Character derailment

[Insertclevername]

I think it is character derailment for Yamucha to suddenly be a cheater. We didn't have mention of it in the manga up until that point. That isn't to say it's not canon, or it didn't happen. It DID happen, but it made some of us go "WTF?" and scratch our heads.

Maybe he wanted to escape his harsh reality of a relationship with Bulma.

Oh, the cruel fate of being married to a highly attractive billionaire women your age while living in her big ol' house.

[SilverArmada]

Oh, the cruel fate of being married to a highly attractive billionaire women your age while living in her big ol' house.

Yeah, Vegeta's an idiot, he didn't see what a terrible idea this was.

[Nikkolas]

Goku obviously.

Kid Goku was a treat.
Adult Goku is just unbearable.

One Goku avenges his murdered friends without hesitation.
The other lets the murderer leave because he wants to fight him again.

[The Monkey King]

Goku obviously.

Kid Goku was a treat.
Adult Goku is just unbearable.

One Goku avenges his murdered friends without hesitation.
The other lets the murderer leave because he wants to fight him again.

Yeah...problem with that is:
1. Vegeta never killed anyone on Earth.
2. Goku wanted to kill Frieza after he killed Krillin but would've let him live but only so he could live in sadness and depression until he died, not to fight him again.

[ABED]

It amazes me that people come to Vegeta's defense. He was a murderer. We know and we saw. He may not have killed any Earthlings, but that's like saying Charles Manson didn't murder anyone. Technically true, but utterly meaningless since he was directly responsible for the people who were killed. Vegeta was going to kill people, and Nappa was his underling. The only reason he didn't kill anyone directly is because he was stopped before he could. Attempted murder is just as good as murder in this context.

As to the topic at hand, Tenshinhan. He was so promising as a character but it ultimately lead to nowhere.

[RandomGuy96]

I imagine him crashing his spaceship into that city killed a ton of people. Besides that, the only people on Earth that he killed were his own henchmen, but he did order those henchmen to kill all of Goku's friends, so it's his fault.

On Freeza: yeah, go let him live in sadness and depression. It's not like he can get stronger or just nuke the planet from orbit or anything. I seriously don't get why Goku and the audience saw Freeza's deeds as so evil when Vegeta did the same thing.

[DBZ Mick]

I didn't like how they kept building Gohan up in the Artifical Human/Cell arc, to not want to be left behind and be useless anymore (even more so in the anime) and they when it comes to fighting Cell... he suddenly doesn't want to fight.

Vegeta's antics in the Artifical Human/Cell arc were annoying too.

[Duo]

The first post.

I think the writing for Gohan lost focus and purpose after the Freeza arc. He's not properly built up or used in the Cell arc, making his sudden "Hero status" really awkward in a straight read-through. Where in the hell did pacifism come from? Sure, he doesn't lust for combat, but when did he have moral objections to hurting bad people? What happened to the Gohan whom Goku had to restrain in Kami's Palace during the second fight between Piccolo and Cell?

I do not think my commentary is required on this for the Majin Buu period.

[matt0044]

Where in the hell did pacifism come from?

Wasn't he scared of his power if he lost control (like with Raditz)?

[coola]

He also said "I don`t really like fight and kill, even bad people like you, Cell"

[rereboy]

"Yamucha wasn't exactly faithful." Yeah... That's in character...

No, that's just Bulma spouting bullshit and also I'd like to see you explain how the Cell arc fucks up all the characters.

Sure, Yamcha couldn't ever be unfaithful, even though we hardly ever see any aspect of their relationship and even though its stated in the manga that he wasn't exactly faithful, because you don't like the idea .

Yamcha can still be a great guy even if he wasn't that great to Bulma, you know? Things aren't white or black and Yamcha was never a white knight in shiny armor. He actually robbed people in the desert the first time we saw him, he's no saint. Bulma's isn't either but that doesn't mean that she was lying and that Yamcha never did anything wrong in their relationship.

[Nikkolas]

How about both parties were just young, immature and did stupid stuff.

Hey...Yamcha and Bulma are the most realistic couple in the series.

[ABED]

He also said "I don`t really like fight and kill, even bad people like you, Cell"

He did say that, but does Goku enjoy killing his enemies? No. He does enjoy fighting them, but he doesn't get any pleasure in killing them, just relief that the threat is over. Gohan can't be that naive to think he could reason with Cell. That's why I feel it's out of character. He spends the entire arc wanting to be of use, and then when it's his turn, he doesn't want to do anything. What would make sense, is if Gohan's dilemma was simply not being sure he could draw out his power. That's there, but I'm talking about just leaving it at that, not the stuff about being afraid of his power or not wanting to fight.

As for Yamcha and Bulma, she can overlook mass murder, but possibly cheating is a no-no?

[Nikkolas]

Vegeta never killed anyone okay? He only had Nappa do it.

And he only attempted to murder every last man, woman and child on Earth because he threw a temper tantrum about Goku being a challenge.

[ABED]

Vegeta never killed anyone okay? He only had Nappa do it.

And he only attempted to murder every last man, woman and child on Earth because he threw a temper tantrum about Goku being a challenge.

I don't know if this is a genuine argument or sarcasm. His underling did all of that on his command and if he had defeated the Z team, what do you think he would've done with every Earthling? Also, it's well established that Vegeta murdered mountains of people, children included.

[DBZAOTA482]

"Yamucha wasn't exactly faithful." Yeah... That's in character...

No, that's just Bulma spouting bullshit and also I'd like to see you explain how the Cell arc fucks up all the characters.

Sure, Yamcha couldn't ever be unfaithful, even though we hardly ever see any aspect of their relationship and even though its stated in the manga that he wasn't exactly faithful, because you don't like the idea .

Yamcha can still be a great guy even if he wasn't that great to Bulma, you know? Things aren't white or black and Yamcha was never a white knight in shiny armor. He actually robbed people in the desert the first time we saw him, he's no saint. Bulma's isn't either but that doesn't mean that she was lying and that Yamcha never did anything wrong in their relationship.

Well, I've conceded with the fact that Yamcha has cheated but like I said to escape his harsh reality of a relationship and the "playboy" thing that Bulma told Trunks I think was a real stretch of the truth because Bulma has a history of blowing things out of portion, and it isn't the first time she accused Yamcha of being a playboy.

I think the writing for Gohan lost focus and purpose after the Freeza arc. He's not properly built up or used in the Cell arc, making his sudden "Hero status" really awkward in a straight read-through. Where in the hell did pacifism come from? Sure, he doesn't lust for combat, but when did he have moral objections to hurting bad people? What happened to the Gohan whom Goku had to restrain in Kami's Palace during the second fight between Piccolo and Cell?

I do not think my commentary is required on this for the Majin Buu period.

Well, Gohan was always very reluctant to fight unless he was forced to act and Cell was probably the first time he felt as though he was in the position to have the villain listen to him given it's his first real battle and it's to the death. Not to mention his latent powers were not brought upon the stuff that happens to him but rather the injustice he sees before him, which is why 16's death put it all to a climax (the callousness in how Cell treated the cyborg).

As for Yamcha and Bulma, she can overlook mass murder, but possibly cheating is a no-no?

Of course, Vegeta's a victim of the circumstance. Bulma probably sought out Vegeta to spite Yamcha for supposedly cheating on her (anime filler I think touches upon this) and Vegeta was the first guy to treat her with respect instead of appeasing to her narcissistic mentality. The fact that she saw him shirtless probably helps.

[ABED]

How is Vegeta a victim of circumstance? Vegeta treated her with respect? Even if Vegeta had been forced to murder people, that doesn't excuse his actions when he strikes out on his own. He also takes glee in murdering people. I have no idea how you could reach the conclusion that he was in any way a victim of circumstance. To say Vegeta is nice because how he treats Bulma is like saying Stalin is a nice guy because he gave you chocolates. How could anyone ever trust him enough to get close to him much less get intimate? Vegeta is the type to kill people for giving him a dirty look.

"Not to mention his latent powers were not brought upon the stuff that happens to him"
His training on the desert island would suggest otherwise.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I also think Gohan after the Cell arc suffered some character derailment. He was fine up to his fight with Dabura at which point he became stupid and decided not to go Ssj2. He was slightly redeemed upon becoming Ultimate Gohan but he got knocked back down after he let Goten and Trunks fuse against his better judgement allowing Buu to get the upper hand. Then he misses an earring even though he can catch bullets. He then gets absorbed and later denied from kicking Pure Buu's ass. He then slacks on his training again! Knowing full well that is a bad idea. I really want to like Gohan but he got severely screwed.

[rereboy]

Well, I've conceded with the fact that Yamcha has cheated but like I said to escape his harsh reality of a relationship and the "playboy" thing that Bulma told Trunks I think was a real stretch of the truth because Bulma has a history of blowing things out of portion, and it isn't the first time she accused Yamcha of being a playboy.

You are assuming an awful lot about their relationship when hardly anything was shown (complete with the reasons for cheating and everything).

I could do the same and assume that the reason for why Bulma is so flirty with men, despite being with Yamcha, is because Yamcha never made her feel very sure about his faithfulness and their future. After all, we only see her being flirty when she is single or when she is with Yamcha. After she got with Vegeta, she never acted that way again. But is there any basis to this assumption? About as much there is for yours.

The only thing we know is what Bulma told us (directly or indirectly). Everything else is, honestly, baseless speculation because we've never seen how Yamcha really is with other women in the manga or how Yamcha and Bulma are together. The most we have is a scene with Yamcha drooling over some random girls in a filler scene in DB, which doesn't speak volumes about his faithfulness, but, like I said, its filler. And without any more basis, I don't see why we should assume that Bulma is lying or completely overeacting instead of assume that she was telling, basically, her side of the truth.

[DBZAOTA482]

How is Vegeta a victim of circumstance? Vegeta treated her with respect? Even if Vegeta had been forced to murder people, that doesn't excuse his actions when he strikes out on his own. He also takes glee in murdering people. I have no idea how you could reach the conclusion that he was in any way a victim of circumstance. To say Vegeta is nice because how he treats Bulma is like saying Stalin is a nice guy because he gave you chocolates. How could anyone ever trust him enough to get close to him much less get intimate? Vegeta is the type to kill people for giving him a dirty look.

"Not to mention his latent powers were not brought upon the stuff that happens to him"
His training on the desert island would suggest otherwise.

Not gonna lie, I don't get it either but a lot can happen in three years. I mean, it was probably a one-night lust feast and Vegeta seemed less evil from their point of view than he did during the Saiyan Saga.

I had no idea how to word it. I should have said "His Raging 'Burning Inner Strength' were not upon the stuff that happens to him on the battlefield but rather the injustice that occurs before him".