Coola's Battle Power.

[RandomGuy96]

And that's fine, but having Cooler be below Namek Goku or Future Trunks (who's supposedly around Namek Goku's level) just defies what's shown and implied. This movie fits in the three years training for the androids, and the guidebooks seem to agree that this is the best place for it to be set. So the Goku in this movie is stronger than the Goku on Yardrat who is stronger than the Goku on Namek. Another notable thing: Cooler knows immediately that Freeza was killed in his final form, since Piccolo mistakes Cooler for Freeza, and Cooler doesn't think Piccolo could be a threat to Freeza despite him being stronger than Freeza's first three forms by this point. But upon seeing Goku survive his eye lasers and fire a blast back (which Cooler easily deflects), he immediately concludes that Goku could be the one who beat Freeza.

So, just to recap: Only being heavily wounded rather than dying from a casual uncharged blast from Cooler = around the level of Freeza's final form (MAYBE not 100%, but there's no reason he shouldn't at least assume 70%, the maximum Freeza could power up to in his non-bulked out final form). Actually fighting evenly with Cooler = stronger than Freeza's final form. According to uncontradicted statements, which match up with the numbers.

Also, Cooler's transformation is clearly more than a x2 boost (Goku goes at least x2 his previous power to combat him, and still gets whooped despite seemingly winning against him before) so unless you want to assume that Cooler is significantly weaker than Freeza in the same forms (Freeza's power in his non-bulked out final form is 84 million), which nothing suggests and a few things contradict, then Cooler has to be well over 200 million, at the very least. With that in mind, theoretically there's nothing wrong with the V-Jump number. Even assuming that he's "only" between 200 and 300 million, there's still a decent list of Super Saiyans he could actually beat. Future Gohan, Future Trunks (pre-ROSAT), Namek Goku, Bardock (OBVIOUSLY!), possibly Yardrat Goku... I think that's it, for shown ones at least.

And basically, that's why I think Cooler's number is fine. His normal form is heavily implied to be stronger than Freeza's equivalent form and even his 100% power, and Cooler's transformation is clearly a huge boost. Those are my thoughts.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

It's pretty clear to me that this movie was intended to take place directly after the battle with Freeza; after re-watching the Return of Coola, it seems blatant that Gokuu had used the technique Shunkan Idou against Coola only when he was Meta, and that was when Coola recognised it or that it was ever specifically referenced in the plot. Unlike Coola's Revenge, where it's not remotely implied he knew or ever used it on him; there's a good reason to suspect it ignores post-Freeza canonical events and to assume Return of Coola is only semi-canonical to Coola's Revenge.

[Duo]

I just give it up to Goku being stronger than he was against Freeza for no other reason then to wrap up the ending of the movie cleanly and quickly. For in-universe, you could say he got a near-death power up from Coola's eye beam?

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Sauzer seemed surprised at his Power Level post-Senzu Bean, but why now? According to the Daizenshuu, his and the rest of the group were only around 200,000 yet they thought they could beat him then, but he was surprised only after the Senzu? I think it possibly suggests Gokuu was just holding back at that original fight and the Senzu merely made him more serious, similar to how he "forgot" Super Saiya-Jin for a bit. I think it's ambiguous if it's even supposed to be a zenkai or not.

[Duo]

Sauzer seemed surprised at his Power Level post-Senzu Bean, but why now? According to the Daizenshuu, his and the rest of the group were only around 200,000 yet they thought they could beat him then, but he was surprised only after the Senzu? I think it possibly suggests Gokuu was just holding back at that original fight and the Senzu merely made him more serious, similar to how he "forgot" Super Saiya-Jin for a bit. I think it's ambiguous if it's even supposed to be a zenkai or not.

All of it is ambiguous. That's why I feel the movies should receive significantly less scrutiny on the subject of battle powers.

[RandomGuy96]

They also thought that they could take the guy who killed Freeza. Either those power levels are wrong (my hypothesis) or Salza is an idiot whose judgement shouldn't mean anything.

And again, the most logical place for this movie is the androids training, and this is where the guidebooks place it. This movie happens well over a year after Freeza's defeat, and the statements made in the movie generally heavily imply if not outright state that Cooler is way over 200 million and Goku is much higher than that.

[Duo]

They also thought that they could take the guy who killed Freeza. Either those power levels are wrong (my hypothesis) or Salza is an idiot whose judgement shouldn't mean anything.

And again, the most logical place for this movie is the androids training, and this is where the guidebooks place it. This movie happens well over a year after Freeza's defeat, and the statements made in the movie generally heavily imply if not outright state that Cooler is way over 200 million and Goku is much higher than that.

Why does Gohan look exactly the same as he did on Namek? Why doesn't Goku know Instant Movement? Why does he struggle to turn Super Saiyan?

No, the movie does not fit. It fits nowhere. Wasn't made to fit. Shouldn't be forced to.

[Darkprince410]

They also thought that they could take the guy who killed Freeza. Either those power levels are wrong (my hypothesis) or Salza is an idiot whose judgement shouldn't mean anything.

And again, the most logical place for this movie is the androids training, and this is where the guidebooks place it. This movie happens well over a year after Freeza's defeat, and the statements made in the movie generally heavily imply if not outright state that Cooler is way over 200 million and Goku is much higher than that.

Why does Gohan look exactly the same as he did on Namek? Why doesn't Goku know Instant Movement? Why does he struggle to turn Super Saiyan?

No, the movie does not fit. It fits nowhere. Wasn't made to fit. Shouldn't be forced to.

That's why I've always said that I think movie 5 takes place in some alternate time period when Goku, rather than opting to come to Earth on his own time (which is how he came to transform at will and learn the Shunkan Idou), let Gohan and the others wish him to Earth. It'd go to explaining the otherwise inconsistencies of movie 5 far better than trying to fit it into the events of the manga/anime anywhere (even though where I say it should take place still doesn't explain everything).

[Duo]

Even though your explanation works pretty well, I don't even care enough to classify the events as an "alternate timeline". To me, it's just a fun side story that doesn't fit with the main history. I don't see the point in paying it much more thought than that, let alone any of the movies.

[Darkprince410]

I prefer to look at it that way too, but it seems that no matter what, there's always someone trying to determine where the movies fit in with the timeline, so I still try to look at them as far as where I'd put them in the canon story (if possible) or what events I think would need to be be added or ignored for the movie to fit.

[RandomGuy96]

Another thing to consider with the OP's theory: I seem to recall Roshi stating quite clearly that Goku had gotten much stronger since he got back from Namek. He also says that this Goku is now training harder than ever (giving more credence to the idea of where this movie could fit in the timeline). And in this timeline, Goku obviously went to Yardrat, since he shows off Instant Transmission in the direct sequel to this movie. This creates a clear chain: Movie 5 Goku >> Yardrat Goku >>> Namek Goku.

Why does Gohan look exactly the same as he did on Namek? Why doesn't Goku know Instant Movement? Why does he struggle to turn Super Saiyan?

What's different about his appearance? His hair?

He demonstrates in the direct sequel that he does. Furthermore, why doesn't he use instant movement against 19? Why doesn't he ever use that instant kamehameha against anyone ever again? Plot Induced Stupidity. Same reason he doesn't use Solar Flare + Destructo Disk on everyone.

This is the only thing that can genuinely be called a plot hole. Once again, Plot Induced Stupidity. Same reason why he doesn't turn into a Super Saiyan immediately in Movie 7 when he gets the shit kicked out of him. Also, maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but in the anime when Trunks asked him if he could turn Super Saiyan at will, he said "most of the time". Also, this is inconsistent in more ways than one, even in the main series; he COULD activate and deactivate Super Saiyan at will on Namek, and in the direct sequel to this movie (which also has flashbacks to this movie and mentions the events of it numerous times) he states that he did go to Yardrat. Overall, given everything else that happens in this movie and the place where the guidebooks said it would best fit, it's probably more logical to just accept one minor plot hole. It's not like "Character X didn't do Y to win" has made something unworkable in the timeline before- otherwise, this series wouldn't exist.

Also, something I noticed: Doore, Cooler's strongest minion, has a power level of 185,000. I don't think the magazine that gave those numbers is accurate, since that would mean he's somehow stronger than Salza which is blatantly not the case in the movie. However, if you DO take that as accurate, then simply multiplying his power by 1000 can give you a general idea of Cooler's power. The reason? I recently noticed that Ginyu, Frieza's strongest subordinate, is exactly 1000 times weaker than him.

To further emphasize why it would be impossible for Namek Goku or Freeza to be even close to Cooler: Cooler, after a little scuffle with base Goku, says that he's strong enough to beat Freeza. Then later, when Goku goes Super Saiyan, Cooler says "I see. So this is why my brother was no match for you." So not only was he expecting to easily kill the guy who was stronger than Freeza, he was expecting that guy to much, much stronger than Freeza. So:

Movie 5 SS Goku > Cooler >>> Cooler's estimation of Freeza's killer >>>>>>>>>> full power Freeza.

[Amuro Ray]

If anything, I think this movie directly implies that Goku Killed Frieza on Namek and went straight back to Earth - evidence to suggest this would be the using the kaio Ken and the difficulty in transforming into SuperSayjin. Otherwise, Goku in the movie would be stronger than namek Goku, but probably as strong (or weaker) than Yardart Goku meaning Cooler was stronger than Frieza, but not enough to give Goku problems.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Cooler, after a little scuffle with base Goku, says that he's strong enough to beat Freeza.

He does not say that. He says something along the lines of how he could see him defeating Freeza; I'm not sure what the original dub says, however. Either way, if anyone has actual proof that he says "He was stronger than Freeza," I'd love to see, but I honestly took his words as "I could see how you could have caught my brother by surprise."

Then later, when Goku goes Super Saiyan, Cooler says "I see. So this is why my brother was no match for you." So not only was he expecting to easily kill the guy who was stronger than Freeza, he was expecting that guy to much, much stronger than Freeza. So:

Movie 5 SS Goku > Cooler >>> Cooler's estimation of Freeza's killer >>>>>>>>>> full power Freeza.

He also says in the English dub, that, his brother deserved to die if he was defeated by a "weakling like you;" possibly suggesting Gokuu wasn't as strong as he thought after all.

[RandomGuy96]

He does not say that. He says something along the lines of how he could see him defeating Freeza; I'm not sure what the original dub says, however. Either way, if anyone has actual proof that he says "He was stronger than Freeza," I'd love to see, but I honestly took his words as "I could see how you could have caught my brother by surprise."

He specifically says "strong enough to defeat my brother". If he thought Freeza was caught by surprise, Goku's power wouldn't matter one bit- and he knows Freeza was killed in his final form and he knows that Freeza doesn't transform into his final form unless he's in the middle of a battle. So there's no reason to assume that he thought Freeza was caught by surprise. He had every reason to think that Freeza was fully aware and powered up when killed.

He also says in the English dub, that, his brother deserved to die if he was defeated by a "weakling like you;" possibly suggesting Gokuu wasn't as strong as he thought after all.

1. 99% sure that was dub only.

2. He wasn't exactly fond of his brother. Given his power, there's no reason Cooler shouldn't have considered Freeza a weakling compared to himself; plus, earlier he outright stated that Goku was strong enough to beat Freeza.

3. If this WAS a dub-only line, then it would contradict the original script, where he said that base/invisible kaio-ken x10 Goku was "as strong as he expected", i.e. stronger than Freeza,, while Super Saiyan Goku was strong enough that Freeza would be "no match".

Also: I noticed that a few video games, like Budokai 3 and Tenkaichi 3 heavily imply that Cooler is several times as strong as Freeza in his final form. And the Daizenshuu places this movie timeline wise sometime in the 3 years training for the androids (this is supported by a lot of the stuff I brought up above, like Goku training hard, Goku being said to have gotten more powerful since he landed on Earth, and Goku referencing having been to Yardrat in the direct sequel). Given all of his other comments... yeah, there's not a lot (or anything, really) to suggest that Cooler is weaker than Namek Goku.

[Kaboom]

He specifically says "strong enough to defeat my brother." If he thought Freeza was caught by surprise, Goku's power wouldn't matter one bit- and he knows Freeza was killed in his final form and he knows that Freeza doesn't transform into his final form unless he's in the middle of a battle.

Technically, no, not quite. Coola's line is "you did well enough to defeat [my brother/Freeza]," and nothing indicates he knew how the battle actually unfolded. He wasn't present at Namek when it happened, and any aftermath involving Cold and Freeza's mecha-resurrection would be part of the Trunks arc, which Movie 5 in general either precedes or just doesn't seem to take into account.

[RandomGuy96]

Thank you for the correction. Actually, that supports the idea that Cooler is several times as strong as Freeza even more. He says that Goku did "well enough" in straight combat with him (Cooler) to defeat Freeza. I don't know how it gets any clearer than that. So to recap:

*He knows that Goku did good enough in straight-up combat (where he fought evenly with Cooler) to "defeat" Freeza. His use of the word defeat is important; that means that he thinks that the Goku who is, at most, using kaio-ken x10, who is strong enough to fight evenly with his base form, is strong enough to best Freeza in combat, not simply kill him while his back is turned.
*He knows that Freeza was killed in his final form. Whether he thinks Freeza used 70% or 100% power is debatable, but purely from a Doylist perspective, we should probably assume that one character is always mentioning the strongest version of another character when making direct strength comparisons.
*His own transformation makes him much, MUCH stronger than kaio-ken x20 Goku, who is at least twice as strong as the Goku that he said could defeat Freeza. So his fifth form is several times stronger than his base form, which is on par with or stronger than Freeza's final form (70% or 100%, I'd lean towards the latter) per Cooler's statements, the video games (the character reference in BT3 flat-out states this), and Cooler's confidence in going up against Freeza's killer in that form.

So yeah. I don't really see how you could logically make Cooler lower than 200 million. The Goku that Cooler fought in his base form HAD to have been somewhere between 90 and 120 million (at the very least) to best Freeza at either 70% (84 million) or 100% (120 million) power like Cooler said. Kaio-ken x20 Goku would have to be AT LEAST double that, so 180-240 million. And final form Cooler is waaaaaaaaaaay beyond that- way more than the 25% gap Goku had on Freeza. He just has to be a good bit weaker than 450 to 600 million (once again, these are generous estimates, since I'm allowing the possibility that Cooler didn't consider that Freeza used 100% AND assuming that Cooler thinks that Goku won through skill or something rather than just being stronger than Freeza like the dialogue implied), which is the low-ball estimate of Goku's Super Saiyan form in that movie.

So 125 million or 140 million absolutely do not work.