Krillin(Buu Saga) vs Freeza

[Godo]

It's just an opinion backed by the idea that Saiyans are somehow only strong because of Zenkai's and SSJ forms.

But that's pretty much indicated in the series.
When Goku trains in his spaceship on his way to Namek, it's pretty directly stated that ha huge part of his training was because of near death power ups, and high gravity training. Even Goku mentions to Vegeta that he too knows of the near death power up after Vegeta recovers from fighting Recoome. And also, the one way Goku and Vegeta become stronger during the Freeza arc is through near death power ups.
Later, Goku spends his time training with the Yadratians, and Vegeta later trains in 300 times gravity, something we do see him do in the Buu Arc as well. To add, Goku trained in the afterlife at that same time.
We should also include the ROSAT.

The only opportunity the humans have had for any special training is Kaio's planet, and for Kuririn the unlocking of his powers.

And remember when Kaio's said that training with him would increase your strength more than it could do in a thousand years at Earth. So jut simply training at Earth isn't beneficial at all. You need to train in harsh conditions to become better, such as increased gravity or more weights or as in the ROSAT, harsh weather and psychological conditions.

Another very important factor is that he only way for the Saiya-jins to be able to reach Freeza's level was by the 50 times multiplier of the SSJ transformation, and to become considerably stronger they had to reach new forms.

If the humans had gravity training, the ROSAT and the SSJ, they could keep up with the Saiya-jins, but they didn't.

But hey, you can believe all you want, it's fine for me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Marco Polo]

Krillin should have trained at the bottom of the oceans, where the pressure is far stronger than on the ground surface. You know, since Krillin doesn't need to breath (he has no nose)...

[DanTheBib]

Krillin should have trained at the bottom of the oceans, where the pressure is far stronger than on the ground surface. You know, since Krillin doesn't need to breath (he has no nose)...

He does have lungs and a mouth though.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It's just an opinion backed by the idea that Saiyans are somehow only strong because of Zenkai's and SSJ forms.

But that's pretty much indicated in the series.
When Goku trains in his spaceship on his way to Namek, it's pretty directly stated that ha huge part of his training was because of near death power ups, and high gravity training. Even Goku mentions to Vegeta that he too knows of the near death power up after Vegeta recovers from fighting Recoome. And also, the one way Goku and Vegeta become stronger during the Freeza arc is through near death power ups.
Later, Goku spends his time training with the Yadratians, and Vegeta later trains in 300 times gravity, something we do see him do in the Buu Arc as well. To add, Goku trained in the afterlife at that same time.
We should also include the ROSAT.

The only opportunity the humans have had for any special training is Kaio's planet, and for Kuririn the unlocking of his powers.

And remember when Kaio's said that training with him would increase your strength more than it could do in a thousand years at Earth. So jut simply training at Earth isn't beneficial at all. You need to train in harsh conditions to become better, such as increased gravity or more weights or as in the ROSAT, harsh weather and psychological conditions.

Another very important factor is that he only way for the Saiya-jins to be able to reach Freeza's level was by the 50 times multiplier of the SSJ transformation, and to become considerably stronger they had to reach new forms.

If the humans had gravity training, the ROSAT and the SSJ, they could keep up with the Saiya-jins, but they didn't.

But hey, you can believe all you want, it's fine for me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

And you are entitled to yours but I have something of interest:
Chapter: Trunks: the Story, P2.1
Context: regular Gohan was sparring with Super Saiyan Trunks. With his one arm…
Future Gohan: “You’ve improved a lot, Trunks. You might even leave me in the dust in a few months.”
Notice how base Gohan is keeping up with SSJ trunks. Now I can assure that base Gohan isn't any higher than 10 million in base. This puts SSJ Trunks at this point in time between 1 and 10 Million. This puts his base level at 20,000-200,000. Trunks eventually gets to a level that surpasses 3 Million with no special training in just 3 years time. I can also assure you that training alone wouldn't get you much of a Zenkai nor would it be very significant since Zenkais past Freeza became rather insignificant. So Trunks goes from 200,000(Max) to 3,000,000+ within 3 years of basic training? Thats a rather impressive jump with no special circumstances and really I see no reason for character like Krillin to be incapable of achieving levels within the millions because of this.

[Rocketman]

Trunks is Saiyan.

And no, you can't assure me that Trunks isn't getting zenkais in the apocalyptic future.

Your assuming that "zenkais are nothing after Freeza" is also wrong. Even besides Cell, they become useless because the characters get too strong. Trunks isn't that strong yet, so he still gets noticeable zenkais.

Trunks is Saiyan.

And? I will once again state, what makes his basic training methods any better than Krillins? If both are using standard training methods why should Trunks be so much stronger by the end of it?

Because he's Saiyan, and Saiyans are better than humans.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Trunks is Saiyan.

And? I will once again state, what makes his basic training methods any better than Krillins? If both are using standard training methods why should Trunks be so much stronger by the end of it?

[sonikku956]

Trunks is half-Saiyan.

[Godo]

Trunks is half-Saiyan.

This.
We see Gohan, who trains not considerably harder than the rest gain huge leaps in power.
And also, the half Saiya-jins are already born with formidable power, and gain power pretty easily. Even compared to Goku and Vegeta. Even Vegeta mentions that the whole thing is unfair.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Trunks is half-Saiyan.

This.
We see Gohan, who trains not considerably harder than the rest gain huge leaps in power.
And also, the half Saiya-jins are already born with formidable power, and gain power pretty easily. Even compared to Goku and Vegeta. Even Vegeta mentions that the whole thing is unfair.

Yes but where does that unnatural growth rate come from? It's obviously not the Saiyans and its mentioned that because they are part human they gain power quickly. This could point to humans getting strong quickly as well.

[CaBrPi]

Trunks is half-Saiyan.

This.
We see Gohan, who trains not considerably harder than the rest gain huge leaps in power.
And also, the half Saiya-jins are already born with formidable power, and gain power pretty easily. Even compared to Goku and Vegeta. Even Vegeta mentions that the whole thing is unfair.

Yes but where does that unnatural growth rate come from? It's obviously not the Saiyans and its mentioned that because they are part human they gain power quickly. This could point to humans getting strong quickly as well.

It's the combination of human and Saiyan, not the actual human part. If it was the human part, why did none of the humans have a similar hidden power to Gohan's? Why wasn't Marron born with a battle power higher than Raditz's?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gohan has massive hidden power reserves, he does not grow at a rate faster than the others based on what Iv'e seen. It would seem being a Human-Saiyan hybrid doesn't increase growth rate, all it does is give a large amount of hidden power reserves. If Gohan has grown faster, Ihaven't noticed it. All Gohan's power jumps have come from hidden power draws or sparring sessions. Do we even know Maron's power level? We have never seen her fight so we can't judge. I think them being born with high power levels is a Saiyan thing though.

[Rocketman]

Gohan went from 1 to ~1000 in a year, and then from a couple hundred thousand to Perfect Cell's match in another year.

[CaBrPi]

And, like, the hidden power thing has always been chalked up to him being a hybrid, has it not?

Isn't that in the guidebooks? All hybrids are known to have HUGE power. With Gohan, it's mostly hidden and brought out through training, and with the other two, it was the opposite since their fathers were Super Saiyans. Right? (Legit question)

[Godo]

Gohan has massive hidden power reserves, he does not grow at a rate faster than the others based on what Iv'e seen. It would seem being a Human-Saiyan hybrid doesn't increase growth rate, all it does is give a large amount of hidden power reserves. If Gohan has grown faster, Ihaven't noticed it. All Gohan's power jumps have come from hidden power draws or sparring sessions. Do we even know Maron's power level? We have never seen her fight so we can't judge. I think them being born with high power levels is a Saiyan thing though.

As Rocketman has said, the power increase of hybrids is pretty sick, it's implied all the time.
They are born with high power levels because they are hybrids. Not because of the Saiya-Jin part. I mean, Goku was born as a whooping 2...

[Dark Red Z]

No earthling bar Ub has any hope against Freezer. Ever.
That because they don't have access or even endurance to the training methods the Saiyans had.

[Nineteen]

I do wonder what would happen if you took Tenshinhan and, say, gave him Goku's 100x gravity chamber and ten years to train. Would he be a match for any of Frieza's forms?

I like to think it's within their power to become as strong as you please. The humans just don't have a way to cheap themselves there.

[Marco Polo]

I do wonder what would happen if you took Tenshinhan and, say, gave him Goku's 100x gravity chamber and ten years to train. Would he be a match for any of Freeza's forms?

I like to think it's within their power to become as strong as you please. The humans just don't have a way to cheap themselves there.

They definitely can become as strong as they please. Uub IS a human after all, with a human mother and a human father. If his body couldn't contain Buu's power he would have exploded during the 28th World Martial Arts Tournament or something.

The only problem humans have is that they don't gain power fast enough compared to other species. Give Tenshinhan a million years to train in the Afterlife and I'm sure he could defeat Freeza.

[Kaboom]

I know he's "non-canon," but I like to cite Olibu as an example of human power growth. The guy's a normal Earthling human, who's managed to reach insane, greater-than-Freeza levels of power... after training in the afterlife for thousands of years, if not longer.

[Rocketman]

Olibu is also the DB world's version of Herakles. If he's even half of what our stories say Herakles was, he could easily overpower even Buu-era characters in pure strength.

[Fizzer]

Kuririn got his last huge power boost on Namek. After that all he did was fire kamehamehas off into the ocean and stuff, and probably got mildly stronger, but not that much compared to his boost from the Grand Elder. After that boost he was unable to beat Reacoome, whilst fighting alongside Gohan and Vegeta who were both more powerful than him. Kuririn could never beat Ginyu at any point in his life, never mind Freeza. Maybe Tenshinhan could beat Ginyu in the Cell and Buu arcs, after his year on Kaio's planet, but he'd probably have to use his kikoho and I still don't think he'd stand a chance against Freeza. To me, it's just a level that humans aren't able to reach.