorb energy through his hands.

When it comes to swapping ultimates I think it would be cool if any move could be an ultimate. For example if I swapped Final Flash for a Ki Blast Volley to be Vegeta's finisher, the Final Flash will be done like a regular super and the Ki Blast Volley would be upgraded to something super cinematic kinda like in Ultimate Blast

[mysticboy]

Speaking of Cell, he should have a crap-ton of attacks.

[goku the krump dancer]

Basically this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj-3u2Vfi54.....

[DBZAOTA482]

One word: Aesthetics

Spike has this perfectionist aim of re-creating the anime so they add particular moves depending on which form of each characters. Ever since Sparking METEOR, Spike has been much more concerned with pleasing hardcore fans than gamers in general so they put minimal effort into the gameplay and that's why METEOR is riffed with useless characters.

[DNA]

One word: Aesthetics

Spike has this perfectionist aim of re-creating the anime so they add particular moves depending on which form of each characters. Ever since Sparking METEOR, Spike has been much more concerned with pleasing hardcore fans than gamers in general so they put minimal effort into the gameplay and that's why METEOR is riffed with useless characters.

I agree with you and I've been pretty hard with the Sparking series but I've have somewhat come to terms with it. It's not really a fighting game, it's more like a Dragon Ball simulator, but now the problem rests with what you're saying. They should still improve the gameplay and the engine itself, since things going through other things is a problem of the engine itself (bodies going through the ground, arms going through clothing, etc etc). They try too much to be as accurate to the series as possible but that's simply dumb and boring. I believe they should allow for more customization, Ultimate Tenkaichi was getting close to that but was still very limited. Would you really say you wouldn't like to go all Kaioken with Super Saiyan 3? And imagine the full arsenal Cell would have?