The Chōzenshū databook thread: speculation, discussion, etc.

[soulnova]

Hahaha xD


I still want to know about Kakarot's and Vegeta's mother.

[hleV]

Probably explains why the Kaioshin didn't take out Freeza. Why give Birisu more work....

Why would Kaioshin want to take him out in the first place?

Gee, I dunno, enslaving half the galaxy, Mass genocide?

Where is it stated that Kaioshin are supposed to deal with such folks? I highly doubt that Toriyama had Birusu in mind at the time he drew the manga, so Kaioshin didn't kill Freeza for some other reason. Or, to put it better, didn't have a reason at all.

[goku the krump dancer]

Holy shit!! What if Bils entrusted Bibidi to handle some of his business while he slept? Bibidi knowing that he isn't physically powerful creates Boo and the rest is history until Bils realizes that Boo has been inactive for so long and later entrusts Freeza with the same task.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The first part seems like a bit of a stretch, as Bibidi's creation of Buu was said to be an accident. But it does appear that this is most likely his connection to Freeza.

[hleV]

Freeza only blew up Vegeta & Namek.

[Kaboom]

Freeza only blew up Vegeta & Namek.

That we know of, at least.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Freeza only blew up Namek.

Birusu was asleep for 39 years, and we know for certain that Freeza destroyed Vegeta and Namek in the timeframe. Still completely possible that he was following the Hakaishin's orders and destroyed others we don't know about.

[hleV]

I don't know, Freeza seemed to be much more into selling planets, not destroying them. But that's just going by what's in the original series. Perhaps the movie writer(s) decided to explain certain things differently - it's not like there's a contradiction.

[Ryuman]

Maybe Freeza got carried away with his position. He is a bit of a dick.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I was reading over the tidbits on the site, and the part about the Kaioshin having the power of 'creation' caught my eye. So does this mean there actually isn't a 'God of Creation' per say that is a counterpart to Bils? The regular gods we already knew were his counterpart all along?

[soulnova]

Feeling entitled to decide what worlds were worth destroying must have been very profitable.

[Chuquita]

I was reading over the tidbits on the site, and the part about the Kaioshin having the power of 'creation' caught my eye. So does this mean there actually isn't a 'God of Creation' per say that is a counterpart to Bils? The regular gods we already knew were his counterpart all along?

If this is so that eliminates one more possibility for that 8th mystery tie-in toy, bringing my guesses down to:
-Shokofish
Or
-new form for: Birusu, Uisu, or Goku.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I was reading over the tidbits on the site, and the part about the Kaioshin having the power of 'creation' caught my eye. So does this mean there actually isn't a 'God of Creation' per say that is a counterpart to Bils? The regular gods we already knew were his counterpart all along?

You'd have to ask one of our Japanese speaking members for clarification, but that does seem to be the case based on the statements about the Kaioshin being able to at least start the creation process and that Birusu is the Hakaishin that watches over Earth (implying multiple gods at that position?)...

If that's right, I liked it better when Birusu seemed like the only Hakaishin and was the counterpart to a single creation deity...

[Gyt Kaliba]

Yeah, I'm definitely hoping for some further clarification here, just to be sure. I kinda liked the idea better too when we thought we had a separate 'God of Creation' and a 'God of Destruction', but I could also work with Bils just being the God of Destruction that all on his own is the opposite of the Kaioshin. I really don't think I like the idea of him being just one of many in that position either.

Also, if he's a 'Hakaishin', does this completely dispel the possibility of him being a 'Makaioshin'?

[VegettoEX]

I'm still holding out hope for "Uisu" being a Makaioshin under-cover as Birusu's attendant with ulterior motives of his own. Why bring up all the golden fruit / Shin-jin / etc. stuff all over again if they're not going to do anything with it?! Argh!!

[Gyt Kaliba]

That could work, I'd be happy with something like that. Uisu has to be up to something anyway, that one shot of him in the trailer is way too creepy not to suggest otherwise.

Geez though, Kaio & Kaioshin, Maikaioshi, Hakaishin - the godly hierarchy of Dragon Ball sure has gotten larger since the original series ended. Not that I'm complaining really though.

[Fizzer]

So which parts of the two Daizenshuu's weren't included, if this is a "condensed" release? It seems to have far fewer pages than the two older books added together.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I really would have liked the idea of the various Kaio(shin) "serving" a creation deity to advance life and all that, while having the Makaio(shin) "serving" under the Hakaishin and attempting to cause destruction after being banished to Makai. Uisu could be Makaio(shin) or just a evil Shinjin (lol evil Kibito) that wants Birusu out of the way so that he can take his job or causing chaos by disrupting the balance of the universe.

Geez though, Kaio & Kaioshin, Maikaioshi, Hakaishin - the godly hierarchy of Dragon Ball sure has gotten larger since the original series ended. Not that I'm complaining really though.

While not everyone will choose to accept it, for what it's worth, Dragon Ball Online added a "Kaiojikan" (World King of Time) too.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Wow, cool stuff there! It's strange that they didn't cover the JSAT Special, but I just noticed that Gregory was in it in both anime & manga versions. So, bye-bye from my manga canon...

Now, questions time!

1) Are the Makaio & Makaioshin mentioned? Do the terms even appear?
2) Are Dr. Slump, Neko Majin, Episode of Bardock, Battle of Gods, and the Kanzenban ending presented as if they actually happened in the same world that the manga takes place?
3) Is the part about Boo destroying planets in the same section that talks about Birusu having others (hinting Freeza) to do his job?

That's it for now.

[Herms]

Is there any information omitted from the Daizenshuu?

As near as I can tell, all that's been excluded from Daizenshuu 2 and 4 are (as anticipated) the the reprints of the first/last/Dr. Slump crossover chapters, and the color page gallery. These parts were presumably felt to be extraneous what with the Kanzenban release and the new full color release. The reprinted pages are completely the same, except that they're marked "reprint" at the bottom. Even typos are reprinted unchanged, like listing Vegeta first appearing as a Super Saiyan in volume 32, rather than 29.

The new bits are pretty much all at the front, and mostly devoted to detailing Neko Majin, Episode of Bardock, and Abale-chan, plus the new Toriyama Q&A. Before that though is an overview of the Kanzenban release, with what chapters are I each volume, plus detailing Goku's age each step of the way.

The "New World" section starts with two pages offering info on Bilus, followed by 6 pages on Neko Majin, and a page each for Episode of Bardock and Abale-chan. After the new stuff at the front, there's a page essentially saying "here begins our reprint of Daizenshuu 2", followed by the Daizenshuu 2 pages, then they mark where Daizenshuu 4 begins. The only bit of mixing and matching is that both the Daizenshuu 2 and 4 interviews are stuck together and placed at the end of the book (it's still clear which is which). The setup sort of reminds me of the VizBigs.

Everything looks great, and I'd say that anyone who doesn't own Daizenshuu 2 and 4 can just pick this up instead. For people who already own Daizenshuu 2 and 4 though, there's probably not enough new stuff here to be really exciting, unless you really like Neko Majin, Episode of Bardock, and/or Abale.