Ultimate Gohan not in GT and possibly Battle of Gods?

[TheMightyOzaru]

He is referring to EoZ Goku. I think it goes like this
1.) Goku
2.) Vegeta
3.) Uub
4.) Gohan( I think Gohan lost his mystic form, if he didnt he is in 2nd place unless Vegeta managed to attain SSJ3 within that 10 year time frame. If thats the case he is 3rd)
5.) Good Buu

[Rocketman]

Goku's potential is less than Gohan's. He can never, ever, ever catch Mystic Gohan no matter how much MOUNTAIN TRAINING he does.

[Insertclevername]

I don't see how SSJ3 Vegeta is anywhere close to Ultimate Gohan.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gohan has more dormant potential not more potential in general. Saiyans or really any character in the series has limitless potential. I guess them constantly growing in power didn't tip you off. SSJ3 Vegeta 10 years later is stronger than Gohan.

[Son_Gohan]

Gohan has more dormant potential not more potential in general. Saiyans or really any character in the series has limitless potential. I guess them constantly growing in power didn't tip you off. SSJ3 Vegeta 10 years later is stronger than Gohan.

They're interchangeable, both represent the same thing. The story has made clear that limits exist, it is why Saiyans end up with 3 SSJ forms instead of just constantly growing in power in the original state. They only overcame their limits through further transformations, and we know that they do not have an unlimited amount of new SSJ forms to rely on; SSJ3 is the final stage and should naturally represent how strong they could get.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gohan has more dormant potential not more potential in general. Saiyans or really any character in the series has limitless potential. I guess them constantly growing in power didn't tip you off. SSJ3 Vegeta 10 years later is stronger than Gohan.

They're interchangeable, both represent the same thing. The story has made clear that limits exist, it is why Saiyans end up with 3 SSJ forms instead of just constantly growing in power in the original state. They only overcame their limits through further transformations, and we know that they do not have an unlimited amount of new SSJ forms to rely on; SSJ3 is the final stage and should naturally represent how strong they could get.

The story makes it clear that these guys can grow indefinitely. Thats what is clear. SSJ3 is the maximum SSJ can increase your power. If SSJ3 was there limit eventually there SSJ form would make SSJ3 useless and that makes 0 sense. All dormant potential is is more power readily available at one time. If Gohan were to train as often as Goku then he would be stronger but since he is a slacker Goku inevitably surpassed him. This explains why they don't grow in their original state? Huh last I checked they constantly get stronger in base form. I guess Goku training after Buu means nothing to you?
EDIT: Also if thats not enough:
Akira Toriyama:"When it comes to battle, the most important thing is KI SIZE, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe"
Toriyama makes it pretty clear that Goku is the strongest. If thats not enough, Goku is stated to be the number 1 strongest in the universe in a section called Toriyam's Best in one of the guides. Gohan isn't all he is cracked up to be.

[Son_Gohan]

Super Saiyan 3 is the maximum the Saiyan can naturally increase their power period, that's what the description in Daizenshuu 7 states it to be, and even in the manga the form is called "The Limit".

Dormant potential dictates how strong the character can become. A person couldn't reach the strongest they could possibly get at a stage in life earlier than their physical prime would be. It is only there that their potential reaches its peak and would remain until much later in life where they'd start losing the strength they'd have access to. I was referring to the original SSJ form. They hit a limit which they call the "Super Saiyan Wall", which is why SSJ2 was introduced. Since SSJ already multiplies their base strength, a Saiyan's power would only need to be partitioned between those two states if there really was no limit, but the fact is they need subsequent SSJ forms to continue growing stronger. Once they lose that option, that's where their power stops.

Toriyama's memory is not all it's cracked up to be, as he's expressed in interviews.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Super Saiyan 3 is the maximum the Saiyan can naturally increase their power period, that's what the description in Daizenshuu 7 states it to be, and even in the manga the form is called "The Limit".

Dormant potential dictates how strong the character can become. A person couldn't reach the strongest they could possibly get at a stage in life earlier than their physical prime would be. It is only there that their potential reaches its peak and would remain until much later in life where they'd start losing the strength they'd have access to. I was referring to the original SSJ form. They hit a limit which they call the "Super Saiyan Wall", which is why SSJ2 was introduced. Since SSJ already multiplies their base strength, a Saiyan's power would only need to be partitioned between those two states if there really was no limit, but the fact is they need subsequent SSJ forms to continue growing stronger. Once they lose that option, that's where their power stops.

Toriyama's memory is not all it's cracked up to be, as he's expressed in interviews.

The Daizenshuu 7 states that SSJ3 brings out the hidden power out to its maximum:
The strongest form of Super Saiya-jin, which draws the hidden power of a Saiya-jin out to its limits. However, due to the large energy consumption of this form, outside of the afterlife one can only stay transformed for a limited amount of time.
hidden power is likely referring to the maximum potential of the SSJ. No, dormant energy is energy that is readily available meaning you can surpass your current limits if you know how to use it. No SSJ needed to be surpassed because their current base limits were to low to make a difference against the androids at the time. SSJ Vegeta was already stronger than a Semi-Perfect Cell, whom was not at full power but was still stronger than 16 whom was stronger than 17, after training in the ROSAT:
Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P3.1-2
Context: as Vegeta is about to fight second form Cell
Trunks: “Father intends to ‘become’ that right off the bat…! [Become] that…!”
Note: Trunks’ surprise at Vegeta becoming Super Saiyan Grade II so soon may imply that Vegeta would be capable of fighting second form Cell even as a regular Super Saiyan.
Base Saiyans have been getting stronger and stronger. Newer forms are needed because newer villains surpass these new forms. As for Toriyama's memory, the statement made in Toriyama's Best was not made by Toriyama. It was a comment made by the interviewer in a guide. These are the same people who made the guide books and its kind of hard to argue with them.

[Rocketman]

It looks bad if the main character isn't the strongest, so they just ignore that Gohan could snap Goku over his knee effortlessly.

[Son_Gohan]

The term "hidden power" was used in the manga far before Super Saiyan was introduced. In that entry it doesn't state that it draws out the power of Super Saiyan to its limits, but the Saiyan in general.

Newer forms are needed because newer villains surpass these new forms.

Where once the story reaches its end, the necessity to make them stronger is no longer present. Gohan's Ultimate form appeared to mark that culmination.

Unless you're referring to some interview outside of the one in Daizenshuu 4, I don't see how you came to that conclusion.

[Godo]

It's amazing how many times this subject comes up. Maybe Gohan simply forgot how to power up/use/access that power? Remember when he was blasting Buu's shell before Buu hatched? He sort of prayed for his old power (that killed Cell) to come back or to remember how to use it. Same thing here. "Damn! I forgot how to use that power! No time to remember, better do the next best thing! *goes SSJ*

Considering that he didn't forget how to use SSJ2,a form which he only transformed into two times during the Cell Games, after 7 whole years, I doubt that.
And also, when Gohan first transforms into his ultimate form, Old Kaioshin tells him to do that "Super Saiya-jin thing" to be able to reach his new form. So it seems to work the same way, and since we see him transform into a SSJ later, he obviously hasn't forgot how to reach his ultimate form. They have just removed it.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The term "hidden power" was used in the manga far before Super Saiyan was introduced. In that entry it doesn't state that it draws out the power of Super Saiyan to its limits, but the Saiyan in general.

Newer forms are needed because newer villains surpass these new forms.

Where once the story reaches its end, the necessity to make them stronger is no longer present. Gohan's Ultimate form appeared to mark that culmination.

Unless you're referring to some interview outside of the one in Daizenshuu 4, I don't see how you came to that conclusion.

I'm aware but this hidden power is referring to the hidden potential of SSJ. Hmm I don't know maybe its because these guys keep getting stronger. Woah call em crazy but I'll take the blatantly obvious over what some fan thinks should be the case. These characters grow indefinitely and need I remind you these guys kept hitting these "walls" over the course of the series and yet still surpass them even without transforming. Again:
Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P3.1-2
Context: as Vegeta is about to fight second form Cell
Trunks: “Father intends to ‘become’ that right off the bat…! [Become] that…!”
Note: Trunks’ surprise at Vegeta becoming Super Saiyan Grade II so soon may imply that Vegeta would be capable of fighting second form Cell even as a regular Super Saiyan.
Vegeta's base form got tremendously stronger in the ROSAT and these characters continue to train past this. For instance Goku in the Buu saga is stronger than Gohan was at the cell games. Need I remind you that Goku was not only weaker at the Cell Games but Gohan had a rage boost as well. Goku got a lot stronger even though he supposedly had limits.

It looks bad if the main character isn't the strongest, so they just ignore that Gohan could snap Goku over his knee effortlessly.

Or you know Goku just got stronger. the term potential is obviously meaningless when taking into consideration how strong someone is because these guys always break limits. If SSJ3 was Goku's max then his SSJ form would surpass his SSJ3 form, his base form would also make SSJ weaker when he surpassed that. It makes no sense. SSJ3 is the maximum the Saiyan can extend his current limits.

[Son_Gohan]

I'm aware but this hidden power is referring to the hidden potential of SSJ. Hmm I don't know maybe its because these guys keep getting stronger. Woah call em crazy but I'll take the blatantly obvious over what some fan thinks should be the case. These characters grow indefinitely and need I remind you these guys kept hitting these "walls" over the course of the series and yet still surpass them even without transforming. Again:
Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P3.1-2
Context: as Vegeta is about to fight second form Cell
Trunks: “Father intends to ‘become’ that right off the bat…! [Become] that…!”
Note: Trunks’ surprise at Vegeta becoming Super Saiyan Grade II so soon may imply that Vegeta would be capable of fighting second form Cell even as a regular Super Saiyan.
Vegeta's base form got tremendously stronger in the ROSAT and these characters continue to train past this. For instance Goku in the Buu saga is stronger than Gohan was at the cell games. Need I remind you that Goku was not only weaker at the Cell Games but Gohan had a rage boost as well. Goku got a lot stronger even though he supposedly had limits.

It is word for word: "draws the hidden power of a Saiya-jin out to its limits." When it's established to be relevant to their normal state as well, it can't get more blatantly obvious than that, so what's stopping you from following it in this case? Unless you're arguing that they don't have hidden/dormant/latent power in their base state. It's really all the same thing as far as I can tell.

If we're debating on whether a natural limit above all others exists; one they'd never be able to surpass, then bringing up instances earlier in the story where they obviously had to become stronger in order for the story to persist does not reflect the grand scheme of things. What is presented at the end of the story is what matters and whether it's evincive that they could continue growing stronger, which I don't think it does. Super Saiyan 3 and Gohan's Ultimate state was made out as the pinnacle of what they could achieve and it is not contradicted.

[Kaboom]

I don't think we have to take such a vague description as something so literal and concrete. Considering it to just mean "this is a Saiyan's strongest form" is perfectly reasonable. Even preferable, if like me you don't consider there to be any such thing as absolute limits, whether it be for a person overall or in just a specific form.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I'm aware but this hidden power is referring to the hidden potential of SSJ. Hmm I don't know maybe its because these guys keep getting stronger. Woah call em crazy but I'll take the blatantly obvious over what some fan thinks should be the case. These characters grow indefinitely and need I remind you these guys kept hitting these "walls" over the course of the series and yet still surpass them even without transforming. Again:
Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P3.1-2
Context: as Vegeta is about to fight second form Cell
Trunks: “Father intends to ‘become’ that right off the bat…! [Become] that…!”
Note: Trunks’ surprise at Vegeta becoming Super Saiyan Grade II so soon may imply that Vegeta would be capable of fighting second form Cell even as a regular Super Saiyan.
Vegeta's base form got tremendously stronger in the ROSAT and these characters continue to train past this. For instance Goku in the Buu saga is stronger than Gohan was at the cell games. Need I remind you that Goku was not only weaker at the Cell Games but Gohan had a rage boost as well. Goku got a lot stronger even though he supposedly had limits.

It is word for word: "draws the hidden power of a Saiya-jin out to its limits." When it's established to be relevant to their normal state as well, it can't get more blatantly obvious than that, so what's stopping you from following it in this case? Unless you're arguing that they don't have hidden/dormant/latent power in their base state. It's really all the same thing as far as I can tell.

If we're debating on whether a natural limit above all others exists; one they'd never be able to surpass, then bringing up instances earlier in the story where they obviously had to become stronger in order for the story to persist does not reflect the grand scheme of things. What is presented at the end of the story is what matters and whether it's evincive that they could continue growing stronger, which I don't think it does. Super Saiyan 3 and Gohan's Ultimate state was made out as the pinnacle of what they could achieve and it is not contradicted.

SSJ3 just draws on the current limits of the Saiyan. For example lets give Goku a power level of 1,000,000,000 in base. His SSJ3 power level would be 400,000,000,000. Now lets say he trained and his power level grew to 5,000,000,000. His SSJ3 power level would then be 2,000,000,000,000. His limits were expanded and thus his SSJ3 power level became 400x his new limits. All potential is is your current limit. These current limits are surpassed all the time. There is no reason to over complicate things and say that Goku's SSJ3 power level in the Buu saga is his maximum. One you would have to believe that his base form would eventually make all SSJ forms useless or weaker than his base form, which is complete nonsense. Like Kaboom said these characters don't have an end limit. They just grow and grow for as long as they have a body. Actually the end blatantly says they continue to get stronger. Did Goku saying he would train to get stronger in case Buu returned not tip you off or something?

[Son_Gohan]

SSJ3 just draws on the current limits of the Saiyan. For example lets give Goku a power level of 1,000,000,000 in base. His SSJ3 power level would be 400,000,000,000. Now lets say he trained and his power level grew to 5,000,000,000. His SSJ3 power level would then be 2,000,000,000,000. His limits were expanded and thus his SSJ3 power level became 400x his new limits. All potential is is your current limit. These current limits are surpassed all the time. There is no reason to over complicate things and say that Goku's SSJ3 power level in the Buu saga is his maximum. One you would have to believe that his base form would eventually make all SSJ forms useless or weaker than his base form, which is complete nonsense. Like Kaboom said these characters don't have an end limit. They just grow and grow for as long as they have a body. Actually the end blatantly says they continue to get stronger. Did Goku saying he would train to get stronger in case Buu returned not tip you off or something?

I don't see where that is suggested. When Goku achieves SSJ3, I conceive it to signify him already reaching the maximum of his base state. Which I believe is the reason it is given the "The Limit" moniker and a databook entry to further clarify it. Their bodies are always governed by limitations that they cannot control. Vegeta states how a Saiyan's youthful period is longer which allows them to fight at their best; simply having a body doesn't mean their power is not bound to it. SSJ3 already represents there being a limit to how much power their body can hold due to the drawbacks it causes to the user. No, because Goku doesn't say that.

[JP6GAMER]

I personally think Goku "can" be stronger than Mystic Gohan.
Does Goku have hidden powers?

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

I don't see why not. Even if he doesn't, I'm sure the Elder Kai re-arranging his ki like Gohan would have an amazing effect.

[JP6GAMER]

Imagine a Ultimate Goku...wow.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Ultimate Gohan should be stronger than Ultimate Goku, since Gohan has more dormant power than Goku.