How would you have run things with FUNi's limited resources?

[ABED]

I would also like to point out that Pokemon wasn't just an anime, it was a video game and I think much of the show's popularity stemmed from the enjoyable game.

Yeah that's why I said id like to xD but pokemon was sort of an exception comparing the anime to the videogame which did better? That answer is clear.

I don't know, the game?

[Son Satan]

The musical score had little or nothing to do with the overwhelming success of DBZ in the 90s/2000s compared to "Kai" today. It had more to do with the marketing push, additional merchandising opportunities, timing (a newer product; at the end of the day, "Kai" is still the same series it was 20 years ago), etc.

I also like to believe that the music wouldn't affect the popularity of the show, but, relevant to the thread topic, it had an effect on
FUNimation's income-- If I recall, it's been all but proven that the main purpose behind rescoring the show was to get music royalties brought in for added revenue.

[ABED]

The musical score had little or nothing to do with the overwhelming success of DBZ in the 90s/2000s compared to "Kai" today. It had more to do with the marketing push, additional merchandising opportunities, timing (a newer product; at the end of the day, "Kai" is still the same series it was 20 years ago), etc.

I also like to believe that the music wouldn't affect the popularity of the show, but, relevant to the thread topic, it had an effect on
FUNimation's income-- If I recall, it's been all but proven that the main purpose behind rescoring the show was to get music royalties brought in for added revenue.

Fair enough point, but we can't look to another dimension to see what would've happened if they'd done things properly. Would they have needed that revenue stream?

At the very least we might have had Chris Psaros quit making jokes thinking he was funnier than he truely was or as powerful than he thought he was.

[NeoKING]

Probably would've done the same thing they did. Guys, it was the 90s, animated cartoons as a whole were just stacking ratings left and right. Not everyone had a computer to access hardcore forums with nerds and geeks who've seen episode 321 where Goku becomes the true Saiyan of Legend in Japan, and meets his father, then turns into Super Saiyan 7. Edited however, the kids of '96 would've still ate it up because they didn't know what they were missing and didn't care. It was their thing. Just like how in Latin America nobody knows what Saint Seiya or Captain Tsubasa is but if you mention Knights del Cabelleros or Captain Oliver prepare to get hit with 80s childhood memories.

[ABED]

Probably would've done the same thing they did. Guys, it was the 90s, animated cartoons as a whole were just stacking ratings left and right. Not everyone had a computer to access hardcore forums with nerds and geeks who've seen episode 321 where Goku becomes the true Saiyan of Legend in Japan, and meets his father, then turns into Super Saiyan 7. Edited however, the kids of '96 would've still ate it up because they didn't know what they were missing and didn't care. It was their thing. Just like how in Latin America nobody knows what Saint Seiya or Captain Tsubasa is but if you mention Knights del Cabelleros or Captain Oliver prepare to get hit with 80s childhood memories.

Then if it wouldn't have made a difference, then you might as well produce a product you can believe in.

There are many shows that I liked as a kid and now I go, "what was I thinking?" But there are also kids shows that stand up well as an adult. If they had done Z as they have done Kai, Z could've fallen in the latter category.

I can't believe I forgot, no way in hell would I have let Sean Schemmel voice Kaio-sama! He's good in other roles, and great as Goku, but his Kaio is obnoxious. And for the love of god, someone needed to fire Christopher Neel.

[Pretorious]

So...am I the only one here who stopped watching FUNi's dub because of how awful it was when the Texas cast started? I think I was about 16 at the time and I sure as heck noticed the drop in quality. It mattered a lot. It was utterly unwatchable. I actually became embarrassed to be a fan. I did not feel that way at all about the Ocean-voiced portion of the show.

Edit: To answer the OP's question, I would have directed the acting and music (if their had to be a replacement score) much differently. That wouldn't cost any money.

[Super Sonic]

Have to ask ABED, with your mentoningnot having cast certain actors in the roles they had, what Texas actors would you have cast in said roles? And you're limited to guys born before 1979-1980.

[penguintruth]

Cut costs, embezzle the money, flee the country.

But to be serious, if they couldn't do it right to begin with, they shouldn't have taken it on at all. Unless you have the resources available, don't take on a project of that demand. Don't do it poorly and then say, "Well, we didn't have enough resources back then!" Wah, cry me a river. They didn't have enough money to hire a guy who knew English AND Japanese? Come on.

"But, back then..." Not buying it. They were incompetent, plain and simple. Apologizing for them is just justifying shoddy work. You're part of the problem if you do that.

[ABED]

Have to ask ABED, with your mentoningnot having cast certain actors in the roles they had, what Texas actors would you have cast in said roles? And you're limited to guys born before 1979-1980.

Good question but one which doesn't have an answer. It may have been someone that never got cast in anything due to what they were looking for at the time which was sound alikes. My criterion would be whoever sounded appropriate for the role, and was around the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Wait, I do have two, Brice Armstrong would've gotten the narrator, Kaio-sama and maybe Ginyu, and John Burgmeier would've played Tenshinhan from the beginning. If in this fictional scenario I could get Chris Ayres to voice Freeza I would, though I think Kent Williams might be a good choice for Freeza.

So...am I the only one here who stopped watching FUNi's dub because of how awful it was when the Texas cast started? I think I was about 16 at the time and I sure as heck noticed the drop in quality. It mattered a lot. It was utterly unwatchable. I actually became embarrassed to be a fan. I did not feel that way at all about the Ocean-voiced portion of the show.

Edit: To answer the OP's question, I would have directed the acting and music (if their had to be a replacement score) much differently. That wouldn't cost any money.

I think the cast got better pretty quickly, but I noticed the drop in quality as well. However, I love DBZ and I would've taken whatever I could get my hands on, basically. The thing that made the show embarassing to watch was the terrible dialog such as "Krillin's in da house", "You think? Your diet, huh? Well, you'll be eating my fist next!", or my favorite, "Yes! Yes! I feel great! I can do this! I'm home! I'm awake! I'm alive! I'm wide awake!"

If it all possible, some of the dub scripts could've fixed a few plot holes such as the five minute till explosion thing or the filler scene where Vegeta tells Nappa and Raditz that he knows Freeza blew up their homeworld

Speaking of directing, I would've directed the actors to stop sounding constipated when powering up, and I wouldn't have made them make so many battle yells (for lack of a better word). By battle yells, I mean the "hu, ha, uh!" characters make during the super fast fist fights. Sometimes less is more.

Cut costs, embezzle the money, flee the country.

But to be serious, if they couldn't do it right to begin with, they shouldn't have taken it on at all. Unless you have the resources available, don't take on a project of that demand. Don't do it poorly and then say, "Well, we didn't have enough resources back then!" Wah, cry me a river. They didn't have enough money to hire a guy who knew English AND Japanese? Come on.

"But, back then..." Not buying it. They were incompetent, plain and simple. Apologizing for them is just justifying shoddy work. You're part of the problem if you do that.

It honestly wouldn't have taken more resources than they had to do it right. The only thing they didn't have is access to a seasoned cast, but that was prohibitively expensive and even when they did have them, it's not like the direction they took was that great. The least of my gripes with the dub in 99 was the inexperienced cast. If you were a company and had the opportunity to get your hands on the Dragon Ball license, wouldn't you do it even with the limited resources at their disposal? I don't think it's a case of them not having the money to hire someone who was familiar with the property, I just think they didn't care.

[Beji]

I don't know, the game?

Yes

[Super Sonic]

Thought you would've said some guys who were active at ADV at the time like EVA cast members. Would've said more known names like Ms. Rial, Ms. Christian and Ms. Haag, but don't know if tey were acting a lot back then. (Most of my ADV releases were made 2003-2004 onward).

[Gaffer Tape]

So...am I the only one here who stopped watching FUNi's dub because of how awful it was when the Texas cast started? I think I was about 16 at the time and I sure as heck noticed the drop in quality. It mattered a lot. It was utterly unwatchable. I actually became embarrassed to be a fan. I did not feel that way at all about the Ocean-voiced portion of the show.

Edit: To answer the OP's question, I would have directed the acting and music (if their had to be a replacement score) much differently. That wouldn't cost any money.

No, you're not the only one, although I didn't stop immediately. But it was one of the things that helped prompt me to start watching the original version, and I never looked back. I was only 13 at the time, and I just couldn't believe how amateurish it had suddenly become.

[Ringworm128]

Cut costs, embezzle the money, flee the country.

But to be serious, if they couldn't do it right to begin with, they shouldn't have taken it on at all. Unless you have the resources available, don't take on a project of that demand. Don't do it poorly and then say, "Well, we didn't have enough resources back then!"

One could make the argument that they would have never even gotten the resources if it wasn't for DBZ. I doubt Funimation would have built up it's resources selling (insert two episode OVA from the 80's/90's nobody has ever heard of here). By dubbing something as big as DBZ they were able to pull in heaps of money, and it allowed the voice actors and directors to improve. Whether you love or hate it if it wasn't for the DBZ dub none of Funimations better dubs would exist.

[Kuwabara]

If people don't notice background music (regardless of whatever region or generation we happen to be discussing), why did Toei do the exact same thing for Kai that FUNImation did for Z in 1999 - 2003? There has to be something to what Beji was saying. I don't consider the shows ABED mentioned relevant counter-examples because they're so much different from DBZ, even Batman. If music isn't held to a certain preconceived notion of what would normally be played in sync with what's going on on-screen, people are going to notice.

Before you over-scrutinize or twist what I'm saying (I know, it's hard not to), I'm not saying changing background music is right, but I ultimately think FUNimation made a smart move by doing so. They made money off royalties, and the inclusion of an English Kikuchi track ended up being used as a selling point later on. Despite this, VegettoEX and ABED talk to Beji as if he's a crazy person.

[linkdude20002001]

Most of what they had for the Kikuchi score was monaural, and they wanted a stereo audio track.

[ABED]

If people don't notice background music (regardless of whatever region or generation we happen to be discussing), why did Toei do the exact same thing for Kai that FUNImation did for Z in 1999 - 2003? There has to be something to what Beji was saying. I don't consider the shows ABED mentioned relevant counter-examples because they're so much different from DBZ, even Batman. If music isn't held to a certain preconceived notion of what would normally be played in sync with what's going on on-screen, people are going to notice.

Before you over-scrutinize or twist what I'm saying (I know, it's hard not to), I'm not saying changing background music is right, but I ultimately think FUNimation made a smart move by doing so. They made money off royalties, and the inclusion of an English Kikuchi track ended up being used as a selling point later on. Despite this, VegettoEX and ABED talk to Beji as if he's a crazy person.

What is that preconceived notion and who's making that judgment of what it is? Are American children so different from the rest of the world that they can't enjoy a orchestral score for an action show? As to your point that people will notice, is that a bad thing? Sometimes contrast is a great thing.

And I'm not talking to Beji like he's crazy, I simply disagree with the assessment that American children have a preconceived notion that an action series should have cheap sounding techno music. I don't buy the "that's what kids wanted" argument. If all you do is make stuff based on what people liked, then would you ever get anything new or innovative? You can't make stuff, even if it's a dub, based on customer and marketing surveys. Steve Jobs made that point (not regarding dubs).

I know they made money off of royalties, but if that was enough, why'd they stop replacing scores?

Most of what they had for the Kikuchi score was monaural, and they wanted a stereo audio track.

Is it possible to create a stereo track from a mono?

Back to the main topic. There's some wiggle room with the dub scripts as some things aren't easily translatable. How do you adapt "Ma Junior"? Do you make it Demon Jr. like Viz, do you go with Junior like the dub, or do you keep it "Ma Jr." depsite the significance being lost on Americans?

[Super 17]

If I had to make an English dub and I was in charge of things, I would run it like this.

- The combination of Ocean Dub and Funimation Actors. I kind of like Ocean Dub Vegeta from the Saiyan Saga, but obviously his voice would need to sound a bit more older as the series goes on.

- No cheesy lines. No talking when it's suppose to be silent. Just straight up word for word from the Japanese version.

- Obviously keep the Original Japanese BGM. Hmmm. Most likely either have the insert songs just instrumental or sung in English damn well with the original instrumental.

- The OP/ED's are going to have to somehow be sung in English with the original Japanese instrumentals. It's gonna take a lot of auditions, but I think classics can come out.

I think that's it. Oh! And I said it in the music section, and since it's being discusses here too about US kids not wanting to like DBZ because of the music, I think it's irrelevant. The show would of been as successful as it was all around the world with the original music.

[Kuwabara]

Are American children so different from the rest of the world that they can't enjoy a orchestral score for an action show? As to your point that people will notice, is that a bad thing? Sometimes contrast is a great thing.

And I'm not talking to Beji like he's crazy, I simply disagree with the assessment that American children have a preconceived notion that an action series should have cheap sounding techno music.

I know they made money off of royalties, but if that was enough, why'd they stop replacing scores?

You ignored the part where I said region and time are irrelevant. People are keying on "American children" because that was FUNimation's audience, but any company in the world could have done the exact same thing they did for the exact same reasons. In fact, they did. Check out the UK Ocean dub. Which leads me to ask once again, why did Toei do the exact same thing FUNimation did if people don't respond to certain audio-visual couplings in certain ways, whether they're conscious of it or not?

Lots of action cartoons utilize "cheap techno music" as well, including the original version of DBZ itself! Battle Power Infinity and Solid State Scouter respectively. With this in mind, why is FUNimation giving DBZ the score they did such a stretch? Why is what they did such an abstract concept? There are countless other examples of other cartoons with similar scores as well, regardless of wherever they happened to come from. One would be Yu Yu Hakusho, a series that came out around the same time. While I personally find Yusuke Honma's work on Yu Yu Hakusho far superior to that of Faulconer Productions, both scores have enough of that atmospheric, synth guitar driven sound in common. I can't speak for any of their other licenses at that time, but FUNimation probably didn't replace Hakusho's score for that very reason; DBZ was popular having the score they made for it, and Yu Yu Hakusho's already suited their market just fine. Had Yu Yu Hakusho had a similar score to the Japanese version of DBZ, I wouldn't have been surprised at all by FUNimation changing that as well.

It's pretty easy to see why subsequent licenses from FUNimation didn't have replacement scores. The general anime audience shifted dramatically after the Toonami era as online fan subbing boomed and more and more fans began developing reverence for the original source material.

[MCDaveG]

Is it possible to create a stereo track from a mono?

That's impossible, only do some chorus effect and such and it sounds bad. It's the same like you can't make karaoke from one-layer vocal recording, you need the layers to do it.

[Pretorious]

Is it possible to create a stereo track from a mono?

That's impossible, only do some chorus effect and such and it sounds bad. It's the same like you can't make karaoke from one-layer vocal recording, you need the layers to do it.

It's not technically impossible, but the stereo effects you could create from a mono track would be limited without those original layers you mention. All you have to do is duplicate the mono layer, then make edits to either the new layer or the original. But yeah, it would be lame.

I'm not sure what is bad about having background music be in mono though. If FUNimation wanted a stereo audio track for the English version, they could still have done that with the Kikuchi music in the background by just adding occasional stereo effects to the dialog.