Dabura >=< Perfect Cell(Not Super Perfect)?

[Gokuden]

I remember buying video games, and action figures which stated that mecha freeza was stronger due to the parts he had placed on him by the best scientists in the galaxy.
Why would you come to Earth weaker than your former self which got obliterated by a Super Saiyan, only to be whipped again by that same Saiyan?
The only way I could see this working if Mecha Freeza were weaker is if he came to Earth on a suicide mission planning to kill Goku's friends and family, and then brace himself for his inevitable demise. But no, he had plans to conquer the planet, and brought his men.
Why would he bring his father just to get him killed as well?

True, Mecha-Freeza at full power probably would be stronger than his prior all-organic self at full power, but I think the point others have made is we're not sure if Freeza powered up or not before Trunks killed him off.

[Dabra] didn't kill anyone either.

Well, I guess Kibito didn't stay dead...

Maybe Mecha Freeza had some artificial blood that could juice his attacks, or maybe Trunks killed him before the full power.

Funny you should mention that, as I quoted you saying something regarding Kibito in the other thread. To me, Kibito's death wasn't what I was expecting.I remember back in the day there used to be all this litany about being of the demon clan and having your victim's souls when you kill them. Dabura is the go-to demon, he is actually a demon, Piccolo is not, yet when he murdered Kibito, nothing special happened. I was expecting him to be erased.

[Kaboom]

Perhaps there's a key difference between being a demon by race and being a demon by one's spiritual nature. Kind of like how in Star Wars, the "Sith" were originally a distinct non-human race, but the name became shared by the Dark Jedi they inspired. In the same way, Piccolo would have been a "demon" by virtue of his evil, half-soulless nature, even though he was biologically a Namekian. Dabra, oppositely, might be a demon by race, but not necessarily "pure evil" and having a demonic soul.

Alternatively, just a thought... maybe the godly Shinjin are special and somehow immune from that sort of thing. Only mortal souls are vulnerable to the extra downsides of being killed by a demon, or something.

[Fox666]

deleted

[Victorious]

Considering he only fought about evenly with SSJ Teen Gohan, I don't see anything that puts him even close Perfect Cell's maximum output.

Perfect Cell [zenkai] >>> Perfect Cell [full power] >>> MSSJ Kid Gohan >> SSJ Teen Gohan ~ Dabura.

[Darkprince410]

Considering he only fought about evenly with SSJ Teen Gohan, I don't see anything that puts him even close Perfect Cell's maximum output.

Perfect Cell [zenkai] >>> Perfect Cell [full power] >>> MSSJ Kid Gohan >> SSJ Teen Gohan ~ Dabura.

Dabura wasn't really trying as hard as Gohan though if you notice. Gohan, towards the end of their fight, was out of breath in comparison to Dabura. After Gohan broke Dabura's sword, there's a distance shot, and we see Gohan is panting, whereas Dabura is pretty calm.

[Fox666]

deleted

[Bussani]

To me, Kibito's death wasn't what I was expecting.I remember back in the day there used to be all this litany about being of the demon clan and having your victim's souls when you kill them. Dabura is the go-to demon, he is actually a demon, Piccolo is not, yet when he murdered Kibito, nothing special happened. I was expecting him to be erased.

Kami-sama explains that the souls of those murdered by a demon is sent to another dimensions. So that may have happened to Kibito as well.

I think it was actually Karin who explained that, and rather than saying they were sent to another place, he only said that they couldn't ascend to the afterlife. They're stuck in a limbo state, rather than a place called limbo, if that makes any sense. But yeah, Kibito could well have been left in that state. We can't be sure since, even though Dabra is evil and from the demon realm, and maybe even a demon for sure, we don't know if he's one of those "demon clansman" folk that this applies to.

I kind of think he'd count, though.

[Victorious]

Considering he only fought about evenly with SSJ Teen Gohan, I don't see anything that puts him even close Perfect Cell's maximum output.

Perfect Cell [zenkai] >>> Perfect Cell [full power] >>> MSSJ Kid Gohan >> SSJ Teen Gohan ~ Dabura.

Dabura wasn't really trying as hard as Gohan though if you notice. Gohan, towards the end of their fight, was out of breath in comparison to Dabura. After Gohan broke Dabura's sword, there's a distance shot, and we see Gohan is panting, whereas Dabura is pretty calm.

Still that just means Dabura might have an edge on Gohan like suppressed Cell had on MSSJ Goku, or 1st form Freeza had on post Recoome zenkai/nap Vegeta. Those are actually pretty close gaps. Dabura also pulled out a saber so I very much doubt he's that much ahead of Gohan. If he's so much stronger he would have ended Gohan and given the energy to Buu for his revival.

Full Power Perfect Cell would probably leave MSSJ Kid Gohan a broken heap in one shot. And MSSJ Kid Gohan should have no problem tooling SSJ Teen Gohan.

[hleV]

Maybe the souls can go to the afterlife once that demon is killed. Like Dabra's spit effect only applies whilst he's alife.

[MajinVegeta]

Considering he only fought about evenly with SSJ Teen Gohan, I don't see anything that puts him even close Perfect Cell's maximum output.

Perfect Cell [zenkai] >>> Perfect Cell [full power] >>> MSSJ Kid Gohan >> SSJ Teen Gohan ~ Dabura.

I don't think SSJ Teen Gohan ~ Dabura, all of Vegeta's and Goku's quotes tell me Dabura > Gohan or >=

[Fox666]

deleted

[Bussani]

Maybe the souls can go to the afterlife once that demon is killed. Like Dabra's spit effect only applies whilst he's alife.

If that were the case, Karin wouldn't have had to mention the limbo-effect of being killed by a demon. Piccolo Daimao was already dead when he brought it up, but he spoke as though it was still the case for Kame-sennin and the others' souls.

I don't think SSJ Teen Gohan ~ Dabura, all of Vegeta's and Goku's quotes tell me Dabura > Gohan or >=

What about when Goku said that Gohan wasn't completely losing and that they should let him do it? To me, that said that it was just Vegeta being impatient (and wanting to be "controlled" by Babidi) more than that Dabura was a lot stronger than Gohan.

At some point Cell said he would go all out, at least in speed, and Gohan could still keep up with him. So I don't think there was much of a difference beetween them.

Hmm, I wonder if we should take what Cell said there so literally. Was he really as fast after saying that as he was after revealing his true power against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan?

I'm not disagreeing with you or anything--you've just made me start wondering myself.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I don't think Super Saiyan Gohan could do anything to Full-Power Cell. Goku even seemed a bit stunned at Cell's true power after he powered-up, and this was after seeing Super Saiyan 2 Gohan in action for a bit. Now if it's the Cell that Goku fought, then yeah, Gohan's in his league. I think (Like Cell mentioning Trunks being stronger than him by a wide margin) Cell was just referring to his speed at that particular point rather than it being what he's fully capable of.

[MajinVegeta]

What about when Goku said that Gohan wasn't completely losing and that they should let him do it? To me, that said that it was just Vegeta being impatient (and wanting to be "controlled" by Babidi) more than that Dabura was a lot stronger than Gohan.

Yes that makes sense. I think they are equal in power, but in skill (IMO) Dabura > Gohan

[Nex Carnifex]

The last time we saw Cell, he was Super Perfect Cell. Goku said that he was about as strong as Cell, and then that he was greater than they thought (because of his magic), so Dabra is stronger than Super Perfect Cell.

Goku didn't fight SPC so I don't think he could get the full idea of his power. And seeing as Gohan got weaker since he fought Cell, but still managed against Dabura in just SS, I think Goku was referring to the Cell he saw up close.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I can't believe I never thought of this but it is possible that Dabura was merely toying with Gohan for some entertainment. Dabura even mentions later than Gohan is no match for him when they prepared to fight a second time. Now before you say well it looked like Dabura was trying, think about. What if Dabura was merely holding back to piss Vegeta off and see whether or not he was a worthy candidate for possession?

[DBZAOTA482]

I can't believe I never thought of this but it is possible that Dabura was merely toying with Gohan for some entertainment. Dabura even mentions later than Gohan is no match for him when they prepared to fight a second time. Now before you say well it looked like Dabura was trying, think about. What if Dabura was merely holding back to piss Vegeta off and see whether or not he was a worthy candidate for possession?

I don't think so, if he knew that may or may not piss Vegeta off then there'd be no need.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I can't believe I never thought of this but it is possible that Dabura was merely toying with Gohan for some entertainment. Dabura even mentions later than Gohan is no match for him when they prepared to fight a second time. Now before you say well it looked like Dabura was trying, think about. What if Dabura was merely holding back to piss Vegeta off and see whether or not he was a worthy candidate for possession?

I don't think so, if he knew that may or may not piss Vegeta off then there'd be no need.

Well he can clearly see Vegeta is impatient. I see no reason not to try it. Dabura being on par with Perfect Cell, or stronger according to Goku's little statement, = to a SSJ Gohan that has less power than his Cell Games counterpart makes little sense. Therefore I would imagine Dabura is holding back.

[DBZAOTA482]

I can't believe I never thought of this but it is possible that Dabura was merely toying with Gohan for some entertainment. Dabura even mentions later than Gohan is no match for him when they prepared to fight a second time. Now before you say well it looked like Dabura was trying, think about. What if Dabura was merely holding back to piss Vegeta off and see whether or not he was a worthy candidate for possession?

I don't think so, if he knew that may or may not piss Vegeta off then there'd be no need.

Well he can clearly see Vegeta is impatient. I see no reason not to try it. Dabura being on par with Perfect Cell, or stronger according to Goku's little statement, = to a SSJ Gohan that has less power than his Cell Games counterpart makes little sense. Therefore I would imagine Dabura is holding back.

Then why didn't Dabra just possess Vegeta if he knows he's impure from the get-go?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I can't believe I never thought of this but it is possible that Dabura was merely toying with Gohan for some entertainment.

There is no reason for this. The point of the whole fight was to damage Gohan, so that they can gather energy for Boo.