Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Ryuman wrote:Yeah. Btw, thought I'd reply to your Tweet there
Yeah, that was me. Figured I may as well dust off my twitter again and actually use it for something instead of letting it just...exist.
I know the feeling. Also, the talk those other people are having on Twitter is sadly hilarious. 'Maybe they already have it and are waiting for Toei to announce it'
dbzfan7 wrote:I always thought it was possible for Vegeta or Goku to go above Gohan, but it would take a shit load of time (before the God form was introduced). I still don't understand how Vegeta gets a random rage boost (which was a Gohan only trait and Vegeta never had before) and magically multiplies his strength more than SSJ3 Goku. I thought the whole Kid Boo ending was Vegeta accepting Goku was #1 as he could never surpass him and accepted Goku as a friend. Then we have this random statement which can't make sense as Goku's God form was not enough to beat Bils (but he was close to him I hear) so he realistically could catch up to Bils eventually. For Vegeta its literally impossible for him to catch up to Bils without a god form as the god form transcends Vegetto's multiplier. No way with SSJ2 or 3 could he catch up. I have Goku and Gohan tied as my favourite characters and can admit when there surpassed when it makes sense. This just seems completely random.
Yeah I know what you mean and this is coming from a Vegeta fan. It does seem a bit random and ludicrous that Vegeta all of the sudden got so damn powerful but I guess we'll have to wait and see what sparked such a power up out of him. I guess a pure heart just gave Vegeta a f*** ton of power.
If Vegeta got SSJG I would totally accept his superiority without question, but giving him a Gohan rage boost makes no sense at all as he never showed this before. How come slapping Bulma gives him this, but during the Super Boo and Kid Boo fight the thought of Majin Boo killing his entire family doesn't. If the pure heart thing were true(I know your joking) then everyone including Yamcha would be powerful okay not Yamcha that's being way to generous.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:I always thought it was possible for Vegeta or Goku to go above Gohan, but it would take a shit load of time (before the God form was introduced). I still don't understand how Vegeta gets a random rage boost (which was a Gohan only trait and Vegeta never had before) and magically multiplies his strength more than SSJ3 Goku. I thought the whole Kid Boo ending was Vegeta accepting Goku was #1 as he could never surpass him and accepted Goku as a friend. Then we have this random statement which can't make sense as Goku's God form was not enough to beat Bils (but he was close to him I hear) so he realistically could catch up to Bils eventually. For Vegeta its literally impossible for him to catch up to Bils without a god form as the god form transcends Vegetto's multiplier. No way with SSJ2 or 3 could he catch up. I have Goku and Gohan tied as my favourite characters and can admit when there surpassed when it makes sense. This just seems completely random.
Yeah I know what you mean and this is coming from a Vegeta fan. It does seem a bit random and ludicrous that Vegeta all of the sudden got so damn powerful but I guess we'll have to wait and see what sparked such a power up out of him. I guess a pure heart just gave Vegeta a f*** ton of power.
If Vegeta got SSJG I would totally accept his superiority without question, but giving him a Gohan rage boost makes no sense at all as he never showed this before. How come slapping Bulma gives him this, but during the Super Boo and Kid Boo fight the thought of Majin Boo killing his entire family doesn't. If the pure heart thing were true(I know your joking) then everyone including Yamcha would be powerful okay not Yamcha that's being way to generous.
Maybe Vegeta's true power was emotion locked this whole time, who knows.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
I can definitely buy Vegeta's hidden power being emotion-locked. He's not exactly the type to let all his emotions out on display (what with his pride).
As to how well he could do unlocking that power permanently is up to him.
Also, I think it's a nice balance. Vegeta has something ridiculous happen to him - being forced to entertain Birusu, and Vegeta has something awesome happen to him - discovering he's got the hidden power to potentially surpass Goku after all.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Maybe Vegeta's true power was emotion locked this whole time, who knows.
The thing is that sounds like a bad fanfiction idea. If it was hinted in the series that would make sense, but its not. I'm not saying its bad to get really strong, but its only bad if its poorly explained. Its like a fanboy wrote that because they wanted Vegeta to have some significance besides a power up. I would have liked him and Goku to have gone God form and tag teamed Bils.
I thought half Saiyans only have hidden potential as stated since the beginning of Z. The only full blood thing I have seen is when they can survive their body being destroyed when going temporarily beyond their limit.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Oh I think quite necessarily. The fact that he said Goku and Vegeta may pose a considerable threat in the near future tells me both Vegeta and Goku are a lot stronger than Gohan.
He sees Goku & Vegeta having potential to cause them trouble in the future. If Bills had said that Goten & Trunks could pose a considerable thread in the future, would that make them stronger than Goku, Vegeta, or Gohan? No, they just have the potential to surpass them later. Maybe he figured that Gohan doesn't have the will to get stronger & stronger, while Goku & Vegeta never give up on trying to get stronger.
As for Vegeta's power being emotionally locked because he was selfish before (with his pride and stuff), I'll have it in my head canon, until we get official confirmation (if ever).
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Maybe Vegeta's true power was emotion locked this whole time, who knows.
The thing is that sounds like a bad fanfiction idea. If it was hinted in the series that would make sense, but its not. I'm not saying its bad to get really strong, but its only bad if its poorly explained. Its like a fanboy wrote that because they wanted Vegeta to have some significance besides a power up. I would have liked him and Goku to have gone God form and tag teamed Bils.
That would have been pretty cool but oh well. Maybe in the sequel, if we ever get one. Meh I wouldn't call emotion locked bad fan fiction but a better explanation would be nice. You got any ideas?
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Oh I think quite necessarily. The fact that he said Goku and Vegeta may pose a considerable threat in the near future tells me both Vegeta and Goku are a lot stronger than Gohan.
He sees Goku & Vegeta having potential to cause them trouble in the future. If Bills had said that Goten & Trunks could pose a considerable thread in the future, would that make them stronger than Goku, Vegeta, or Gohan? No, they just have the potential to surpass them later. Maybe he figured that Gohan doesn't have the will to get stronger & stronger, while Goku & Vegeta never give up on trying to get stronger.
As for Vegeta's power being emotionally locked because he was selfish before (with his pride and stuff), I'll have it in my head canon, until we get official confirmation (if ever).
Umm yeah I would say Goten and Trunks are stronger than the ladder if someone who beat Goku's God from said they would pose a considerable threat in the near future... they never did though so they aren't. Either way, if they have the potential to surpass them in the near future, they will be stronger, if they already aren't, so they are stronger generally speaking.
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Maybe Vegeta's true power was emotion locked this whole time, who knows.
The thing is that sounds like a bad fanfiction idea. If it was hinted in the series that would make sense, but its not. I'm not saying its bad to get really strong, but its only bad if its poorly explained. Its like a fanboy wrote that because they wanted Vegeta to have some significance besides a power up. I would have liked him and Goku to have gone God form and tag teamed Bils.
That would have been pretty cool but oh well. Maybe in the sequel, if we ever get one. Meh I wouldn't call emotion locked bad fan fiction but a better explanation would be nice. You got any ideas?
Not really as the idea is just ridiculous. My idea would be to write that out entirely, or change it to Vegeta being the most persistent, or durable as that has been shown in his fights all the time. He would keep getting up and fighting on even when Bils thinks he is done and surprising Bils. That would make more sense for Vegeta. Vegeta then could be like the leader and encourage Gohan and the others to get up and fight.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:Not really as the idea is just ridiculous. My idea would be to write that out entirely, or change it to Vegeta being the most persistent, or durable as that has been shown in his fights all the time. He would keep getting up and fighting on even when Bils thinks he is done and surprising Bils. That would make more sense for Vegeta. Vegeta then could be like the leader and encourage Gohan and the others to get up and fight.
The thing is though, Birusu said they will pose a threat in the near future. Vegeta will be stronger, if he isn't already.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
dbzfan7 wrote:Not really as the idea is just ridiculous. My idea would be to write that out entirely, or change it to Vegeta being the most persistent, or durable as that has been shown in his fights all the time. He would keep getting up and fighting on even when Bils thinks he is done and surprising Bils. That would make more sense for Vegeta. Vegeta then could be like the leader and encourage Gohan and the others to get up and fight.
The thing is though, Birusu said they will pose a threat in the near future. Vegeta will be stronger, if he isn't already.
If he gets a god form, then that is believable. Maybe Bils believed he would eventually get a god form. If you believe in the Goku X Vegeta or the Perhaps greater then SSJ4 terms that Vegetto has in the SEG and anime comic guide, then its clear that Vegeta needs a god form to compete.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:Not really as the idea is just ridiculous. My idea would be to write that out entirely, or change it to Vegeta being the most persistent, or durable as that has been shown in his fights all the time. He would keep getting up and fighting on even when Bils thinks he is done and surprising Bils. That would make more sense for Vegeta. Vegeta then could be like the leader and encourage Gohan and the others to get up and fight.
The thing is though, Birusu said they will pose a threat in the near future. Vegeta will be stronger, if he isn't already.
If he gets a god form, then that is believable. Maybe Bils believed he would eventually get a god form. If you believe in the Goku X Vegeta or the Perhaps greater then SSJ4 terms that Vegetto has in the SEG and anime comic guide, then its clear that Vegeta needs a god form to compete.
That is unless Vegeta has a f*** ton of hidden power for whatever reason. I don't see Vegeta getting a God form any time soon and I don't really see Birusu seeing that either. If Vegeta does get one, cool .
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
TheMightyOzaru wrote:That is unless Vegeta has a f*** ton of hidden power for whatever reason. I don't see Vegeta getting a God form any time soon and I don't really see Birusu seeing that either. If Vegeta does get one, cool .
Why not. If you just need 6 pure hearted saiyans then he could just get it the same way as Goku. He could get it anytime before or after Pan is born, or at least when she would know what she is doing if she can't do it as a fetus or baby.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:That is unless Vegeta has a f*** ton of hidden power for whatever reason. I don't see Vegeta getting a God form any time soon and I don't really see Birusu seeing that either. If Vegeta does get one, cool .
Why not. If you just need 6 pure hearted saiyans then he could just get it the same way as Goku. He could get it anytime before or after Pan is born, or at least when she would know what she is doing if she can't do it as a fetus or baby.
I hope he does get a God form. I still think he currently surpassed Gohan by a good margin but still, I would like to see a SSJ God Vegeta.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
TheMightyOzaru wrote:That is unless Vegeta has a f*** ton of hidden power for whatever reason. I don't see Vegeta getting a God form any time soon and I don't really see Birusu seeing that either. If Vegeta does get one, cool .
Why not. If you just need 6 pure hearted saiyans then he could just get it the same way as Goku. He could get it anytime before or after Pan is born, or at least when she would know what she is doing if she can't do it as a fetus or baby.
I hope he does get a God form. I still think he currently surpassed Gohan by a good margin but still, I would like to see a SSJ God Vegeta.
I think that's impossible for him in this movies time frame. In the EOZ I still think he hasn't, but don't completely rule it out. I'd say by Gt's time frame of 5-10 years after Z (Japanese/English frame) He would be around Gohan without SSJ3 and stronger if he has it. But that's my opinion.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:Why not. If you just need 6 pure hearted saiyans then he could just get it the same way as Goku. He could get it anytime before or after Pan is born, or at least when she would know what she is doing if she can't do it as a fetus or baby.
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