Are V-Jump power levels reliable

[dbzfan7]

I honestly don't think they are at all after the freeza saga and that's if you believe in the free saga power levels which are the same as the daizenshuu power levels

[Son_Gohan]

The first one is a fake and the others only pertain to a videogame.

[dbzfan7]

The first one is a fake and the others only pertain to a videogame.

Thanks, I took the first one down. I wasn't really sure if it was real or not but I put it up anyways in case it was.

[Fox666]

Like it has already been mentioned, they are from a videogame. So they may not be meant to be taken in account for the original series.

[Kaboom]

No, they predate and conflict with more recent official things like the SEG multipliers for Super Saiyan 2 and three, and they're really just there to serve as hype for video games. But like I pointed out last time the topic came up, there's an interesting thing about these three powers. The ones for Coola and Broly are each possible on their own, but they're incompatible with each other.

The one for Coola would require very large and rapid gains in power. With Coola at 470 million, to beat him so easily Goku would be at least somewhere between 500 and 600 million, probably closer to the latter. And keep in mind that this would be Goku, at the latest, right after the Trunks arc, and very very early into the 3 years of training for the Androids. So he hasn't even done that much since Namek, yet he's still already so much stronger. Then factor in the rest of the training period, then the Room of Spirit and Time, and Goku's going to be INSANELY more powerful if he keeps growing in power at that rate.

But the 1.4 billion number for Broly requires the opposite trend; one where increases in power are relatively reserved and small, and so are the gaps between characters' power. That way you're just barely surpassing the one billion mark by the time the Cell Games are approaching. Even if the heroes in Movie 8 weren't QUITE as strong as their Cell Games self, it's still too tight of a fit.

I could go into further detail, but the gist of it is that it's next to impossible for both levels to work together.

As for Gogeta, the main thing keeping that from working is the official SSj3 multiplier. Goku at 500 million minimum in Movie 6, then 8 times stronger for SSj3 equals 4 billion. That's a teeeensy bit stronger than Gogeta's 2.5 billion, and that's not even accounting for the obvious fact that Movie 12 Goku is a LOT stronger than Movie 5 Goku, even without Super Saiyan 2 or 3.

[Herms]

Well, the Broli one also got used in that one weird scouter-based game, so that's...I don't know, something. That game also had some other (very low) post-Freeza BP numbers. All this probably needs to be added to the Kanzenshuu BP guide. Someday.

Near as I can figure, with Coola they basically just multiplied Freeza's BP by 4, then Broli is 10 times as strong as Super Saiyan Goku during the Freeza battle, and Gogeta is just a billion higher then that. Then they just filed the serial numbers off the Coola/Broli numbers to avoid making it too obvious what they were doing.

and that's if you believe in the free saga power levels

What are those?

[dbzfan7]

Well, the Broli one also got used in that one weird scouter-based game, so that's...I don't know, something. That game also had some other (very low) post-Freeza BP numbers. All this probably needs to be added to the Kanzenshuu BP guide. Someday.

Near as I can figure, with Coola they basically just multiplied Freeza's BP by 4, then Broli is 10 times as strong as Super Saiyan Goku during the Freeza battle, and Gogeta is just a billion higher then that. Then they just filed the serial numbers off the Coola/Broli numbers to avoid making it too obvious what they were doing.

and that's if you believe in the free saga power levels

What are those?

The power levels listed in the Daizenshuu 7. Some people choose to believe in them and some choose not to.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well last I checked the V-jump power levels put Kami at 220. Kid Goku fought Piccolo at 260. Kami made Goku look like a fool even after training with Popo whom also toyed with Goku. Kami > Goku(Piccolo Damaio Arc), naturally these V-jump scans are unreliable. Furthermore even the Daizenshuu has 1 discrepancy, it's Raditz at 1,500 which also can't work since he feared a Mankankosappo at a level of 1,300+. Raditz is between 1,200 and 1,480. He is likley 1,220 since Toriyama said Raditz was slightly stronger than a Saibaman. I also recall V-jump putting Popo at 1,030... WHAT!?

[Kaboom]

Well last I checked the V-jump power levels put Kami at 220. Kid Goku fought Piccolo at 260. Kami made Goku look like a fool even after training with Popo whom also toyed with Goku. Kami > Goku(Piccolo Damaio Arc), naturally these V-jump scans are unreliable. Furthermore even the Daizenshuu has 1 discrepancy, it's Raditz at 1,500 which also can't work since he feared a Mankankosappo at a level of 1,300+. Raditz is between 1,200 and 1,480. He is likley 1,220 since Toriyama said Raditz was slightly stronger than a Saibaman. I also recall V-jump putting Popo at 1,030... WHAT!?

That particular V-Jump power chart pertained mainly to the Saiyan arc, which was where the manga was at the time. So you could suppose that things have simply changed over time for Kami and Popo. Perhaps Kami has lost power over the years, while Popo's gotten a lot stronger from training Goku and the humans.

And Raditz at 1500 works fine. Always has, still does, always will.

[Saiga]

Well last I checked the V-jump power levels put Kami at 220. Kid Goku fought Piccolo at 260. Kami made Goku look like a fool even after training with Popo whom also toyed with Goku. Kami > Goku(Piccolo Damaio Arc), naturally these V-jump scans are unreliable. Furthermore even the Daizenshuu has 1 discrepancy, it's Raditz at 1,500 which also can't work since he feared a Mankankosappo at a level of 1,300+. Raditz is between 1,200 and 1,480. He is likley 1,220 since Toriyama said Raditz was slightly stronger than a Saibaman. I also recall V-jump putting Popo at 1,030... WHAT!?

Yeah, but Popo's dialogue implies that Goku is stronger than him and Popo is just blitzing him because he can hide his presence and stuff. God flicks him away when he's exhausted from the thin air, so Goku's PL could be much lower when he gets hit. I don't see a problem with Kami being 220. Popo's 1,030 makes sense if that's him after training with the humans for a year, since they all ended up above that. If 220 can't work for you for Kami's first appearance, remember that these battle powers were all given in the Saiyan Arc. Maybe he got weaker with old age, having let himself go after Goku surpassed him?

Raditz's PL makes sense. Piccolo's Makankosappo was still gathering ki, and the last it was reported at was 1,440. I have no problem with that piercing Raditz when it hit him square in the chest without him blocking at all. Plus Gohan had just injured the same area with a headbutt. But if that's not enough for you, you could say that Piccolo's ki kept increasing until it was over 1,500.

Darn it, Kaboom!

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Perhaps Kami has lost power over the years, while Popo's gotten a lot stronger from training Goku and the humans.

That's exactly how I see it.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well last I checked the V-jump power levels put Kami at 220. Kid Goku fought Piccolo at 260. Kami made Goku look like a fool even after training with Popo whom also toyed with Goku. Kami > Goku(Piccolo Damaio Arc), naturally these V-jump scans are unreliable. Furthermore even the Daizenshuu has 1 discrepancy, it's Raditz at 1,500 which also can't work since he feared a Mankankosappo at a level of 1,300+. Raditz is between 1,200 and 1,480. He is likley 1,220 since Toriyama said Raditz was slightly stronger than a Saibaman. I also recall V-jump putting Popo at 1,030... WHAT!?

That particular V-Jump power chart pertained mainly to the Saiyan arc, which was where the manga was at the time. So you could suppose that things have simply changed over time for Kami and Popo. Perhaps Kami has lost power over the years, while Popo's gotten a lot stronger from training Goku and the humans.

And Raditz at 1500 works fine. Always has, still does, always will.

Umm how does 1,330 > 1,500 make sense to you? Even Piccolo's second Mankankosappo was lower than 1,500 and it killed him. Furthermore I don't see Kami losing that much power. Mr Popo surpassing Kami just doesn't sit well with me. I also find it a little hard to believe that Nappa at a level of 4,000 put up a decent fight against Goku's power level of 8,000+, he was more than twice as strong.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Umm how does 1,330 > 1,500 make sense to you?

Piccolo's second Makankosappo was oven 1.300 (1.480 in the anime), and it's a piercing attack, so yeah, Raditz at 1.500 works fine.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Umm how does 1,330 > 1,500 make sense to you?

Piccolo's second Makankosappo was oven 1.300 (1.480 in the anime), and it's a piercing attack, so yeah, Raditz at 1.500 works fine.

Piccolo's first was 1,330 in the manga and Raditz says he is incapable of taking the attack. Piercing or not, Raditz level would still be decently higher.

[Saiga]

Kuririn cut off Freeza's tail and his power level wasn't over 1,000,000.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kuririn cut off Freeza's tail and his power level wasn't over 1,000,000.

True but the Mankankosappo has failed where as the Kienzon hasn't. The Kienzon could be indestructible. You have a good point though Ill give you that.

[Mystic Gohan]

Piccolo Daimao > Kami according to one of those V-Jumps, I don't take them seriously myself.

[CaBrPi]

Kuririn cut off Freeza's tail and his power level wasn't over 1,000,000.

True but the Mankankosappo has failed where as the Kienzon hasn't. The Kienzon could be indestructible. You have a good point though Ill give you that.

Where has it failed? Sure, Raditz dodged it, but practically everyone that the Kienzan was used on dodged it...

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kuririn cut off Freeza's tail and his power level wasn't over 1,000,000.

True but the Mankankosappo has failed where as the Kienzon hasn't. The Kienzon could be indestructible. You have a good point though Ill give you that.

Where has it failed? Sure, Raditz dodged it, but practically everyone that the Kienzan was used on dodged it...

The Kienzon has cut through things that should be much more powerful than it, I.E. Freeza's tail. I recall the mankan... screw this, special beam canon has failed to cause damage before.

[Rocketman]

The SBC was only used twice, both times against Raditz.