SSJ4 and its multiplier

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

I really like the idea of it being 1.25x from SSJ3, and just the same power as Golden Oozaru; it's simple and tangible in regards to being different than SSJ3; as much sense as Toei logic goes. The only thing I wish is that SSJ4 wasn't something so easily re-accessible like GT did so that SSJ1-3 didn't become so useless; it would have been more interesting to see if it had to keep being unlocked through Oozaru transformations, thus making it harder/ riskier to use than SSJ3, but if pulled off correctly, would be a less draining, slightly more powerful version of FPSSJ3. Perhaps Gokuu's SSJ4 could have been more rare that way, and maybe put Bejiita at a surprising advantage some point later in the series, since he knew how to control Oozaru better than Gokuu. It could be the first thing he finally trumps Gokuu in, just this once.

Just think, it would probably make Ultimate Gohan /still/ stronger than Buu Saga Gokuu if he somehow went SSJ4.

[Mystic Gohan]

I believe the GT Perfect Files says that the SSjin 4 form brings your power to it's limits, so it is not a set multiplier.

[TheMightyOzaru]

SSJ4 is generally accepted to be 10x SSJ3. However lets make this even more believable. If you notice the Golden Oozaru is 500x base. Well if SSJ4 is 10x as strong as SSJ3 that would make SSJ4 8x as strong as the Golden Oozaru. What's the difference between SSJ and SSJ3? Oh yes its 8x. It would seem that the SSJ4 does bring out the limits of the Saiyan even further by going off the Oozaru. It takes the full 400x power increase of SSJ3, which is a Saiyans maximum, and multiplies that by the Oozaru which is basically a catalyst for the pinnacle of Saiyan power.

[hleV]

I believe the GT Perfect Files says that the SSjin 4 form brings your power to it's limits, so it is not a set multiplier.

Daizenshū says that SSJ3 brings a Saiyan's hidden powers to its limits, and yet it's a multiplier.

[Herms]

I believe the GT Perfect Files says that the SSjin 4 form brings your power to it's limits, so it is not a set multiplier.

True, but Daizenshuu 7 says the same thing about Super Saiyan 3.

If Super Saiyan 3 Goku is weaker than Baby, and Golden Oozaru Baby is about equal to Super Saiyan 4 Goku, then shouldn't the difference between Super Saiyan 3 and 4 be greater than x10? Assuming that Baby is already in some sort of quasi-Super Saiyan state already, so that the difference in power between his human and Golden Oozaru forms is just x10. If not then presumably there'd be a greater than x500 difference between SSj3 and SSj4 Goku, for him to be able to keep up with Golden Oozaru Baby.

But we can only assume that the x10 Oozaru multiplier and the x50 Super Saiyan multiplier "stack". Maybe doing the two transformations at once only makes you, say, 60 times as powerful. And Baby's weird; maybe the ordinary and/or Super Saiyan multipliers don't apply to him for whatever reason. I do think "something greater than x10" is the best guess we have, but it's still based on a lot of assumptions.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I believe the GT Perfect Files says that the SSjin 4 form brings your power to it's limits, so it is not a set multiplier.

True, but Daizenshuu 7 says the same thing about Super Saiyan 3.

If Super Saiyan 3 Goku is weaker than Baby, and Golden Oozaru Baby is about equal to Super Saiyan 4 Goku, then shouldn't the difference between Super Saiyan 3 and 4 be greater than x10? Assuming that Baby is already in some sort of quasi-Super Saiyan state already, so that the difference in power between his human and Golden Oozaru forms is just x10. If not then presumably there'd be a greater than x500 difference between SSj3 and SSj4 Goku, for him to be able to keep up with Golden Oozaru Baby. But Baby's weird; maybe the ordinary Oozaru multiplier doesn't apply to him for whatever reason.

I was always under the impression that Baby Vegeta was a SSJ.

[Mystic Gohan]

I should have worded my post properly. It doesn't have to be a set multiplier. Also, it's pretty evident that GT and DBZ don't work in the same universe, so SSjin 3 can bring you to your limit in DBZ, but not in GT.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I should have worded my post properly. It doesn't have to be a set multiplier. Also, it's pretty evident that GT and DBZ don't work in the same universe, so SSjin 3 can bring you to your limit in DBZ, but not in GT.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion. Its about as consistent as the DBZ anime. Honestly I view SSJ3 as your maximum limits in humanoid form. SSJ4 takes the Oozaru as a base template and SSJ4 multiplies that by the Saiyans maximum humanoid potential, SSJ3, and makes for a Saiyans true limits.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

I like to think that SSJ4 is more than 500x that of your base form. If SSj3 is 400x your base and Goku couldn't keep up with Baby-Vegeta in all of his forms, then it would make sense for SSj4 to be beyond 500x. Maybe it's SSj2 x Oozaru= SSj4. That would explain why he was able to keep up with Oozaru Baby-Vegeta. It would seem overkill if it was SSj3 x Oozaru.

[Mystic Gohan]

I should have worded my post properly. It doesn't have to be a set multiplier. Also, it's pretty evident that GT and DBZ don't work in the same universe, so SSjin 3 can bring you to your limit in DBZ, but not in GT.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion. Its about as consistent as the DBZ anime. Honestly I view SSJ3 as your maximum limits in humanoid form. SSJ4 takes the Oozaru as a base template and SSJ4 multiplies that by the Saiyans maximum humanoid potential, SSJ3, and makes for a Saiyans true limits.

GT compared to the DBZ manga is full of plotholes, anime too.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I like to think that SSJ4 is more than 500x that of your base form. If SSj3 is 400x your base and Goku couldn't keep up with Baby-Vegeta in all of his forms, then it would make sense for SSj4 to be beyond 500x. Maybe it's SSj2 x Oozaru= SSj4. That would explain why he was able to keep up with Oozaru Baby-Vegeta. It would seem overkill if it was SSj3 x Oozaru.

Considering the fact that Baby Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku, SSJ4 Goku would have to be 10x stronger than a SSJ3 bare minimum.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

I like to think that SSJ4 is more than 500x that of your base form. If SSj3 is 400x your base and Goku couldn't keep up with Baby-Vegeta in all of his forms, then it would make sense for SSj4 to be beyond 500x. Maybe it's SSj2 x Oozaru= SSj4. That would explain why he was able to keep up with Oozaru Baby-Vegeta. It would seem overkill if it was SSj3 x Oozaru.

Considering the fact that Baby Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku, SSJ4 Goku would have to be 10x stronger than a SSJ3 bare minimum.

Isn't 4,000x a little too much? 1,000 seems about right.

[Saiga]

Depends on how much stronger you think Baby got from becoming a Great Ape. Becoming a little over twice as strong doesn't really seem like it should be enough for Goku to stand up to Great Ape Baby.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I like to think that SSJ4 is more than 500x that of your base form. If SSj3 is 400x your base and Goku couldn't keep up with Baby-Vegeta in all of his forms, then it would make sense for SSj4 to be beyond 500x. Maybe it's SSj2 x Oozaru= SSj4. That would explain why he was able to keep up with Oozaru Baby-Vegeta. It would seem overkill if it was SSj3 x Oozaru.

Considering the fact that Baby Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku, SSJ4 Goku would have to be 10x stronger than a SSJ3 bare minimum.

Isn't 4,000x a little too much? 1,000 seems about right.

Well considering what I had just stated before, no I don't think its too much. 4,000, to me, is perfect. Not too high, not too low.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Hmm... I wonder how strong 3rd form Baby-Vegeta is. If first form is even with SSj3 Goku, then 3rd from would have to be more than 700x. That would make Great Ape Baby = 7,000x the power. Uh... I guess SSj4 Goku's 1000x powers are not enough to overcome him. Hmm.... (It doesn't compute)

[Saiga]

I see Baby's forms as Super Saiyan stages. So if first form Baby is worth 400 Gokus, then third form is 3,200 Gokus. x10 Oozaru boost makes that 32,000 Gokus. Golden Oozaru Goku would be 4,000 Gokus, so SS4 could be something like 8x Golden Oozaru.

EDIT: Actually, I know. Make SS4 10x Golden Oozaru and work backwards. 40,000 Gokus for both, so 3rd form Baby Vegeta is 4,000 Gokus, so 1st form is 500 Gokus. Easy!

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

I see Baby's forms as Super Saiyan stages. So if first form Baby is worth 400 Gokus, then third form is 3,200 Gokus. x10 Oozaru boost makes that 32,000 Gokus. Golden Oozaru Goku would be 4,000 Gokus, so SS4 could be something like 8x Golden Oozaru.

I guess I could see that way. Never thought of that. I've always thought that SSj4 was the combination of both powers of SSj x Oozaru (50x10). Then I thought about it a bit and thought maybe that was not enough so I moved up from SSj to SSj2. But it seems that wasn't enough either.

[Pantalones]

If Baby-Vegeta's forms are like Super Saiyan stages, though, then his Golden Oozaru wouldn't be 10x his third form but 10x his first (SSj1 equivalent) form. Unless you're figuring that Golden Oozaru is actually stronger than just Oozaru times Super Saiyan, anyway.

[Saiga]

If Baby-Vegeta's forms are like Super Saiyan stages, though, then his Golden Oozaru wouldn't be 10x his third form but 10x his first (SSj1 equivalent) form. Unless you're figuring that Golden Oozaru is actually stronger than just Oozaru times Super Saiyan, anyway.

I view it as 10x Super Saiyan 3, yes. Otherwise Goku would only be as strong as Baby's first form as a Golden Oozaru.

[mattymoron]

To me, it's just 500x. 10 (from Great Ape) x 50 (Golden Great Ape).