Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
GoKu.SaMa wrote:Freeza was using 50% of his full power .
Actually he was using 70%, or more I can't quite remember, of his power so 84,000,000, still not double.
GoKu.SaMa wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Hmm I think I got a good explanation for this form. The legend states that SSJ is a state which nobody can beat, the SSJ is an unrivaled warrior. Here is my thought process on this whole form. I think this form grants the user as much power and ability as he needs to win the fight.
So you think the power of this form is unlimited ?
The term infinite would be more appropriate since Goku would only be unlimited if he were fighting an Omnipotent foe and even then it would likely create a paradox because the Omnipotent couldn't do something, this would defy being able to do anything.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
GoKu.SaMa wrote:When Freeza was using 50% of his full power he damaged Goku (while he was using the SSJ) even more than Uub with the Kiai , and Goku was more than twice stronger than him .
The Kiai merely pushed him back it did not hurt him. Umm I don't think 150,000,000 is double 120,000,000...
Freeza was using 50% of his full power .[/quote]
Actually he was using 70%, or more I can't quire remember, of his power so 84,000,000, still not double.[/quote]
I don't think we should assume or even speculate too much until we actually get to see the film and witness this "Super Sayain God" thing for ourselves. For all we know, the form could temporarily grant Goku all-out omnipotence or something.
Kaboom wrote:I don't think we should assume or even speculate too much until we actually get to see the film and witness this "Super Sayain God" thing for ourselves. For all we know, the form could temporarily grant Goku all-out omnipotence or something.
I still like to get opinions on this stuff. I really wish they'd release a screenshot of it though. I really want to see what it looks like.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
SSJ God form is simply stronger than Goku's SSJ3 and possibly up to infinity. Because if someone is going to reach that level, it is only Goku that will be allowed to do so.
GoKu.SaMa wrote:At the end of the series Goku became stronger than Vegetto , he was fighting uub equally with out even using the SSJ !
I guess you are talking about the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai. Oob wasn't using all of his power all the time. He most likely went full power when he fired the Kiai(and finished the battle). Even Daizenshuu 7 supports that Oob raised his power with the Kiai:
Daizenshuu 7 wrote:A technique where he emits ki from his entire body while letting out a great yell. While increasing his own ki, he causes an intense shockwave that attacks his opponent. A technique that he used at the 28th Tenkaichi Budoukai, angry at Goku's bad-mouthing.
So, Oob got angry, got powerful enough to fight with base Goku, and raised his power to the max (reaching power equal with Pure Boo). Goku didn't fight after that.
Uub raised his power here
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Goku kept fighting him even after he raised his power.
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Uub used the Kiai here
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The Kiai doesn't raise the power .
U can't assume that Uub is stronger than Goku because he damaged him with that attack , Freeza did the same thing and Goku was more than twice stronger than him .
Uub wasn't anywhere near full power at any point in that though. While he was getting stronger as the fight progressed (because he was starting to tap into Pure Buu's potential), he was still well short of Pure Buu's strength. We know this because at the end, Goku points out that training Uub and unlocking his full potential for a rematch (thus making Uub as strong as Pure Buu) is one of his motives for taking Uub as a student.
Even in the beginning of GT, we see that Uub still hasn't reached that full potential yet, because while Goku says that he has nothing more to teach Uub, he still sends Uub off after to go train on his own, knowing that Uub still had room to grow before he reached that potential.
The kiai doesn't really indicate anything because Uub wasn't anywhere close to the full strength of Pure Buu when he released it. So using that as a basis for Goku's strength at the end of Z also doesn't really work.
Anyways I say he will be as strong as Bils or stronger since the soundtrack has a song saying Goku in trouble after Super Saiyan God appears. Also the soundtrack titles seem to be in order so it could mean Goku struggling with Bils or the form itself.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Fox666 wrote:It's from a scan from the animation comics which says Vegetto is "perhaps even stronger than a Super Saiyan 4" (Goku was the only Super Saiyan 4 to have appeared at the point).
How credible are the animation comics. They could easily be as dis-credible as the V-Jump magazines.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Fox666 wrote:It's from a scan from the animation comics which says Vegetto is "perhaps even stronger than a Super Saiyan 4" (Goku was the only Super Saiyan 4 to have appeared at the point).
How credible are the animation comics. They could easily be as dis-credible as the V-Jump magazines.
Mmm I think the same thing!! ¨Perhaps¨ is a possibility yes, but for me it is a wrong statement to add wood to the fire and create debate.
Vegetto is the most powerful caracter ( fusion ) in DBZ series, but Kakarotto in GT is monstrous. Kakarotto base in GT, is strong as a SSJ3.
Super Saiyan God form or strength or who could be? Mmm I don´t know what to think but really excites me and makes me very curious.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:I still like to get opinions on this stuff.
But...there's basically nothing to base an opinion on yet. I don't see how we could have a discussion on this; it'll just boil down to how strong people want this new form to be.
I don't know why Vegeta is gonna be mad at Goku for becoming this 'Super Saiyan God' when he said "He's number one" when he watched Goku fighting Pure Boo.
Uub wasn't anywhere near full power at any point in that though. While he was getting stronger as the fight progressed (because he was starting to tap into Pure Buu's potential), he was still well short of Pure Buu's strength. We know this because at the end, Goku points out that training Uub and unlocking his full potential for a rematch (thus making Uub as strong as Pure Buu) is one of his motives for taking Uub as a student.
Even in the beginning of GT, we see that Uub still hasn't reached that full potential yet, because while Goku says that he has nothing more to teach Uub, he still sends Uub off after to go train on his own, knowing that Uub still had room to grow before he reached that potential.
The kiai doesn't really indicate anything because Uub wasn't anywhere close to the full strength of Pure Buu when he released it. So using that as a basis for Goku's strength at the end of Z also doesn't really work
No actually you are wrong , Goku said that he will teach him how to use his strength (the strength he can use while he is angry) .
The same thing with Gohan , Picolo was teaching him before the Saiyans arrive to use the strength he can only use while he is angry (the hidden strength).
Uub wasn't anywhere near full power at any point in that though. While he was getting stronger as the fight progressed (because he was starting to tap into Pure Buu's potential), he was still well short of Pure Buu's strength. We know this because at the end, Goku points out that training Uub and unlocking his full potential for a rematch (thus making Uub as strong as Pure Buu) is one of his motives for taking Uub as a student.
Even in the beginning of GT, we see that Uub still hasn't reached that full potential yet, because while Goku says that he has nothing more to teach Uub, he still sends Uub off after to go train on his own, knowing that Uub still had room to grow before he reached that potential.
The kiai doesn't really indicate anything because Uub wasn't anywhere close to the full strength of Pure Buu when he released it. So using that as a basis for Goku's strength at the end of Z also doesn't really work
No actually you are wrong , Goku said that he will teach him how to use his strength (the strength he can use while he is angry) .
The same thing with Gohan , Picolo was teaching him before the Saiyans arrive to use the strength he can only use while he is angry (the hidden strength).
He was testing the water with Uub, seeing if he showed the capacity to be who Goku thought he was, or if he was just another ordinary fighter. Goku went into the fight assuming that Uub was Buu reincarnated, but he still wasn't sure until Uub released that kiai and demonstrated some of his strength.
Besides, you're trying to suggest that by the end of Z, Goku managed to grow over 400 times stronger than he was when he defeated Pure Buu, which is just inconceivable given his lack of training partners, lack of a good training environment to foster strength growth, the time frame he would have had to grow stronger, etc. GT I disregard since the power scaling there is so off the wall, but this is a relatively short time frame, nowhere near enough to garner such a massive strength increase.
Uub wasn't anywhere near full power at any point in that though. While he was getting stronger as the fight progressed (because he was starting to tap into Pure Buu's potential), he was still well short of Pure Buu's strength. We know this because at the end, Goku points out that training Uub and unlocking his full potential for a rematch (thus making Uub as strong as Pure Buu) is one of his motives for taking Uub as a student.
Even in the beginning of GT, we see that Uub still hasn't reached that full potential yet, because while Goku says that he has nothing more to teach Uub, he still sends Uub off after to go train on his own, knowing that Uub still had room to grow before he reached that potential.
The kiai doesn't really indicate anything because Uub wasn't anywhere close to the full strength of Pure Buu when he released it. So using that as a basis for Goku's strength at the end of Z also doesn't really work
No actually you are wrong , Goku said that he will teach him how to use his strength (the strength he can use while he is angry) .
The same thing with Gohan , Picolo was teaching him before the Saiyans arrive to use the strength he can only use while he is angry (the hidden strength).
He was testing the water with Uub, seeing if he showed the capacity to be who Goku thought he was, or if he was just another ordinary fighter. Goku went into the fight assuming that Uub was Buu reincarnated, but he still wasn't sure until Uub released that kiai and demonstrated some of his strength.
Besides, you're trying to suggest that by the end of Z, Goku managed to grow over 400 times stronger than he was when he defeated Pure Buu, which is just inconceivable given his lack of training partners, lack of a good training environment to foster strength growth, the time frame he would have had to grow stronger, etc. GT I disregard since the power scaling there is so off the wall, but this is a relatively short time frame, nowhere near enough to garner such a massive strength increase.
1-Goku knew that Uub is not an ordinary fighter after he raised his power not after he used the Kiai .
GoKu.SaMa wrote:
2- 10 years is not a short period of time .
It's a short time to become 400x stronger under normal Earth conditions without good sparring partner. Plus, there wouldn't be any point in being excited about Oob if Goku could just go SS3 and be 400x stronger than him.
GoKu.SaMa wrote:
2- 10 years is not a short period of time .
It's a short time to become 400x stronger under normal Earth conditions without good sparring partner. Plus, there wouldn't be any point in being excited about Oob if Goku could just go SS3 and be 400x stronger than him.
Ok you might be right , but the important thing is that Goku is stronger than Oob .
