BoG Strength Run-Down

[Herms]

So, I wanted to make a thread to just compile all the strength-related stuff in BoG. I tried a format different than the Strength Checker, where I just summed up what's said (can't really do word-for-word yet, obviously), and added commentary in brackets. This is more of a first draft for now.

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Beers
Kaio calls him the greatest God of Destruction in this world [Does "this world" refer only to the Seventh Universe? Or is he stronger than the other Gods of Destruction? If Kaio's only talking about the 7th Universe, then it's kind of a weak compliment, since Beers seems to be the only God of Destruction there]. Kaio also says his power is in a league of its own [literally a different dimension], and that it would be a bad idea for Goku to fight him. Events bear this out, as Beers defeats Super Saiyan 3 Goku in basically 2 blows.

Beers planned on defeating Freeza himself, and is very surprised to learn somebody else could beat Freeza, so [Whis aside] he's apparently unaware of anyone in the universe being even remotely as powerful as him. Whis likewise says it's hard to think of anyone being a "formidable foe" for Beers [presumably excluding himself].

Besides beating Super Saiyan 3 Goku, Beers also easily takes down Ultimate Gohan, Super Saiyan Gotenks, Vegeta, Mister Boo, and No.18.

When Beers fights Super Saiyan God Goku, at first the two seem evenly matched, but Beers reveals that he still isn't fighting anywhere near his full power [meaning he hadn't even been going all-out when easily beating everyone earlier?], while Goku had been fighting at 80% full power. Fighting more seriously, he gives SSG Goku a harder and harder time, forcing Goku to fight all-out. After Goku reverts to being a regular Super Saiyan again, he still manages to keep on fighting Beers due to having absorbed that power into his body and thereby not significantly powering down. It takes all of Goku's power to knock back Beers' huge energy ball attack, and Goku surrenders afterward. After the fight, Beers' attack only manages to destroy a small rock rather than the entire Earth; he says he's used up all his stamina. Whis later says Beer was only putting forth about 70% of his power in this fight [so was he lying about the stamina thing earlier? Or did he use up all his stamina even without fighting at full power?]. Beers' speed in particular seems to give Goku a lot of trouble during the fight.

Beers describes himself as having a long history of fighting [this and his obsession throughout the movie with finding his prophesied "formidable foe" suggest he really likes fighting for its own sake, very much like Goku], and says Goku is the second strongest person he's ever fought. His martial arts master is Whis [implying Whis is stronger than him and the strongest person he ever fought, but this is never explicitly stated]. Beers thinks there might be even more incredible people out in the other universes [implying he has no firsthand experience with the other universes]. He tells Whis that Goku was not quite a truly "formidable" foe, but that Goku and Vegeta might one day reach that point.

Beers can destroy planets; it's basically his job to do so. Kaioshin wonders how many planets will fall victim to him this time, and much of the movie revolves around keeping him from destroying Earth. Whis warns the Z Warriors that if anything gets on Beers' nerves, then the solar system will be destroyed in no time flat [the phrase here, attoiu ma ni, isn't really too literal, so this doesn't necessarily mean he can destroy the solar system in one big blast or anything like that]. One of the previews for the movie had Piccolo saying that the entire galaxy would be wiped out if Beers wasn't stopped, but this line doesn't appear to be in the finished movie.

As a god, Beers' ki cannot be understood by Goku, and therefore Goku cannot sense his approach [similar to with the androids]. Kaio however can tell when Beers is on his way, though he seems to show up a little faster than Kaio expected. Like with Goku, nobody on Earth senses Beers' approach either. Vegeta (already warned by Kaio about Beers) can tell by seeing Beers face-to-face that Beers is too dangerous for them to handle, though during the later fight he's still surprised at just how powerful Beers is. Before Beers starts fighting though, nobody else seems to notice how strong he is, or otherwise sense anything unusual about him.

One of the previews for the movie in Jump described Beers as "the strongest character in the history of Z" [again, presumably excluding Whis at least. At the bare minimum he's obviously much stronger than Ultimate Gohan, beating him easier than even Gotenks-Boo did. Nothing in the movie really limits the degree to which Beers and SSG Goku are stronger than the other characters, so there's nothing contradicting the idea of Beers being stronger than Vegetto. Upon becoming SSG, Goku says he never knew there was a "realm" like this, which could be taken to mean the form is stronger than Vegetto, and by extension Beers is likewise stronger still]. Nobody in the movie so much as suggests that Goku/Vegeta/Gohan use Fusion to fight Beers [maybe meaning they know it wouldn't be enough to win?]

As you'd expect, Beers in unfazed by a bullet to the head.

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Boo
Beers doesn't seem to recognize him at all [odd in that Beers knows Kaioshin, and presumably would know about all the other Kaioshins getting taken down Boo. Maybe he's only heard of him, but never seen him and doesn't know what he looks like? Or maybe he doesn't recognize Boo in his fat form]. Boo tries to turn Beers to candy, but Beers beats him with just a kiai.

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Freeza
Beers is very surprised to learn that someone other than him defeated Freeza, let alone that said person was a Saiyan [it's understandable he doesn't know about the new generation of Super Saiyans, Cell, the androids, or any of the other guys who have popped up while he slept, presumably he doesn't expect Kaioshin to take care of Freeza due to his neutral standpoint, and even if he does know about Boo he'd have no way of knowing he'd been resurrected. Apparently though he doesn't know about Dabra, or didn't expect him to ever fight Freeza.] Beers is matter of fact about his own ability to destroy Freeza [unsurprising in light of how he can knock around Boo-era characters with ease].

When he meets Goku, Beers says it doesn't seem like Goku could defeat Freeza as he is now, but apparently he can by becoming Super Saiyan, implying that regular Goku is still weaker than Freeza [Still, Goku is just standing around at this point and not fighting or anything, so Beers might not have an accurate measure of his true power].

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Gotenks
Beers commends his fighting sense, but is otherwise unimpressed with him. He fights Beers as a Super Saiyan, but gets literally spanked [it's not clear why he never becomes a Super Saiyan 3, but since Beers has no trouble beating Ultimate Gohan, it presumably wouldn't have made a difference]. After hearing how Beers beat SSj3 Goku in two blows, Vegeta assumes Gotenks and everyone else on Earth can't beat Beers, and the eventual fight bears this out. So apparently by now the relationship between Goku and Gotenks is either that SSj3 Goku is stronger, or Gotenks is not stronger than Goku by enough of a margin to defeat someone strong enough to beat Goku in two blows.]

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Kuririn
He can't even see SSG Goku and Beers' fight.

His character bio on the movie's website describes him as the "strongest Earthling".

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Pan
Far along in development now to have at least some energy, and count as "pure-hearted".

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Piccolo
No match for Beers, of course. Apparently unable to sense Beers' special divine ki [interesting in light of that fact that Kaio could. Is "God of Earth" not high enough on the totem poll to get this ability, or does Piccolo not have the ability because he's no longer God of Earth?]. He furthermore doesn't seem to even recognize anything unusual about Beers or Whis [compare this to his reaction to Kaioshin]. During the initial failed attempt at making Goku into Super Saiyan God, while everyone else is really impressed by Goku's power, Piccolo is able to spot right away that Goku has merely gathered up everyone else's energy rather than properly become Super Saiyan God, and that there's no point in him fighting Beers like that [so maybe as former God of Earth he's got some special knowledge about these matters after all].

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Son Gohan
Shown fighting Beers in his "Ultimate" form [previews showed him doing this as a Super Saiyan, but this was changed for the final film. The official word on this is that scriptwriter Watanabe always intended Gohan to be in his Ultimate state in the film, though it seems a little fishy]. However, he becomes a Super Saiyan when contributing his energy to Goku during the Super Saiyan God ritual [so...apparently he still has the ability to become Super Saiyan, but in an actual serious fight he relies on his Ultimate form. Probably meaning his Ultimate form is still much stronger than his Super Saiyan one, like in the Boo arc. Maybe he uses Super Saiyan for the SSG ritual because SSG requires Saiyan power, rather than his god-given Ultimate power?]

Whatever the deal is with his Ultimate form in relation to his Super Saiyan form, in his Ultimate state he's shown getting effortlessly beaten by Beers. Kaio knew in advance that he and everyone else on Earth would be no match for Beers. When Vegeta hears that Beers beat Super Saiyan 3 Goku with just two blows, Vegeta likewise assumes that none of the gang on Earth can stand up to Beers, and events bear this out [implying that SSj3 Goku is stronger than Gohan and Gotenks by this point? Or maybe Gohan/Gotenks are still stronger, but not strong enough to beat SSj3 Goku in two blows, so Vegeta knows they're no match for anyone strong enough to defeat Goku so easily]. Nobody considers having Gohan be the one to become Super Saiyan God.

Gohan's character bio on the movie website describes him as having “power surpassing even that of a pure Saiyan” [this can't be including Super Saiyan God if nothing else. Interesting that at the end of the movie Beers mentions Goku as having immeasurable latent power and that Goku and Vegeta might one day become formidable foes for him, but he doesn't say anything about Gohan. Apparently he failed to leave an impression.]

Bullets are useless against Gohan, unsurprisingly.

---
Son Goku
Has gone over to Kaio's for a bit of training [interesting in light of how much of the debate over the degree to which Goku gets stronger during the 10 years between the battle with Boo and the end of the series relies on the assumption that he does all his training on Earth. With teleportation, I guess there's no reason he can't just pop off to the afterlife for special training whenever he wants].

Beers is impressed that anyone, let alone a Saiyan, could have defeated Freeza. He says it doesn't look like Goku could defeat Freeza as he is now [ie in his regular state] but that he powers up by becoming a Super Saiyan [so the big thing here is the idea that even now, Goku in his regular form hasn't surpassed Freeza. Of course, Goku is just stranding around at this point and not fighting, so maybe Beers doesn't have a good grasp on his full power]. Beers is impressed by Goku's Super Saiyan 3 form, saying that Goku wasn't just blowing smoke after all. Still, as Kaio feared Goku is absolutely no match for Beers, who defeats him in just two blows. During their fight, SSj3 Goku punches a big hole straight through Kaio's planet [and as has been quickly pointed out by the sort of people who point this sort of stuff out, since Kaio's planet has x10 the gravity of Earth, it is presumably x10 as dense too, meaning that...I don't know, Goku can punch through really dense stuff, I guess.]

Hearing that Beers defeated Goku in two blows, Vegeta assumes that nobody on Earth can defeat Beers [implying that by this point Gohan is weaker than Goku, or at least unable to defeat anyone capable of beating Goku in two blows].

Though beat up badly by Beers, Goku is back in action before too long, apparently without aid of Senzu or any other fancy healing.

After losing to Beers the first time, Goku trains by firing a Kamehameha at himself and blocking it [similar to what he did while training in his spaceship on the way to Namek]. He tells Kaio it doesn't look like he'll be able to become Super Saiyan God just by training.

To nobody's surprise, Goku is the Super Saiyan God that Beers had dreamed of fighting, and the "formidable foe" which the Oracle Fish had prophesied would confront Beers. Vegeta asks why Goku gets to be the one who everyone donates their energy to and become Super Saiyan God. Bulma tells him to shut up and cooperate, but we never do get a reason [the question is, if SSG is made by 5 Saiyans contributing their energy to a 6th, does it matter which of the 6 Saiyans receives the energy? You'd think that if everyone is pooling their energy together, the power of the resulting SSG might not really depend on who is used as the "base". On the other hand, Piccolo makes clear that SSG is different than just gathering up everyone's energy, and it seems a little absurd to say that, for instance, SSG fetus!Pan would be as powerful as SSG Goku. So everyone picking Goku to become SSG could mean he's stronger than Gohan these days, or maybe just that he's got better fighting experience and could handle the power better.]

During the first attempt at creating Super Saiyan God, Goku absorbs energy from Gohan, Goten, Vegeta, and Trunks. This greatly increases his power, but Piccolo realizes that this isn't really Super Saiyan God, and says Goku can't win like that, since he's done nothing more than gather up everyone else's energy [this failed attempt at SSG seems pretty similar to what goes on at the end of DBZ movie 8, and also to how Super Saiyan 4 Goku surpasses his limits fighting Yi Xing Long in GT].

After properly becoming Super Saiyan God, Kuririn cannot even tell how powerful Goku is [implying that Goku now has special divine ki like Beers, which regular folks cannot sense]. After becoming Super Saiyan God and fighting Beers a bit, Goku says he never knew there was a "realm" like this [the word here, sekai, means "world" or "realm" and is presumably being used metaphorically to mean a general level of power. For instance, during the Cell arc Trunks tells Kuririn about how Vegeta got super strong training in the RoSaT, but one day Trunks surpassed that "realm" by reaching the form we now call Super Saiyan Grade III. In the film, "realm" pops up again later when Beers says Goku has absorbed SSG's "realm" into his body, but more on that later. Goku's surprise at the "realm" of SSG could be taken to mean it's stronger than Vegetto (and any other form Goku's ever reached before), but maybe he's surprised that he got this strong without using a form of fusion. This is also the same movie where Mister Satan has to be told again about how Dende is God of Earth, so arguably Goku going "wow, never knew I could get this strong" isn't too conclusive].

As a Super Saiyan God, Goku seems to fight evenly with Beers for a while, but Beers is really not using anywhere near his full power, while Goku is using about 80% (Beers is still mad that Goku has been holding out on him). When Beers starts fighting more seriously, he gives SSG Goku a hard time.

Goku's Super Saiyan God form runs out midway through the fight, and he returns to his base form. He doesn't notice, and continues to hang on against Beers, soon becoming a Super Saiyan and putting up a decent fight, though he ends up struggling to deflect Beers' huge energy ball. Beers says that because Goku absorbed "that realm" into his body, he has not powered down significantly even after returning to normal [OK, so whatever the hell that's supposed to mean, it seems that after reaching Super Saiyan God and then returning to normal, Goku's power even in his old forms has increased by a gigantic degree. He can fight Beers as a regular Super Saiyan, though there's still a significant gap in their powers, and he even seems to do better in his base form than he did before as a Super Saiyan 3. This almost seems like some form of Elder Kaioshin's power-up. The question then is, can he still become Super Saiyan 2 and 3? If so, shouldn't that make him stronger than Beers, if he's already doing so well as a regular Super Saiyan? And if he can't become SSj2/3 now, why not? Maybe becoming SSG has permanently altered Goku's relationship with his other Super Saiyan forms.]

Despite Beers saying Goku has "returned to normal" [a misleading term any way you cut it, since as noted above, Goku is obviously not the same as before even after losing his Super Saiyan God form], Goku does manage to briefly become Super Saiyan God once again, allowing him to deflect Beers' huge energy ball. How he does this is unclear, but it seems to be triggered by his friends and family's encouragement. [So, can he become SSG now whenever he gets the proper inspiration? I guess if he really did "absorb" that realm into his body, it might just be in there for him to fully tap into whenever necessary, without having to go through the whole 6-person ritual again.]

Kei said that SSG Goku can absorb energy, and that this is what allowed him to deflect Beers' energy ball [apparently this isn't stated in dialogue, and I haven't seen any mention of this from other Japanese sources, so it might be something that's open to interpretation]

Whis is impressed enough by Goku to offer him the position of next God of Destruction, after Beers dies. However, according to Whis, Beers only put forth about 70% of his power while fighting Goku. Beers tells Whis he doesn't really think Goku lived up to the "formidable foe" hype from the Oracle Fish, but that he has immeasurable latent power and may one day become a formidable foe for real.

At the end of the movie, Vegeta tells Goku that he (Vegeta) will be the one who gets to be Super Saiyan God next time, and Goku had better cooperate [meaning that Goku still has to undergo the ritual to reach that form again, but Vegeta doesn't want him hogging it all the time? Or does Goku not need the ritual again, and Vegeta just want to ensure Goku will help him reach the form himself?]

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Son Goten
His character bio on the movie website describes him as a "thoroughbred hiding surprising talent".

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Super Saiyan God (in general)
A form accidentally created long ago by Planet Vegeta's few righteous Saiyans, in order to oppose the evil Saiyans whose power and numbers were overwhelmingly superior. To create the form, 5 pure-hearted Saiyans muse infuse their "light" into another pure-heated Saiyan, so a total of 6 pure-hearted Saiyans are required. The form has a time limit. The previous Super Saiyan God ran out of power before [he?] could defeat all of the evil Saiyans, and so Planet Vegeta became a planet of evil Saiyans once again. Defeated, the righteous Saiyans were erased from history and Super Saiyan God was erased from legend [meaning the current Super Saiyan legends have nothing to do with the form?]

Apparently, in the movie the previous Super Saiyan God is depicted as an adult Saiyan with a tail, while the evil Saiyans are depicted as Oozaru [kind of echoing GT, interestingly enough. So, was this previous SSG as strong as SSG Goku is in the movie? It's not certain, and if so it seems a little odd that this SSG couldn't defeat the evil Saiyans, time limit or no time limit. Still, we really don't know enough about how SSG works to say for sure. It is interesting through that apparently the Oracle Fish didn't say anything about this previous SSG at the time, only Goku, and Beers likewise doesn't seem to have had a prophetic dream about this SSG either. Then again, we don't know when this previous SSG appeared, or how long Beers has been the God of Destruction.]

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Trunks
Nobody is concerned when Pilaf and co. hold Trunks at gunpoint, so (unsurprisingly) he must be strong enough to be impervious to bullets.

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Vegeta
He still continues to train, and is doing so even during Bulma's party [apparently he's using the old gravity chamber]. He's met Beers before as a kid, but doesn't really care when he learns Beers is on his way to Earth. He only panics when Kaio tells him how Beers beat SSj3 Goku in two blows, so apparently he's still weaker than Goku at this point.

However, when Beers slaps Bulma, Vegeta goes berserk and knocks Beers around a bit. Kame-sennin says it looks like Vegeta has surpassed Goku, but ultimately none of Vegeta's attacks hurt Beers at all [the whole thing seems pretty similar to Gohan's famous "rage boosts", particularly the one against 2nd form Freeza where Gohan snaps and knocks Freeza around more than anyone else had up to that point, but Freeza suffers no real damage]. At the end of the film, Goku tells Vegeta he became an "incredible" Super Saiyan when Bulma was slapped, and says the next time they're fighting a strong foe they should get the foe to slap Bulma [implying Vegeta's power-up was only temporary, again very much like Gohan's classic schtick. I guess it's possible Vegeta retains some of the power he displayed during his rage, but not all of it, so that he still needs another slap to Bulma to get the full effect. Nothing in the movie really suggests this though.]

Vegeta wants to know why Goku gets to be the one that receives everyone else's energy and become Super Saiyan God [we're never really given a reason for this]. At the end of the film, he says next time he'll be the one who gets to become Super Saiyan God, and Goku had better cooperate then.

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Videl
Unlike everyone else, she's not impervious to guns, and is wounded by one of Pilaf and co.'s bullets, but Dende heals her. Toriyama's poster featured in the movie's magazine shows her in a fighting pose, but nothing in the movie itself even hints at her martial arts background.

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Whis
Ultimately Beers says Goku is the second strongest person he's ever fought, then reveals that Whis is not only his attendant but also his martial arts master. Goku says this must mean the strongest in the universe is actually...[in context he obviously means Whis, but he just trails off without actually saying it. Whis is also presumably the only person stronger than Goku that Beers has ever fought, but this is never explicitly stated either.

At the end of the film, Beers has an extreme reaction to some wasabi he eats, and Whis quiets him down with one karate chop.

Beers thinks that there might be even more incredible people out in the other universes ["more incredible" than Whis, Beers himself, and Goku, presumably]

Despite being Beers' martial arts master, Whis has no apparent interest in fighting, and sneaks off to eat some sushi while Beers is battling Gohan and the gang [I suppose that once you're that much stronger than everybody else, fighting would be pretty dull]

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Wow Jake (I can call you by your name right? ), thanks a lot. That was a fantastic read. I bet that took some effort to do.

[Bussani]

since Kaio's planet has x10 the gravity of Earth, it is presumably x10 as dense too, meaning that...I don't know, Goku can punch through really dense stuff, I guess.

Interestingly, it isn't quite that straightforward. If Kaio's planet was the same size as Earth and had ten times the gravity, then that would mean it should be ten times denser as well--but Kaio's planet is much smaller, and reducing the size increases surface gravity (in the same way that getting closer to, say, the Sun, makes its gravitational effect on you increase). So in actuality, assuming Kaio's planet has a diameter of about 40 meters or so, it should be around 3.1 million times denser than the Earth. Of course, that's nearly a million times denser than uranium! Might be better to just assume it has high gravity because of magical laws of afterlife physics.

Anyway, interesting read, Herms. I hadn't considered how some of their comments might hint at how Gohan and Gotenks compare to Goku.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

So if real life science is used, Goku's got some punch.

[InfernalVegito]

That was very interesting and a great synopsis.

I do wonder, though, why they always make these power related statements so vague. Is it intentional to keep it interesting and debatable or because they themselves do not know what they do?

Either way, great read.

[ドラゴ]

Interesting write-up.

What would you have Beers battle power scaled at in relation to your Official Power Level Guide? I know it's a big shot in the dark right now, since his deity is not easily understood or "felt" as a ki itself.

[MDSTSSJ]

Very interesting Herms!!

[Silkman3003]

I'm just curious, but during the fight between Goku and Birusu, do they display any out of the ordinary feats? Or rather, better feats of power in comparison to Z? Or was the fight what I should expect from any DBZ fight in terms of battle,destruction, high pacing, etc?

And on a slightly unrelated note: Was there any explanation as to how Goku could breath in space?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

This is awesome, thanks Herms!

[Zephyr]

I think it's possible that after SSj God runs out, Goku's base and SSj forms were boosted due to having previously received energy from the other Saiyans twice now. Maybe he stored the ki he gathered from everyone while he was in SSj God form, and started tapping into that after SSj God ran out of time?

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

I was just searching on the Internet to see what other people are saying about BOG, and I came across people saying Whis is MFTL because he travelled to Kaios planet and Earth amazingly fast. Is this actually true?

[DannyDBZfanforever]

Goku in his regular form hasn't surpassed Freeza

So, base Saiyans (buu saga) <120 Millions? We take into account that the characters in the z gang were much stronger between the end of the Buu saga and the beginning of the movie.

[Thanos]

Sorry but, I just can't accept that Goku is still weaker than Freeza in his base form. I think it would be foolish to not accept that his relaxed state is the reason for Birus coming to this conclusion. It would undermine all the years of training and improvement Goku has gone through since beating Freeza. Yeah, no.

[Amuro Ray]

It's not about what "you can accept" (there seems to be a lot of that) but in the special "Son Goku and Friends" Goku had to power up to SSJ to oneshot Avocado - who was said to be as powerful as Frieza

[VyeRo]

I guess it's possible Vegeta retains some of the power he displayed during his rage, but not all of it, so that he still needs another slap to Bulma to get the full effect. Nothing in the movie really suggests this though.

This made me LOL for some reason. Why don't they just kill Bulma while they're at it, then Vegeta's resulting power up would even go beyond SSJG.

But really nice work! I enjoyed reading it.
I hope this means that Vegeta has some hidden potential, while he may never catch up to Goku it's still nice to have him recognized for his power.

What did the movie site have to say about Trunks' power?

[Kamiccolo9]

It's not about what "you can accept" (there seems to be a lot of that) but in the special "Son Goku and Friends" Goku had to power up to SSJ to oneshot Avocado - who was said to be as powerful as Freeza

No, Aba and Kado were said to be as powerful as Freeza. Their fusion would presumably be stronger.

[dbzfan7]

Great read Herms. I consider Goku/Vegeta statement as "no one can knock Goku out in 2 hits so easily unless their outrageously strong". Goku and Vegeta have always been resilient fighters when they're getting smacked around by people much stronger. I do consider Vegetas moment as P.I.S. as it really has no logic behind it or just a gag.

Also Abo and Cado are only around first form Freeza as Tarble never could have known about Freeza's other forms. Vegeta didn't even know about them at first.

I feel Goku could have powered up his base to higher then Freeza, but I ain't gonna stick with that theory as the face value of the line seems clear.

[Kamiccolo9]

Also Abo and Cado are only around first form Freeza as Tarble never could have known about Freeza's other forms. Vegeta didn't even know about them at first.

True, but their fusion was capable of beating up SSJ Goten and Trunks, and managed to survive against Gotenks, so I think it's safe to say he's stronger than Freeza.

Anyway, like everyone else has said, nice job Herms!

[dbzfan7]

Also Abo and Cado are only around first form Freeza as Tarble never could have known about Freeza's other forms. Vegeta didn't even know about them at first.

True, but their fusion was capable of beating up SSJ Goten and Trunks, and managed to survive against Gotenks, so I think it's safe to say he's stronger than Freeza.

Anyway, like everyone else has said, nice job Herms!

I never said Aka wasn't much stronger then Freeza(Aka definitely is). The technique they used could be exactly like fusion. Also Gotenks was never really trying to kill Aka.

[Kamiccolo9]

Also Abo and Cado are only around first form Freeza as Tarble never could have known about Freeza's other forms. Vegeta didn't even know about them at first.

True, but their fusion was capable of beating up SSJ Goten and Trunks, and managed to survive against Gotenks, so I think it's safe to say he's stronger than Freeza.

Anyway, like everyone else has said, nice job Herms!

I never said Aka wasn't much stronger then Freeza(Aka definitely is). The technique they used could be exactly like fusion. Also Gotenks was never really trying to kill Aka.

Oh, my mistake. Sorry about that.