Provide the quote.TheMightyOzaru wrote:You are in fact wrong about Gohan. The Daizenshuus state that Gohan wasn't as powerful at that Budokai because he lacked anger.Undertaker wrote:The time line is the Buu Saga and Gohan is the strongest in the Cell Games. Toei knew how strong Goku was in M10 time line. Goku even shows up in the movie as a SSJ. FPSSJ Goku > SSJ2 Gohan? There is no such a thing as Enraged SSJ2 Gohan. Even Perfect Cell would beat Buu Saga FPSSJ AS HE SHOULD NOT HAD IMPROVED SO MUCH.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Fpssj Goku is stronger than the unenraged ssj2 Gonna at the Cell games IMO. It's ridiculous for ssj Broly to be that strong. Even more so when you consider the fact that Ssj Broly couldn't really do anything to Gohan. There is also the possibility that that excerpt is referring to the Cell Games Goku since Toei was completely unaware of how strong Goku was at the time of the film.
No, it's because Vegeta never existed as a SSJ2 at that time and Gohan was the main character at that arc and the only one known to have SSJ2.hleV wrote:Broli's probably weaker than pre-Majin SS2 Vegeta, hence why Toei didn't let him appear in the movie.
Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2 Goku
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Undertaker
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
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Darkprince410
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
"During the Tenkaichi Budoukai he transforms at Kibito's request. Because he couldn't gain power from anger and because he hadn't been training, he doesn't have the same battle power as when he defeated Cell."
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
Ssj2 Goku is stronger than his son from the Cell Games. Broly isn't that much stronger than Gohan who has been slacking for 7 years and lacks anger. It would appear ssj2 Goku holds the advantage.Fox666 wrote:Both Broli and Goku are stronger than Gohan but an unspecified amount, so I don't think you can be so strict about it.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
This, right here.Fox666 wrote:Both Broli and Goku are stronger than Gohan but an unspecified amount, so I don't think you can be so strict about it.
Furthermore, while we don't need to spiral off into this debate, there are parties who don't necessarily believe Gohan was fighting as a Ssj2 in Movie 10 (the animation makes it a little difficult to tell).
Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
Maybe, but you can't say for sure. Like Fox said all we know is that Cell games Gohan, M10 Broly, and Buu saga Goku are stronger than M10 Gohan. The amount of difference is unknown. It could be a huge difference or it could be a tiny difference.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Ssj2 Goku is stronger than his son from the Cell Games. Broly isn't that much stronger than Gohan who has been slacking for 7 years and lacks anger. It would appear ssj2 Goku holds the advantage.Fox666 wrote:Both Broli and Goku are stronger than Gohan but an unspecified amount, so I don't think you can be so strict about it.
So maybe its
CG Gohan - 100
M10 Gohan - 60
M10 Broly - 70
Goku - 120
Or maybe its
CG Gohan - 100
M10 Gohan - 90
M10 Broly - 110
Goku - 105
It all depends on how you want to interpret everything, but you can make all kinds of numbers work.
Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
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Last edited by Fox666 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
Bro, I've known this argument inside and out for six years. This image is far from the concept of "new" to me. We can just leave it at "There is some room for interpretation here" and move on. I really despise opening this point back up.
Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
I agree, but keep in mind that since this is a movie discussion, the "movie bullcrap" is valid because we are discussing a movie. I don't know is Lssj Broly is up there with Ssj2 Goku, but he should be damn close considering how he 3-shotted Gohan, who was a Ssj2..TheMightyOzaru wrote:I don't take that excerpt seriously at all. It's already ridiculous to suggest Ssj Broly is stronger than Fpssj Goku from the Cell games =/. Movies always tend to spout bull crap.
Gohan might have been a weaker than Goku Ssj2, but he still is a Ssj2.
Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
Having SSJ2 Goku stronger than Broly (m10) sounds as ridiculous as 'Broly had problems with Gohan in m10' to me...
Voltaire: "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
But he did have trouble with Gohan.... I actually suggest watching the film.... Broly is overrated scum that quite frankly plagues the franchise.FNF wrote:Having SSJ2 Goku stronger than Broly (m10) sounds as ridiculous as 'Broly had problems with Gohan in m10' to me...
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
Yeah, that attitude totally doesn't reek of bias.
Broly was tanking Gohan's hits and toying with him the entire time.
Broly was tanking Gohan's hits and toying with him the entire time.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
He is both overrated & underrated by the fan-base.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Broly is overrated scum that quite frankly plagues the franchise.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Undertaker
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
Are you saying SSjin 2 Goku can't three shot SSjin 2 Teen Gohan?FNF wrote:Having SSJ2 Goku stronger than Broly (m10) sounds as ridiculous as 'Broly had problems with Gohan in m10' to me...
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
Of course he can't. Vegeta said that Goku was stronger than Gohan, but Piccolo said that he is perhaps stronger than Gohan. Meaning that there is not a very big difference in their powers.Undertaker wrote:Are you saying SSjin 2 Goku can't three shot SSjin 2 Teen Gohan?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
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Last edited by Fox666 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
Changed my mind about Broli's power. I now have him above SS2 Goku, but below Innocent Boo.
As for M8 Broli, between FP Perfect Cell & Super Perfect Cell level.
As for M8 Broli, between FP Perfect Cell & Super Perfect Cell level.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Undertaker
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
I am talking about Teen Gohan, not Kid Gohan. Vegeta states Gohan was much stronger vs Cell. SSjin 2 Goku is equal to SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta who is quite superior to SSjin 2 Vegeta who should be comparable to SSjin 2 Kid Gohan who is considerably stronger than SSjin 2 Teen Gohan.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Of course he can't. Vegeta said that Goku was stronger than Gohan, but Piccolo said that he is perhaps stronger than Gohan. Meaning that there is not a very big difference in their powers.Undertaker wrote:Are you saying SSjin 2 Goku can't three shot SSjin 2 Teen Gohan?
SSjin 2 Goku ~ SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta > SSjin 2 Kid Gohan >/~ SSjin 2 Vegeta > SSjin 2 Teen Gohan
Piccolo is a terrible ki sensor in the Boo Arc and he corrected himsef so SSjin 2 Goku should be quite superior to SSjin 2 Kid Gohan.
SSjin 2 Goku ~ SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta=1,200
SSjin 2 Kid Gohan=960
SSjin 2 Vegeta=920
SSjin 2 Teen Gohan=720
M10 LSSJ Broly=1,080
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
Should he? Vegeta said that there is not telling if Gohan went angry in Boo arc, and with Piccolo's comment, it's most likely that Cell Games SS2 Gohan is stronger than SS2 Vegeta.Undertaker wrote:I am talking about Teen Gohan, not Kid Gohan. Vegeta states Gohan was much stronger vs Cell. SSjin 2 Goku is equal to SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta who is quite superior to SSjin 2 Vegeta who should be comparable to SSjin 2 Kid Gohan who is considerably stronger than SSjin 2 Teen Gohan.
Based on what? Because he thought for a moment that base Gotenks could beat Evil Boo? That was just because of Gotenks overconfidence, and the fact that he had gotten stronger, he just came into a false, quick conclusion for just a moment.Undertaker wrote:Piccolo is a terrible ki sensor in the Boo Arc
What do you mean?Undertaker wrote:he corrected himsef
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Undertaker
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
M8 Broly would get his ass kicked by FP PC. He is at most around Cell Games FPSSjin Gohan IMO. M10 Broly vs SSjin 2 Goku is debatable.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Changed my mind about Broli's power. I now have him above SS2 Goku, but below Innocent Boo.
As for M8 Broli, between FP Perfect Cell & Super Perfect Cell level.
What does Gohan getting mad have to do with it? Piccolo said that SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta is stronger than SSjin 2 Kid Gohan. Still, it can mean SSjin 2 Vegeta is as strong as SSjin 2 Kid Gohan.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Should he? Vegeta said that there is not telling if Gohan went angry in Boo arc, and with Piccolo's comment, it's most likely that Cell Games SS2 Gohan is stronger than SS2 Vegeta.
Piccolo is so ridiculously below Vegeta and Goku so he can't tell the difference. He could not even tell the difference between Goku and Frieza and Goku is just 2X stronger than him. SSjin 2 Goku should be well above SSjin 2 Kid Gohan. 1.25X stronger at least.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Based on what? Because he thought for a moment that base Gotenks could beat Evil Boo? That was just because of Gotenks overconfidence, and the fact that he had gotten stronger, he just came into a false, quick conclusion for just a moment.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Time to resolve this debate Movie 10 LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2
That's just your opinion.Undertaker wrote:M8 Broly would get his ass kicked by FP PC.
I know, I just stated my opinion. Nothing contradicts LSS Broli > SS2 Goku.Undertaker wrote:M10 Broly vs SSjin 2 Goku is debatable.
If Boo arc SS2 Gohan had gotten angry, he would be around Cell Games SS2 Gohan, since his power didn't change since then. Only problem was that he couldn't get stronger through his anger.Undertaker wrote:What does Gohan getting mad have to do with it?
Of course he is stronger, we already know that. Piccolo just confirmed to his self that Goku & Vegeta are stronger than Gohan, since he wasn't completely sure in the beginning.Undertaker wrote:Piccolo said that SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta is stronger than SSjin 2 Kid Gohan.
Piccolo said that Goku is perhaps stronger than Cell Games Gohan (meaning that he most likely is), and Vegeta had to experience SS2 Goku's power for a 2nd time to confirm if Goku is actually stronger than Gohan.Undertaker wrote:Piccolo is so ridiculously below Vegeta and Goku so he can't tell the difference. He could not even tell the difference between Goku and Freeza and Goku is just 2X stronger than him.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.