Coola's Battle Power.

[Undertaker]

I have Final Form Cooler ~ SSjin Future Trunks (Trunks Saga).

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

...Oh, and I almost forgot. Pretty sure there is a line in the movie saying that Goku's gotten stronger since he returned from Namek. So assuming I'm remember that right, what's a little bit stronger than Goku on Namek? Goku after visiting Yardrat. Ta-da.

I would really like to see what exactly you're referring to. I suspect it might probably be a broad, ambigiuos statement about his power; especially if it's that scene where Gokuu was launching Kamehame-ha waves at Kame'senin's island; I don't think he's in any position to have known anything about how strong Gokuu was on Namek, assuming he can even sense ki. It's not like he saw how strong Gokuu became even since in the Saiya-Jin Saga.

Goku could be stronger than in the 5th movie than he was in the manga. The movie was released before Goku transformed in Super Saiyan in the manga, so they had no idea that Freeza would be able to put a fight against Super Saiyan Goku, unlike the even stronger Coola who was defeated in no time.

Hmm... Where did you hear that? It's interesting and something I've suspected, but I thought someone already commented that Gokuu had already arrived from Yardrat when this movie came out? I dunno. But, anyway, I think it goes without saying that he /could/ be stronger, but I really don't think that was intended to be the case, so I thought it was possible, maybe, SSJ Gokuu was assumed to have killed 50% Freeza and then with Coola, his power wouldn't have to be that much stronger than 50% Freeza to be considered "greater than Freeza" while still getting owned by a Super Saiya-Jin Namek Gokuu.

[RandomGuy96]

Unlike the other V-Jump numbers, I think Cooler's 470 million works just fine.

He said that Goku using invisible kaio-ken x10 (probably) was strong enough to beat Freeza after fighting him. So Goku x 10 = over 120 million.

Then when Goku goes kaio-ken x20, he's no match at all for Cooler's final form. Goku x 20 = over 240 million, but way under 470 million.

But when he goes Super Saiyan, he's much more powerful than Cooler. Goku x 50 = way over 470 million.

This all works if you assume this is near the end of the android training and Goku is at 15 million in base. That would mean kaio-ken x10 Goku = 150 million, kaio-ken x20 Goku = 300 million and Super Saiyan Goku = 750 million. I posted a lot of other possible scenarios in the versus thread if anyone cares.

I don't know if this matters for much, but the character reference in Budokai Tenkaichi 3 also states that Cooler's base form is around the strength of Frieza's final form, and we all saw how big of a boost Cooler's exclusive fifth transformation was.

Hmm... Where did you hear that? It's interesting and something I've suspected, but I thought someone already commented that Gokuu had already arrived from Yardrat when this movie came out? I dunno. But, anyway, I think it goes without saying that he /could/ be stronger, but I really don't think that was intended to be the case, so I thought it was possible, maybe, SSJ Gokuu was assumed to have killed 50% Freeza and then with Coola, his power wouldn't have to be that much stronger than 50% Freeza to be considered "greater than Freeza" while still getting owned by a Super Saiya-Jin Namek Gokuu.

Goku definitely went to Yardrat before Cooler's Revenge, unless you assume he for some reason went to Yardrat after the Androids arrived (somehow), as he explicitly mentions learning Instant Transmission in The Return of Cooler.

Cooler assuming Goku defeated Freeza at 50% power wouldn't make any sense, since Freeza's highest power level in that form without bulking up is 84 million, or 70% power. So Cooler thought that the guy he was fighting with only kaio-ken x10 was more than 84 million. Then Cooler proves to be waaaaaaay over twice as strong as that guy, given his utter mauling of kaio-ken x20 Goku- kaio-ken x20 Goku can't even be 80% of his power, as Freeza, who was 80% of Namek Goku, at least put up a fight. Namek Goku couldn't flat-out ignore and tank Freeza's most powerful attacks, like Cooler could with Goku. So Cooler is waaaaaaaay over 210 million (20% stronger than Goku's 168 million). Having him weaker than Namek Goku or Future Trunks is impossible, given every bit of evidence relating to his power.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

He said that Goku using invisible kaio-ken x10 (probably) was strong enough to beat Freeza after fighting him. So Goku x 10 = over 120 million

I don't think invisible Kaiou-ken theory applies here since they literally show the aura against Coola's Fifth Form.

Goku definitely went to Yardrat before Cooler's Revenge, unless you assume he for some reason went to Yardrat after the Androids arrived (somehow), as he explicitly mentions learning Instant Transmission in The Return of Cooler..

I highly doubt he went to Yardrat; he never displays the ability to do Shunkan Idou whatsoever and hasn't mastered Super Saiya-Jin which he was portrayed doing so after Yardrat. I consider Return of Coola to be an alternate universe within an alternate universe and not really a direct sequel to Coola's Revenge.

[Saiga]

Isn't the whole invisible Kaio-ken thing bollocks to begin with?

[RandomGuy96]

Is it? I saw no evidence that it was, and in fact Goku's fight against Frieza where Frieza had to go 50% to win heavily implies otherwise. Where are you getting this?

I don't think invisible Kaiou-ken theory applies here since they literally show the aura against Coola's Fifth Form.

Same thing happened against Frieza. Kaio-ken x10 was invisible, kaio-ken x20 was not. If I recall correctly.

I highly doubt he went to Yardrat; he never displays the ability to do Shunkan Idou whatsoever and hasn't mastered Super Saiya-Jin which he was portrayed doing so after Yardrat. I consider Return of Coola to be an alternate universe within an alternate universe and not really a direct sequel to Coola's Revenge.

There's no evidence of that. Not only does Return of Cooler reference the events of Cooler's Revenge in detail, but there are flashbacks to it. There's simply no way that he didn't go to Yardrat. Goku went to Yardrat and had plot-induced stupidity on Earth, just like every other movie where the heroes try to fight the villains in base. Live with it.

[Kaboom]

Live with it.

Let's try to avoid this, please.

And what happened in later movies really doesn't affect things in prior ones. Toei's writers maybe not knowing about Instant Movement yet in time for Movie 5 doesn't change anything for Movie 6 later, or vice-versa. The movies aren't nearly so well-connected and seamless in their non-continuity.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Is it? I saw no evidence that it was, and in fact Goku's fight against Freeza where Freeza had to go 50% to win heavily implies otherwise. Where are you getting this?

Thing is, in the manga, they actually /did/ show the Kaiou-ken aura on Gokuu, but King Kaiou fully emphasised that he was using tenfold the entire time. Unlike this movie, there is no manga version, and he's clearly shown having a clear aura and a red, Kaiou-ken aura. Even if you consider the times he does have any aura against Coola, the rest of the fight, Gokuu is aura-less, and Kaiou-ken always gives Gokuu an aura in the manga; always, no exception except for inconsistent, anime filler.

There's no evidence of that. Not only does Return of Cooler reference the events of Cooler's Revenge in detail, but there are flashbacks to it. There's simply ni way that he didn't go to Yardrat. Goku went to Yardrat and had plot-induced stupidity on Earth, just like every other movie where the heroes try to fight the villains in base. Live with it.

What Kaboom said. There's really nothing to suggest he /did/ go to Yardrat; considering the movies constantly contradict canon events and even logic of their own spin-offs, it's not far off assume Return of Coola contradicts its loose prequel.

Here's a random idea I wanted to share with everyone (not that I'm taking it seriously): Let's say Coola nor Gokuu knew about Freeza's "100%" state, and only faced their 50%/ 70% power; so Freeza might have developed his "100%" state in a desperate attempt to match his brother (according to this movie's universe's logic) away from public eye and on his own terms, so maybe 5th Form Coola was actually /weaker/ than 100% state Freeza which could explain how a SSJ Namek Gokuu can take a punch to the abdomen without any sign of anything unlike how he got surprised by 100% Freeza.

^ This idea would be based on the idea that Freeza's 100% state and Coola's 5th Forms were like SSJ Grade II/III/ SSJ2. Any thoughts of this?

[RandomGuy96]

Very unlikely, to say the least. King Cold knew about Frieza's full power, there's no reason at all Cooler wouldn't. And even if you assume that he didn't know about Frieza's 100% power form, he still said that base Goku > 70% Frieza, meaning Cooler himself is either WAY over 168 million (210 million is the absolute minimum) or very easily in the billions, if you assume that was base Goku and not kaio-ken x10 Goku.

Also, Goku flat-out stated that Cooler's ki was greater than Frieza's when he transformed.

On Frieza's race's forms matching the Super Saiyan forms: that's what I always assumed. Cooler's and Frieza's "true" forms are their species' equivalent of a Super Saiyan, while Chilled/King Cold/Frieza's first two forms show the "base" of the species. Cooler's version of the form is the equivalent to a Full Power Super Saiyan, as it's more powerful than Frieza's version and he has more control of it. Frieza's 100% form is the equivlanet of a USS, roughly doubling the user's power at the cost of massive energy consumption. Cooler's final form is the equivalent of a Super Saiyan 2, a much more powerful and all-around better USS without the energy and speed issues.

I wonder if Cooler had to train to master his true form like that. Frieza could barley control himself in that form yet Cooler was composed and comfortable enough in that form to walk around in it all the time.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Very unlikely, to say the least. King Cold knew about Freeza's full power, there's no reason at all Cooler wouldn't.

I was under the impression it was ambiguous.

And even if you assume that he didn't know about Freeza's 100% power form, he still said that base Goku > 70% Freeza,

I don't think he actually said /that/ specifically. I think he was saying he could see how someone like Gokuu could have been able to kill Freeza, and he's made similiar comments that gave me the impression, that, Coola wouldn't have been surprised if Freeza took him lightly, as he's mentioned Freeza being "the soft one", and got killed by Gokuu with a surprising amount of strength before he was even ready (which did seem to almost happen several times with Freeza). For all he knew, Coola might have thought that Gokuu killed Freeza in his very weak first form.

meaning Cooler himself is either WAY over 168 million (210 million is the absolute minimum) or very easily in the billions, if you assume that was base Goku and not kaio-ken x10 Goku.

No? Coola could have just been holding back a lot of power like Freeza was in his fourth form. I don't see the need to have to assume he /has/ to be over Freeza's 70% in his fourth form or even beyond Freeza's 100% in his Fifth Form by so much.

I also don't get why when people do that, they only make SSJ Gokuu a few millions stronger than Coola, yet he's able to take punches to his abdomen by Coola like breeze in the wind.

Also, Goku flat-out stated that Cooler's ki was greater than Freeza's when he transformed.

Which is why I think it's possible this movie is based in an alternate universe where he became SSJ and killed Freeza before he used 100% or even 70% power. Even if he did mean that he was even stronger than 100% Freeza, why does it have to be so much larger? If anything, if it's too large, I don't see why Gokuu wouldn't have been annihilated in one punch even with Kaiou-ken x20.

[RandomGuy96]

I was under the impression it was ambiguous.

It's really not. The guidebooks say that Cold is only somewhat inferior to Frieza. and Cold fully acknowledged that Frieza was stronger than him. Given that they're supposedly so close in power, he wouldn't have known this unless he saw Frieza's 100% power. Also, if he didn't know about 100% Frieza's power, then he wouldn't have known that the cybernetic enhancements made him stronger.

I don't think he actually said /that/ specifically. I think he was saying he could see how someone like Gokuu could have been able to kill Freeza, and he's made similiar comments that gave me the impression, that, Coola wouldn't have been surprised if Freeza took him lightly, as he's mentioned Freeza being "the soft one", and got killed by Gokuu with a surprising amount of strength before he was even ready (which did seem to almost happen several times with Freeza). For all he knew, Coola might have thought that Gokuu killed Freeza in his very weak first form.

That's a very illogical conclusion for many reasons:

1. Piccolo was stronger than Frieza's first forms. Yet Cooler didn't assume that Piccolo could kill Frieza.

2. Piccolo was known by Cooler to be an ally of Goku. The fact that he mistook Cooler for Frieza is kind of a dead give-away that Cooler knew Frieza was killed in his final form.

3. It doesn't make sense from a Doylist perspective, and relies on completely twisting the meaning of a statement with no evidence.

4. Cooler concludes that Goku is strong enough to beat Frieza after fighting evenly with him. Cooler's normal form would have to be insanely weak (which nothing suggests and a few things contradict) for Goku to be Namek-level and not get insta-squashed.

No? Coola could have just been holding back a lot of power like Freeza was in his fourth form.

If he was using, say, 20% power, he wouldn't have needed to transform at all, he would've powered up before taking any hits, and he wouldn't have assumed that the person fighting him could beat Frieza, unless you want to make Cooler THAT strong.

I don't see the need to have to assume he /has/ to be over Freeza's 70% in his fourth form or even beyond Freeza's 100% in his Fifth Form by so much.

The need is because:

Statements made by both characters flat-out say that Cooler is way stronger than Frieza.

Official numbers have Cooler way stronger than Frieza, and they match up with the movie.

Cooler's comments, which are uncontradicted, logical, and fit with official numbers, imply that his final form is well over twice as strong as Frieza's max, possibly even more than 20 times as strong.

I also don't get why when people do that, they only make SSJ Gokuu a few millions stronger than Coola, yet he's able to take punches to his abdomen by Coola like breeze in the wind.

They've got sort of a point, it was a pretty half-assed punch and Cooler laughed off Goku's retaliation. That said I have Cooler as about 70% of Movie 5/Android Arc Goku myself.

Which is why I think it's possible this movie is based in an alternate universe where he became SSJ and killed Freeza before he used 100% or even 70% power.

Why? Because Cooler is stronger than Frieza? Like I said, there's no reason to assume that Cooler didn't think that Frieza didn't use at least 70% power. He probably assumed he used 100%.

Even if he did mean that he was even stronger than 100% Freeza, why does it have to be so much larger?

Because every bit of evidence ever given relating to Cooler's power says it is?

If anything, if it's too large, I don't see why Gokuu wouldn't have been annihilated in one punch even with Kaiou-ken x20.

1. Cooler was obviously dragging it out to make Goku suffer. He's Frieza's brother, after all.

2. Someone at 300 million won't just die in one half-assed punch from someone at 470 million.

In conclusion:

1. You completely change the meaning of/ignore several statements, and assume that the characters don't know what they're talking about, like Frieza's brother somehow not knowing how strong he is.

2. You try to make some weird alternate universe, which no evidence suggests exists, to make Cooler seem weaker.

3. You ignore official numbers because they don't fit your fan assumptions.

What exactly do you use to determine his power and why should it be taken more seriously than all of the above?

[Kaboom]

1. You completely change the meaning of/ignore several statements, and assume that the characters don't know what they're talking about, like Freeza's brother somehow not knowing how strong he is.

Coola knows that a Super Saiyan was the one who defeated Freeza. Even if Piccolo's just as powerful as base Goku, Coola wouldn't be interested in him.

"You did well enough to defeat my brother" does not 100%, no-other-possible-explanation, mean "the full power of your base form and/or Kaio-Ken power-up is greater than my brother's maximum power level of 120 million." It's given vaguely, and it's fully acceptable to interpret it in more than one way. Coola wasn't on Namek when it happened. There's a hundred different ways Goku could have defeated Goku with his 3 million or so power that wouldn't necessitate Freeza having powered up all the way.

Coola very well could have been holding back a lot of power even without transforming. We saw that Freeza bulked up and changed his appearance when he went to 100%, so it's not illogical to think that Coola would likewise change if he did. Heck, a popular theory, one I like myself, is that Coola's transformation IS his own version of the 100% state, just more practical. Like Super Saiyan 2 compared to Grade 3 or something.

And an explanation isn't even necessary. Holding back for "round one" to test your opponent happens ALL THE TIME in the movies. Look at all the times Goku has started off fighting a movie villain without Kaio-Ken, without Super Saiyan, without Super Saiyan 3, etc. Who says the villains can't do the same?

2. You try to make some weird alternate universe, which no evidence suggests exists, to make Cooler seem weaker.

None of the movies fit into the main manga, so they all can be considered some sort of alternate universe. Unless a backstory of some sort is given for what caused things to be different, then it's up to the fans to speculate. Theorizing that the Freeza battle may have happened in some different way in Movie 5's "universe" is no more or less valid than any other fan interpretation.

3. You ignore official numbers because they don't fit your fan assumptions.

Ah, the big one. To insist upon accepting one of the official numbers from that V-Jump article about Budokai 3 would mean holding that the other three are just as valid. But that's borderline impossible, since those three numbers are actually incompatible with each other.So given that, and that they're, well, just in regards to a game, nobody has to take them into account if they don't want to.

What exactly do you use to determine his power and why should it be taken more seriously than all of the above?

Whatever it is, it doesn't need to be taken any more seriously than your choice of material or methods.

[lash]

Goku could be stronger than in the 5th movie than he was in the manga. The movie was released before Goku transformed in Super Saiyan in the manga, so they had no idea that Freeza would be able to put a fight against Super Saiyan Goku, unlike the even stronger Coola who was defeated in no time.

You're confusing movie 4. Movie 5 was released way after Goku transformed and defeated Freeza as a SSJ(in Weekly Jump).



As for the topic, there's obviously no real answer to how powerful Cooler is in his fifth state. We just know he's within the tier of SSJ Goku in that movie. Presumably because after fighting him Goku is shown gassed the fuck out.
As for Cooler's regular state, its strongly implied in the movie to be inferior to Freeza's(as in his Final form). By the quotes stated in the film, Cooler apparently thought Freeza was done in due to Goku's tenacity or something of the sort, but he made it clear it wasn't necessarily because of Goku's strength (which some people have come to misinterpret it to mean Base movie 5 Goku > SSJ Namek Goku, or some similar absurdity). Only until SSJ Goku was shown did Cooler actually state that Freeza would be absolutely no match for Goku.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

There are no official battle powers on Coola; V-Jump has literally been proven to contradict itself and proven to be unreliable, ignorant garbage; it wouldn't be the first time a character makes an assumption that isn't entirely true or only somewhat true such as Freeza assuming Gokuu killed the entire Ginyuu Force even though he just arm-grappled an over 200,000+ Vegeta, plus the beginning has Neize, Sauzer and Doore /telling/ him that Freeza was killed by a Saiya-Jin; the entire theme of the movie was Coola coming to witness the very power he exerted on Namek to defeat his brother, so his statements are contradicted, and it wouldn't be the first time someone allowed themselves to get physically damaged before powering up, such as Freeza, so yes, he probably was only using a small percentage of power in his fourth form.

[RandomGuy96]

There are no official battle powers on Coola; V-Jump has literally been proven to contradict itself and proven to be unreliable, ignorant garbage;

I'm under the impression that, unless contradicted, any numbers given out by an official publication are canon, rather than what a fan thinks makes sense because a movie's storyline vaguely resembles a storyline from the main story. I could understand Broly's and Gogeta's levels being rejected; they don't make sense mathematically. Cooler's level, however, is not contradicted and makes sense in the context of the movie, so there's no reason it should be thrown out out of hand.

it wouldn't be the first time a character makes an assumption that isn't entirely true or only somewhat true such as Freeza assuming Gokuu killed the entire Ginyuu Force even though he just arm-grappled an over 200,000+ Vegeta

Character statements are reliable until proven otherwise, given that they, along with that V-Jump article, are the only things we have relating to Cooler's power. If you want to just dispense with every single bit of information that hints at how strong he is and make up your own level, go ahead, but don't try to pretend like you're more wise for doing so.

plus the beginning has Neize, Sauzer and Doore /telling/ him that Freeza was killed by a Saiya-Jin; the entire theme of the movie was Coola coming to witness the very power he exerted on Namek to defeat his brother

No, it's about Frieza's stronger older brother coming to kill the guy who killed Frieza out of a sense of pride. You think he wouldn't do that if he was near-identical to Frieza like you claim.

so his statements are contradicted

Where? He says that the power Goku showed against him was strong enough to beat Frieza. No one contradicted it and Goku actually seemed to agree, by saying "I won't disappoint you" when asked to be shown that power. He says he's stronger than Frieza. Nothing contradicts it and Goku says he agrees.

and it wouldn't be the first time someone allowed themselves to get physically damaged before powering up, such as Freeza,

So wait, your ENTIRE argument for that number being wrong is that he MIGHT have been lying just because someone else at some other time in the series did? Nothing suggests that he's as weak as you claim and everything contradicts it.

Also, not sure if this is relevant, but a few video games said that Cooler's power in his normal form is similar to Frieza's. The movie doesn't contradict this, and if you assume he was at, say, 84 million (Frieza's max in the same form), then invisible kaio-ken x10 Goku would be at around 9 million or more, kaio-ken x20 Goku would be at 180 million or more, Cooler's fifth form would be waaaaaaaaay above that, and Super Saiyan Goku would be at 450 million. And that's low-balling it. I'd assume that Cooler's "true" form would actually be moderately stronger than Frieza's final form (maybe not his 100% power) given that he was higher-ranked and regarded as more powerful than Frieza by the henchmen and Cold even though, according to him, no one had ever seen his fifth form (Cold clearly knew about Frieza's final form, on the other hand). That and he regards anyone that fights evenly with him as strong enough to beat Frieza.

It just doesn't add up. Even if you assume Goku was using the invisible kaio-ken x10, fifth form Cooler has to be way more powerful than final form Cooler, at least over three times as much, and for Goku to be able to match Cooler's true form form with just the invisible kaio-ken x10 he'd have to be pretty high in base as well. Unless you assume, for no reason, that Cooler could've simply powered up and roflstomped Goku at any time in his normal form if he wanted, and here I think it's better to just take Occam's Razor and assume that he actually transformed to win. That, and all of the other stuff that suggests that the power Cooler put out against Goku in their scuffle would be at least equal to Frieza's final form power.

so yes, he probably was only using a small percentage of power in his fourth form.

Then why didn't he simply power-up and roflstomp Goku instead of transforming? And why did he say the fight Goku gave him proved that he was strong enough to kill Frieza if Cooler wasn't fighting at anywhere near Frieza's level? Again, your entire basis for the magazine being wrong relies on making completely random guesses and ignoring the few statements that we have that hint at Cooler's power. It also relies on the movie following what you think would be thematically appropriate. Cooler being at 124 million ALSO contradicts the whole fight with Frieza, more so the anime than the manga, which you try to justify by saying that Goku was just letting himself be hit and got surprised a few times, even though it seems unlikely that he'd fight at anything other than full power when he was so angry, and the course of the fight fully suggests that he was, given his reaction shots.

In my own personal opinion, Cooler being at 470 million is fine, and him being at 210 million is the absolute minimum, given the behavior and statements of him and Goku in the movie.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Where? He says that the power Goku showed against him was strong enough to beat Freeza. No one contradicted it and Goku actually seemed to agree, by saying "I won't disappoint you" when asked to be shown that power. He says he's stronger than Freeza. Nothing contradicts it and Goku says he agrees.

No, he doesn't agree; it would be a lie to do so, considering he killed Freeza as a Super Saiya-Jin.

And stop acting like I'm trying to disprove your interpretation; I'm merely throwing out ideas and trying to back them up in hopes you and everyone else understands; there's no need to act snippy like you are with me.

[RandomGuy96]

Sorry if I've come off that way. I know you're not trying to disprove my interpretation, never suggested otherwise, it's just a pet peeve of mine when people call something they don't agree with "unreliable, ignorant garbage" because it doesn't fit THEIR interpretation, even if it doesn't contradict the source material itself.

[Kaboom]

I'm under the impression that, unless contradicted, any numbers given out by an official publication are canon, rather than what a fan thinks makes sense because a movie's storyline vaguely resembles a storyline from the main story. I could understand Broly's and Gogeta's levels being rejected; they don't make sense mathematically. Cooler's level, however, is not contradicted and makes sense in the context of the movie, so there's no reason it should be thrown out out of hand.

As refreshing as it is to see the opposite of the "official numbers are garbage if they don't agree with my rules" outlook, holding strictly to the opposite approach isn't necessarily healthy, either. There have been a good handful of "official" numbers in older magazine articles and the like which seem to have problems or actual, legitimate contradictions within them. In some cases, they haven't been reprinted in anything since then, which might indicate the folks at Shueisha who put together the guidebooks don't consider them worth holding to, either.

So like I've mentioned before, if something really seems off, like the number for Coola in question does for plenty of folks, there's no need for any given fan to hold them in any sort of high regard. Especially given the aforementioned reasons of 1) they're just for a game, and 2) it's not even compatible with the other two numbers listed alongside it.

Personally, I just plain don't think it fits with the timeframe of the film. Movie 5 is obviously set up as either a parallel to the Freeza battle or very shortly after it, and logic would dictate that all the relevant characters would be about the same level of power as such, or only slightly stronger at best. Assigning a number to Coola that's nearly 4x stronger than Freeza is like giving Garlic Jr a number equivalent to Nappa or Vegeta. I get the feeling that nobody was pushing 500 million until Super Saiyans and Androids were butting heads.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Sorry if I've come off that way. I know you're not trying to disprove my interpretation, never suggested otherwise, it's just a pet peeve of mine when people call something they don't agree with "unreliable, ignorant garbage" because it doesn't fit THEIR interpretation, even if it doesn't contradict the source material itself.

I made that comment because you were acting like it was unquestionable fact and that I was ignorant for not accepting it. You were acting snippy even before that.

[Bussani]

I'm under the impression that, unless contradicted, any numbers given out by an official publication are canon, rather than what a fan thinks makes sense because a movie's storyline vaguely resembles a storyline from the main story.

There aren't really any solid rules for determining canonicity. It's very much based on opinion, so not everyone will agree with this impression.