The Chōzenshū databook thread: speculation, discussion, etc.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Of course, it does irk me that Billy and Willy are included, since they fall into the exact same camp as Coola. That inconsistency does annoy me, but hey, they want to promote their new movie, I guess...

I figure it's that, and the fact that Toriyama is directly involved with this movie, that makes them get the pass whereas other movie-only characters, such as Cooler, don't.

[Herms]

Oh, and the Vegeta pages that look exactly the same as the original ones from Daizenshuu 2 actually say "reprint" at the bottom.

Come to think of it, I remember there being a typo in Daizenshuu 2's Growing Up entry on Vegeta where they give the wrong volume number for when he first becomes a Super Saiyan, or some such thing. I wonder if they changed that or just reprinted it as-is? The image isn't really clear enough for me to tell.

[MagicBox]

I figure it's that, and the fact that Toriyama is directly involved with this movie, that makes them get the pass whereas other movie-only characters, such as Cooler, don't.

That's true, too. Of course, things get even more confusing when you take into account that Toriyama designed Coola, so he could possibly be included by that logic, but...

Bah, even though I own the Daizenshuu, I'm starting to really want these books. Not that I could even read them without a Kanzenshuu translation, but still!

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

Wow Herms, you're a machine! Thanks for all of the info.

Above and to the right there's also the by now standard diagram of the structure of the DB cosmos.

Is it just me, or does the upside down pyramid-thing with the tree on top that we see in the trailer bare something of a resemblance to that thing. It looks like it's divided up in a similar fashion

[Fizzer]

When CD Japan says "out of production", does it mean that literally, or does it simply mean "temporarily out of stock"? Because it seems a bit soon for it to be out of productions.

Does anyone know if there will be things that were in the Daizenshuu that are omitted from these, or if TV Animation Guide Part 3 will be there? What about information from things like the Super Exciting Guides?

[Fox666]

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[TheDevilsCorpse]

Not sure I like the Hakaishin being another counterpart to the Kaioshin. I think it was better back when it seemed like Birusu held the unique God of Destruction position, opposite another specific creation deity. :/

[SaiyaJedi]

When CD Japan says "out of production", does it mean that literally, or does it simply mean "temporarily out of stock"? Because it seems a bit soon for it to be out of productions.

Does anyone know if there will be things that were in the Daizenshuu that are omitted from these, or if TV Animation Guide Part 3 will be there? What about information from things like the Super Exciting Guides?

We'll let you know once we get our hands on them ourselves. The first book doesn't officially come out until Tuesday, so all we have to go on are the few blurry images from that one blogger who managed to snag it early.

[Wobbuffet]

Interestingly enough, they list Kreeza and Chilled but don't list Tarble.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So, Shueisha treats Neko Majin, Episode of Bardock, and Battle of Gods as manga canon? Cool.
But why isn't Tarble there? We do have a manga version of the JSAT Special after all, so hope that they will mention Tarble, or Abo & Kado/Aka.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I have heard some theories that maybe this movie retcons the Jump special, and both do seem to take place two years after the defeat of Buu (we did have that confirmed for this movie, right?), so...maybe it really is making that special not applicable anymore?

[Herms]

and both do seem to take place two years after the defeat of Buu (we did have that confirmed for this movie, right?)

Not quite; all that's officially been said is that it's "several" years later than the Boo arc. What we now know is that Bilus went to sleep 39 years before when the movie is set, and that at the time the Oracle Fish predicted a strong enemy would appear before him in 39 years. 39 years seems so specific that it seems like it must mean something, and since Goku is 37 during the Boo arc (according to the official timeline), me and others have speculated that Bilus went to sleep around the time of Goku's birth, meaning the movie is about 2 years after the Boo arc. But this might not be so. The 39 years might have no connection to Goku, or maybe it does but they're not going exactly by the official timeline to calculate Goku's age, putting the movie more than 2 years after the Boo arc.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Ohh, okay. That's right, it was just the 39 years thing and it seems to really fit with what else we have so far. Thanks for the reminder, I was already getting it into my head that it was official. ^_^;

[Fox666]

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[hleV]

... Dunno what to think. Chilled? Kreeza (with question mark)? Why are they included but not Coola? 'Cuz they're canon and Coola's not? Or 'cuz their stories don't contradict the main story? Or 'cuz they were made into manga as well?.. Is this guide even manga-based? If one goes with EOB, then one should also go with Bardocks' special, and I don't think it has a manga version...
I know the pictures seen in that Chozenshu page are drawn by Toriyama, but still?

Even with such "implications", I don't know if it's right to accept things that have stuff which indeed contradicts the implications in the original story. And aren't really made by AT, of course. Wouldn't it be the same as accepting some fanfiction as DB-canon? There's this magical word "official", but it doesn't translate to "canon" or "more canon than something non-official".
If we took Star Wars, even though it has tons of stuff not made by George Lucas, things there either get officially accepted as canon or not. In DB? No such thing as "canon". So what does this inclusion of Chilled and Kreeza but exclusion of Coola even mean?
BOG ain't totally made by AT neither. Either it manages to explain shit well or it has no chance.

I hate this "head canon" thing and want to make as much sense as possible for what's logically supposed to be true to AT's original DB work, but this is so hard...
... I need more beer.

[JulieYBM]

They might be included because Shueisha owns them directly. Or they just forgot about Coola.

[Fox666]

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[MagicBox]

I think the whole "Coola" thing might be getting blown out of proportion a tad. It's important to not start throwing around words like "canon" and stuff like that. Keep in mind that this is a guidebook (or, more specifically, a tiny character relation chart from said guidebook). A guidebook is not going to pick and choose what should be in any "official continuity." That's not what it's meant to do. A guidebook exists merely to organize and present information. And from what we can tell from these early images, the information in this "Story & World" guide is focused on manga material, be it the main story or otherwise.

That seems like a perfect explanation to include Chilled and Kreeza. Stuff like Coola, the Burdock TV Special, and the JSAT Special are probably being saved for the two Animation guides, because that's where they're relevant. That's probably why Table and his wife don't seem to be included in this first book; they debuted in an animated production***. And who's to say that the "Episode of Burdock" and "Neko Majin" manga stories are being regarded as "equal" or "canon" to the main story just because they're mentioned? Again, this thing is a guidebook, which means it exists to provide information. Those things will probably be covered in a "Side-Stories" section or something. Sure, you could save the side stories and stuff like that for the upcoming "Encyclopedia" volume, but why not cover them in both?

***Of course, Billy and Willy are debuting in an animated production as well, so it's an inconsistency that they're featured in this book while Table (who debuted in another animated production with Toriyama involvement) might not be. But as I said before, they want to promote their new movie, so that seems to get you a free pass into any guidebook.

[TripleRach]

They might be included because Shueisha owns them directly.

That seems like the most probable explanation to me. Episode of Bardock and the JSAT special seem to be owned specifically by Shueisha, based on their (annoying) magazine-based distribution methods. And obviously Neko Majin was only a manga, published by Shueisha.

I'd assume that using material from movies or anime-only scenes probably requires getting rights from (and maybe sharing royalties with?) Toei. It might also be why the original Daizenshuu books mostly split anime and movie data into separate books, save for #7.

As for Battle of Gods, either Shueisha doesn't need extra licensing from Toei in this case, or they figured their investment would easily repay itself (all us fanboys and fangirls wanting new movie data).

This is all just personal speculation though, because I certainly don't know the specifics of the contracts between Shueisha and Toei.

[Herms]

Pekindaq's got his copy, and says it's 95% the same as Daizenshuu 2 and 4. New additions include the Kanzenban illustrations, Neko Majin, and...Abale-chan, the brief Dr. Slump follow-up.

If we take that 95% figure literally, since it's a 352 page book that should mean roughly 17-18 pages of new stuff. That's actually more than I was expecting.