But it doesn't seem to work...mattymoron wrote:To me, it's just 500x. 10 (from Great Ape) x 50 (Golden Great Ape).
SSJ4 and its multiplier
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Legendary Saiya-Jin
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
Bejiita was able to overpower and annihilate Dodoria by a 9% difference; he over had a significance advantage over Zaabon, took a few hits but still had a large advantage over him by 4% difference. Why can't it just be 1.25x from SSJ3? Granted, I think it's also possible Gokuu gained additional strength from having his adulthood restored in SSJ4, but I don't think that can necessarily count for SSJ4 in general. (Not that I'd really like to consider that in this conversation anyway, since I still don't see why it has to be beyond 1.25x from SSJ3.)TheMightyOzaru wrote:Considering the fact that Baby Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku, SSJ4 Goku would have to be 10x stronger than a SSJ3 bare minimum.
Also, if I remember correctly, didn't Oozaru Bebi have to get zapped by the Blutz waves numerous times to increase/ revitalize his power? Maybe he didn't get the completed, full 10x power boost from the Oozaru transformation because he didn't get enough Blutz waves/ was weakened in battle prior/ is infested with Bebi/ didn't have a tail.
Last edited by Legendary Saiya-Jin on Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
Baby Vegeta was already stronger than Goku's Super Saiyan 3. Would that make Baby Vegeta something like 1.125x Super Saiyan 3?Legendary Saiya-Jin wrote:Bejiita was able to overpower and annihilate Dodoria by a 9% difference; he over had a significance advantage over Zaabon, took a few hits but still had a large advantage over him by 4% difference. Why can't it just be 1.25x from SSJ3?
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Legendary Saiya-Jin
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
You might think it's stupid, and me in the process 
But sure, why not? Gokuu seemed to think having his tail restored would've made a difference.
But sure, why not? Gokuu seemed to think having his tail restored would've made a difference.-
DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
Vegeta-Baby made SS3 Goku his bitch, meaning that there was a big difference between their powers. There should also be a significant difference in power between Vegeta-Baby and Super Baby 2, since Super Baby 2 was Vegeta-Baby with the energy of the whole Earth, including Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Bra. However, Golden Oozaru could even hurt Super Baby 2 with one hit, and Baby also noticed a change in Goku's ki when he was transforming from Golden Oozaru to Super Saiyan 4. And then, Super Saiyan 4 Goku made Super Baby 2 his bitch.
So, I can't see the x500 multiplier working for Golden Oozaru or Super Saiyan 4. It should be more than that, probably, for Golden Oozaru, it could be SS3 x10, meaning it would make Goku 4.000 times stronger. Super Saiyan 4 should be stronger than Golden Oozaru, due to the change in Goku's ki.
So, I can't see the x500 multiplier working for Golden Oozaru or Super Saiyan 4. It should be more than that, probably, for Golden Oozaru, it could be SS3 x10, meaning it would make Goku 4.000 times stronger. Super Saiyan 4 should be stronger than Golden Oozaru, due to the change in Goku's ki.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
What did he remark in regards to his Golden Oozaru-->SSJ4, if I may ask?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:However, Golden Oozaru could even hurt Super Baby 2 with one hit, and Baby also noticed a change in Goku's ki when he was transforming from Golden Oozaru to Super Saiyan 4. And then, Super Saiyan 4 Goku made Super Baby 2 his bitch.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
(After making a surprised expression)Legendary Saiya-Jin wrote:What did he remark in regards to his Golden Oozaru-->SSJ4, if I may ask?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:However, Golden Oozaru could even hurt Super Baby 2 with one hit, and Baby also noticed a change in Goku's ki when he was transforming from Golden Oozaru to Super Saiyan 4. And then, Super Saiyan 4 Goku made Super Baby 2 his bitch.
"Ah? What ki is this?"
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
Let's not forget Bebi thought he could /beat/ SSJ4 Gokuu; I think it's safe to say he was possibly surprised by this new sort of transformation, since he or his host had probably never seen the likes of before. Not saying he didn't sense a particular ki, but maybe the form emitting something unusual.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
Ok lets put this in perspective. Baby Vegeta First Form > SSJ3 Goku by just a little bit. Baby Vegeta second form is decently stronger. Well over 1.25x stronger than his previous state. Baby Vegeta Final Form made SSJ3 Goku with a tail, and maybe a Zenkai, his bitch. Something people also seem to be forgetting is Baby Vegeta actually damaged Golden Oozaru Goku. It wasn't significant but he was able to hurt him none the less meaning they aren't too far apart in terms of power. SSJ4 Goku has to be 10x SSJ3 bare minimum for this to make sense. I also don't see why SSJ4 has to equal the Golden Oozaru. To me that sounds absurd.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
No, Baby was a lot stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.Baby Vegeta First Form > SSJ3 Goku by just a little bit.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
So was Bejiita against Dodoria.
Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
Isn't it official that it is 10x SSJ 3?
" You can take control of my mind and my body, but there is one thing a Saiyan always keep... his PRIDE! "-Vegeta
Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
No, that's just been a fan-favorite and is what was adopted for the recent Goku Vs Superman thingamajig.JP6GAMER wrote:Isn't it official that it is 10x SSJ 3?
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
But why did Death Battle use this calculation?
" You can take control of my mind and my body, but there is one thing a Saiyan always keep... his PRIDE! "-Vegeta
Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
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Last edited by Fox666 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
Goku did seem to think that, since it's what the Elder Kaioshin implied would happen, but when he actually tried to fight Baby, Baby told him he hadn't gotten any stronger at all. If I remember right, both Goku and Elder Kaioshin were confused about why it hadn't worked. Of course, I suppose you could say it did work, and that he had got stronger, but that since Baby was now in a different form as well, he was stronger enough that it seemed like Goku hadn't gotten any stronger? Feels a little awkward compared to just taking Baby's word for it, but that's GT for you.Legendary Saiya-Jin wrote:You might think it's stupid, and me in the process
Actually, though, I don't think this affects what I said. Even if Goku had gotten stronger from having a tail, Baby was still stronger than that at the time, so you'd still have to squeeze him somewhere between Super-Saiyan-3-Goku-With-A-Tail and Golden Oozaru.
I think we indirectly gave them the idea during our research. They thought it was logical to combine the Super Saiyan multiplier with the Oozaru multiplier, but this would only result in a Super Saiyan 4 that's a bit stronger than Super Saiyan 3; and as I mentioned above, fitting both characters into such small gaps seems light a tight fit. In the end, they settled on applying the Oozaru multiplier on top of the Super Saiyan 3 one instead.JP6GAMER wrote:But why did Death Battle use this calculation?
I suppose it is possible for the multiplier to be smaller, so long as Baby's is equally smaller. Golden Oozaru being five times stronger than Super Saiyan 3/Baby's third form should also work, for instance. But they could also be fifteen times stronger than Super Saiyan 3 for all we know. There's nothing really to go on, and they had to settle on something for the purpose of the video.
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
Even if the difference between SS3 Goku & Vegeta-Baby was only by 9%, Baby transformed two more times, and became a lot stronger. And also, Baby had to transform into an Oozaru to surpass SS4 Goku, which would make him more than 10 times stronger.Legendary Saiya-Jin wrote:So was Bejiita against Dodoria.
That's correct.Bussani wrote:Goku did seem to think that, since it's what the Elder Kaioshin implied would happen, but when he actually tried to fight Baby, Baby told him he hadn't gotten any stronger at all. If I remember right, both Goku and Elder Kaioshin were confused about why it hadn't worked.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Legendary Saiya-Jin
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
Oozaru Bebi had to keep getting zapped by Blutz Waves to recharge/ revitalize/ increase his strength; perhaps implying he didn't get the full x10 boost.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:And also, Baby had to transform into an Oozaru to surpass SS4 Goku, which would make him more than 10 times stronger.
Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
Maybe Vegeta's not having a tail somehow hurt the amount of power Baby got from transforming?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: SSJ4 and its multiplier
No, the only time that Oozaru Baby got an extra dose of Bruits Waves after the transformation was when Baby was unconscious, and had to take a dose by Bulma to refill his energy.Legendary Saiya-Jin wrote:Oozaru Bebi had to keep getting zapped by Blutz Waves to recharge/ revitalize/ increase his strength; perhaps implying he didn't get the full x10 boost.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:And also, Baby had to transform into an Oozaru to surpass SS4 Goku, which would make him more than 10 times stronger.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.