Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:40 pm

To be honest, since I've been on both sides of the debate, I've always tried to look at it from many different angles.

The definitive things we know are:
1) Gohan has the aura of a Super Saiyan after the Budokai.
2) Gohan's angry, but not as angry as he was during the Cell Games.
3) Kaioshin tells Kibito to not underestimate Gohan's potential to release the Z-sword, since he wasn't around to see how incredibly powerful he is.

So really, opinions will continue to differ on this topic considering how interpretations will vary on this part of the Boo saga.
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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:58 am

I look at it this way. Gohan was angry at having his identity exposed as the gold fighter and still had anger at Spopobitchi. He used this minimal amount of anger to go SSJ2. As such his power level was no where near his Cell games power level because he lacked anger. The Daizenshuu statement simply states he lacked anger it does not state he had none altogether. This way of viewing it does not contradict anything and it explains why he could not ascend to SSJ2 past the Budokai. It would seem Gohan's love for Videl sparks something in him. He simply wasn't thinking about Videl when fighting Dabura or Majin Buu.
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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by Son_Gohan » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:28 am

Interestingly enough, one of the anime guides does touch on Gohan fighting to avenge Videl in his match with Dabura.

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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by Legendary Saiya-Jin » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:07 am

freezamite wrote:It was simply because Toriyama re-thinked the whole scenario. The same reason why KaiohShin was ultra powerful during the tournament, and turned into a useless fighter at Babidi's ship.
It's as easy as that. There is no explanation of why Gohan lost his SSJ2 form other than Toriyama changing his mind.
Even if Super Saiya-Jin II hadn't been "invented" yet, the concept of ascension had already existed in Cell Games and was heavily mentioned even before Gokuu went SSJ2 briefly against Yakon.

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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:02 am

Son_Gohan wrote:Interestingly enough, one of the anime guides does touch on Gohan fighting to avenge Videl in his match with Dabura.
That just further complicates things since Gohan does not look like a SSJ2 at all when he fought Dabura. SSJ2's have very distinct differences from SSJ's
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by hleV » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:05 pm

This is one of those topics that never reach a final conclusion. One can have an opinion, but those are never good enough to fit to everyone. Either we get an explanation in whatever future Dragon Ball media (Chōzenshū, please!), or we're left with different opinions/no opinions at all.

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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:32 pm

I would appreciate it if the Chozenshuu actually drew Gohan correctly if he really is a SSJ2 in that fight. It would also make a bit more sense power scaling-wise. Goku did say Dabura was stronger than he thought when he previously compared him to Cell. Although he did remark Dabura's technique as possible magic.
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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by Mystic Gohan » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:03 pm

Goku says that "Dabura is stronger than I imagined" in Herms's translation right? I believe the Viz release says that his magic makes him a far "tougher" opponent. No offense intended to Herms, but I feel that translation may be a bit better. Magic shouldn't actually make you stronger, because Babidi has fearsome magic by Kaioshin's own admission, but he is very weak with his actual power.

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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by hleV » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:35 pm

Mystic Gohan wrote:Goku says that "Dabura is stronger than I imagined" in Herms's translation right? I believe the Viz release says that his magic makes him a far "tougher" opponent. No offense intended to Herms, but I feel that translation may be a bit better. Magic shouldn't actually make you stronger, because Babidi has fearsome magic by Kaioshin's own admission, but he is very weak with his actual power.
Herms' translation is more literal.

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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by coola » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:50 pm

One of things i hope Kai will fix, it shouldn`t be too hard to drawn lightings into existing footage.
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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by Herms » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:58 pm

Mystic Gohan wrote:Goku says that "Dabura is stronger than I imagined" in Herms's translation right?
Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
I believe the Viz release says that his magic makes him a far "tougher" opponent. No offense intended to Herms, but I feel that translation may be a bit better. Magic shouldn't actually make you stronger, because Babidi has fearsome magic by Kaioshin's own admission, but he is very weak with his actual power.
Well, the word in question is 強い/tsuyoi (or rather tsuyee, Goku's hick pronunciation of it), meaning "strong", "mighty", etc. You could translate it as "tough", to the extent that "strong" and "tough" are seen as interchangeable. In DB they sometimes use the actual English word "tough" (タフ), so I try and keep the two terms seperate in my translations.

Maybe Goku saying Dabra's stronger than he thought because he uses magic contradicts Kaioshin's description of Babidi...but that's what he says. It's not my job to try and make the dialogue make more sense than it does in the original.
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Re: Reason why Gohan didn't use SSj2 against Dabra/Boo?

Post by Undertaker » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:37 pm

Yeah, Gohan was a SSjin vs Dabura. That's a fact.

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