How come they didn't bring Gohan to fight Kid Buu?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

What difference would his size make if his power stayed the same?

I guess they didn't feel his power.

I'm not so sure about that. They were able to sense his Chi rise as he changed into the Kaioshin form, so it's hard to believe they stopped sensing him altogether.

Now to be fair, Vegeta did admit Kid Boo was much more powerful than he thought while he was fighting Goku, but initially there had to be some sort of decrease in power. Yes, Kid Boo was stronger than he was letting on upon returning to that form, but even still, he's most likely weaker than Super Boo. Goku and Vegeta are smart fighters. Their confidence in dealing with Kid Boo had to have been derived from the fact that his power changed enough to give them a fighting chance.

Then why is Vegeta laughing about his size ?

Super Boo=Tall and monstrously powerful
Kid Boo=Small and weaker

Goku said he wanted to use Fusion to defeat fat Boo if Gohan and Vegeta weren't dead.
In each case, he preferred to use Fusion rather than his SS3.

Yeah, but that fusion isn't permanent. He also didn't know much about Fat Boo at that point, and he never wanted to use Super Saiyan 3.

[Bussani]

I guess they didn't feel his power.

I'm just not sure about how everything flows if we try to assume that. One minute Goku's nervously pointing out that Buu's power is getting bigger, and the next he's saying, "We did it! Now maybe we can win." It feels weird for him to be celebrating and thinking they can win just because he shrunk. Did he forget about Buu's ki going up that quickly?

It's true that Vegeta only mentioned his size, but I don't think that affects the implications people find here. I'm kind of glad every word out of their mouths isn't a straight forward power statement, to be honest.

[Pan-Pan]

Because even his size became less intimidating. Of course, Vegeta wouldn't laugh if he had actually become stronger despite his small size, but since he actually became weaker (to the point that he could be managed by them) and even his size looked less intimidating, he commented on that, making fun of him.

But Vegeta only commented on his size, and not on his power. And he didn't say "Even his size is ridiculous !"

I'm just not sure about how everything flows if we try to assume that. One minute Goku's nervously pointing out that Buu's power is getting bigger, and the next he's saying, "We did it! Now maybe we can win." It feels weird for him to be celebrating and thinking they can win just because he shrunk. Did he forget about Buu's ki going up that quickly?

Maybe Boo was suppressing his ki, given that they later admit to have underestimated Boo's power. I don't know.
Honestly, I also find it strange they judge Boo only on his size without feeling his ki. But, to me, it's even more weird that there is no mention of his power if they really take his ki into account.

It's true that Vegeta only mentioned his size, but I don't think that affects the implications people find here. I'm kind of glad every word out of their mouths isn't a straight forward power statement, to be honest.

It affects mine. Don't you find weird none of them mentions his new power ? Usually, when a character becomes stronger or weaker, this is always clearly mentioned by a power statement. Why is it not mentioned here ?
When I see Goku's line, I wonder "You can take this guy ? Why ? Based on what ?" And the only thing I see is "Haha ! Look at his size !" It's not like it was the first time a character made an error in judgment by only paying attention at the enemy's size. Remember Krilin when he first saw Freeza's final form, or Vegeta vs Perfect Cell.
We need to know for sure if his power has dropped. How much ? A bit ? A lot ? "We can take this guy" ! Vegeta too ? Really ? We need clarification, details.

[rereboy]

Because even his size became less intimidating. Of course, Vegeta wouldn't laugh if he had actually become stronger despite his small size, but since he actually became weaker (to the point that he could be managed by them) and even his size looked less intimidating, he commented on that, making fun of him.

But Vegeta only commented on his size, and not on his power. And he didn't say "Even his size is ridiculous !"

And you chose to ignore the rest of what I said and only focus on my first sentence because...? The answer to your comment is there.

Maybe Boo was suppressing his ki, given that they later admit to have underestimated Boo's power. I don't know.

They imply that he's more difficult than anticipated but that they can still handle him, which was pretty much what they said when he first appeared. So, they didn't significantly miscalculated his power.

It affects mine. Don't you find weird none of them mentions his new power ? Usually, when a character becomes stronger or weaker, this is always clearly mentioned by a power statement. Why is it not mentioned here ?

Because not everything has to be spelled out to the reader...? We are able to see that they are stating that now they can handle him when it stated before that would get killed facing the previous Buu. And we are also able to see that that opinion never changed, nor even after actually fighting Kid Buu. We also know that they can feel the opponent's power. Therefore... We don't need a character to flat out tells us that his power has decreased. Its already implied. Besides, Goku and Vegeta know that they are both sensing Buu's power, hence why neither needs to flat out inform the other that his power decreased, and instead can celebrate the development by saying that they can handle him now and making fun of his new little frame.

[Bussani]

Maybe Boo was suppressing his ki, given that they later admit to have underestimated Boo's power.

That's definitely a possibility that's always been there, yeah. But as rereboy said, they still thought Goku could handle Buu, and were only wrong because of Super Saiyan 3's unexpected drawbacks. At that point, it sort of becomes a matter of whether Goku was lying/wrong when he said they wouldn't be able to handle Super Buu. If he was lying/wrong, then Kid Buu could be stronger. If not, then Kid Buu should be weaker. Everything seems to hinge on that comment, rather than these ones, but that leaves it all just as open to interpretation as when we started. People point out that Goku lied before, but that only works as evidence that he could have been lying about Super Buu, and doesn't disprove that he was telling the truth at all. In the end, both interpretations seem possible, depending on how you look at things.

It affects mine. Don't you find weird none of them mentions his new power ? Usually, when a character becomes stronger or weaker, this is always clearly mentioned by a power statement. Why is it not mentioned here ?

The comic wasn't written to be a collection of power statements, and to a lot of readers, it doesn't really matter which Buu is stronger. I don't really find it weird myself--but yes, like you, I am at least curious about what the author had in mind when he wrote it.

[Zephyr]

People point out that Goku lied before, but that only works as evidence that he could have been lying about Super Buu, and doesn't disprove that he was telling the truth at all. In the end, both interpretations seem possible, depending on how you look at things.

The issue I see with this argument is that it presumes that Goku lies for the sake of lying. The two previous times he lied had legitimate reason behind them. Lying at this point would really serve no purpose.

[Bussani]

Some people say it could be to spare Vegeta's feelings, like how he later still acts like Vegeta could take a turn against Kid Buu and have a chance. Of course, Vegeta had already called Goku out on pretending he couldn't handle things with Super Saiyan 3, so it would be kind of dickish for Goku to do it again not long after that.

[Pan-Pan]

And you chose to ignore the rest of what I said and only focus on my first sentence because...? The answer to your comment is there.

I didn't ignore it. The rest may explain why he laughed at his size, but not why he only commented on that. And he can also laugh at his size if he doesn't know he's stronger.

Because not everything has to be spelled out to the reader...? We are able to see that they are stating that now they can handle him when it stated before that would get killed facing the previous Buu. And we are also able to see that that opinion never changed, nor even after actually fighting Kid Buu. We also know that they can feel the opponent's power. Therefore... We don't need a character to flat out tells us that his power has decreased. Its already implied.

You assume this Boo is weaker because you interpret it this way. But I can interpret it this way : Goku lied about Evil Boo and simply told the truth in front of this stronger Boo. And you can't prove I'm wrong because there is no mention of Boo's power decreasing. Therefore, we need a character to flat out tell us that his power has decreased.

Besides, Goku and Vegeta know that they are both sensing Buu's power, hence why neither needs to flat out inform the other that his power decreased, and instead can celebrate the development by saying that they can handle him now and making fun of his new little frame.

This argument is irrelevant because Goku said Boo's power was rising even if Vegeta could sense it too. And Vegeta tells Goku that Boo has shrunk down, yet both have eyes to see it. There are plenty of times in the manga where a character says the villain's power increased while he knows the others are sensing it too.

At that point, it sort of becomes a matter of whether Goku was lying/wrong when he said they wouldn't be able to handle Super Buu. If he was lying/wrong, then Kid Buu could be stronger. If not, then Kid Buu should be weaker. Everything seems to hinge on that comment, rather than these ones, but that leaves it all just as open to interpretation as when we started. People point out that Goku lied before, but that only works as evidence that he could have been lying about Super Buu, and doesn't disprove that he was telling the truth at all. In the end, both interpretations seem possible, depending on how you look at things.

Glad to hear it.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Really not seeing why Goku would lie here. Vegeta already called him out on hiding Super Saiyan 3, so to continue on with the lies just seems...pointless. Vegeta was already well outclassed by the various Boo's and Goku at that point, so it's not like he'd need to lie to make him feel good. He already knew what was up.

I said it before, but I'll say it again: Goku's original plan was to return Super Boo to normal form and give it a try. The plan worked, but Super Boo still ended up being more powerful than them. Thus they had to think about plan B.

[rereboy]

I didn't ignore it. The rest may explain why he laughed at his size, but not why he only commented on that. And he can also laugh at his size if he doesn't know he's stronger.

I covered that in my comments.

You assume this Boo is weaker because you interpret it this way. But I can interpret it this way : Goku lied about Evil Boo and simply told the truth in front of this stronger Boo. And you can't prove I'm wrong because there is no mention of Boo's power decreasing. Therefore, we need a character to flat out tell us that his power has decreased.

Your interpretation doesn't work at all because Vegeta agreed with Goku. Both characters were relieved when Kid Buu appeared and both of them agreed that they could handle him now by themselves, and that opinion, shared by both of them, never changed. If Goku was lying, it wouldn't make sense for Vegeta to also be relieved and agree that they could handle him. It also wouldn't make sense for Vegeta to not call out Goku on his lie if he lied in any of those moments. So, at least I think I demonstrated how your interpretation is fundamentally flawed.

This argument is irrelevant because Goku said Boo's power was rising even if Vegeta could sense it too. And Vegeta tells Goku that Boo has shrunk down, yet both have eyes to see it. There are plenty of times in the manga where a character says the villain's power increased while he knows the others are sensing it too.

Goku stated that for two reasons:
- to tell the reader that he was becoming stronger.
- to make sure that Vegeta was sensing the same thing he was, because that was totally unexpected... They were expecting a drop in his power, not an increase.

However, when Buu turned into Kid Buu, what they were expecting finally happened. This was a great relief, so both characters expressed their relief and satisfaction at this, without feeling the need to confirm with each other that what they were sensing was right. The reader, by their reactions, and thanks to the following events also realizes without much trouble that what they were hoping for (a decrease in power) has happened, so the reader is informed of this without the characters having to flat out say it.

[Amuro Ray]

I didn't ignore it. The rest may explain why he laughed at his size, but not why he only commented on that. And he can also laugh at his size if he doesn't know he's stronger.

I covered that in my comments.

You assume this Boo is weaker because you interpret it this way. But I can interpret it this way : Goku lied about Evil Boo and simply told the truth in front of this stronger Boo. And you can't prove I'm wrong because there is no mention of Boo's power decreasing. Therefore, we need a character to flat out tell us that his power has decreased.

Your interpretation doesn't work at all because Vegeta agreed with Goku. Both characters were relieved when Kid Buu appeared and both of them agreed that they could handle him now by themselves, and that opinion, shared by both of them, never changed. If Goku was lying, it wouldn't make sense for Vegeta to also be relieved and agree that they could handle him. So, at least I think I demonstrated how you interpretation is fundamentally flawed.

This argument is irrelevant because Goku said Boo's power was rising even if Vegeta could sense it too. And Vegeta tells Goku that Boo has shrunk down, yet both have eyes to see it. There are plenty of times in the manga where a character says the villain's power increased while he knows the others are sensing it too.

Goku stated that for two reasons:
- to tell the reader that he was becoming stronger.
- to make sure that Vegeta was sensing the same thing he was, because that was totally unexpected... They were expecting a drop in his power, not an increase.

However, when Buu turned into Kid Buu, what they were expecting finally happened. This was a great relief, so both characters expressed their relief and satisfaction at this, without feeling the need to confirm with each other that what they were sensing was right. The reader, by their reactions, and thanks to the following events also realizes without much trouble that what they were hoping for (a decrease in power) has happened, so the reader is informed of this without the characters having to flat out say it.

I wouldn't call it relief, they are clearly shown sweating and nervous.

[rereboy]

I wouldn't call it relief, they are clearly shown sweating and nervous.

They were saying that now they could handle him and even made fun of his size. They were clearly relieved. If they were still sweating on some panels its because a few seconds ago Buu was becoming stronger instead of weaker.

[Amuro Ray]

I wouldn't call it relief, they are clearly shown sweating and nervous.

They were saying that now they could handle him and even made fun of his size. They were clearly relieved. If they were still sweating on some panels its because a few seconds ago Buu was becoming stronger instead of weaker.

That's what YOU believe - of course I disagree. We see Buu next panel clearly ready to test his new found power out and destroy shit.

[Draken]

I wouldn't call it relief, they are clearly shown sweating and nervous.

They were saying that now they could handle him and even made fun of his size. They were clearly relieved. If they were still sweating on some panels its because a few seconds ago Buu was becoming stronger instead of weaker.

That's what YOU believe - of course I disagree. We see Buu next panel clearly ready to test his new found power out and destroy shit.

Of course he is, Pure Buu is a maniacal senseless monster, why wouldn't he be ready to destroy shit?

[rereboy]

I wouldn't call it relief, they are clearly shown sweating and nervous.

They were saying that now they could handle him and even made fun of his size. They were clearly relieved. If they were still sweating on some panels its because a few seconds ago Buu was becoming stronger instead of weaker.

That's what YOU believe - of course I disagree. We see Buu next panel clearly ready to test his new found power out and destroy shit.

You disagree that they were saying that now they could handle him and even made fun of his size? Or do you believe that they were as nervous or even more so than before, despite them saying that now they could handle him and even making fun of his size?

As for his willingness to destroy "shit"... So? How is that a indicator for how strong he is? The fact that he is the most chaotic and evil of all the Buus was never in question. Just his power.

[Amuro Ray]

You disagree that they were saying that now they could handle him and even made fun of his size? Or do you believe that they were as nervous or even more so than before, despite them saying that now they could handle him and even making fun of his size?

As for his willingness to destroy "shit"... So? How is that a indicator for how strong he is? The fact that he is the most chaotic and evil of all the Buus was never in question. Just his power.

His power was weakend through the absorbing the south Kaioshin - as Kibito pointed out, he's more powerful and more dangerous. We see him living up to that when he blows up Earth.

[rereboy]

You disagree that they were saying that now they could handle him and even made fun of his size? Or do you believe that they were as nervous or even more so than before, despite them saying that now they could handle him and even making fun of his size?

As for his willingness to destroy "shit"... So? How is that a indicator for how strong he is? The fact that he is the most chaotic and evil of all the Buus was never in question. Just his power.

His power was weakend through the absorbing the south Kaioshin - as Kibito pointed out, he's more powerful and more dangerous. We see him living up to that when he blows up Earth.

Check your facts. He only stated that Kid Buu was more dangerous/troublesome. He never said more powerful. As for blowing up Earth, even first form Freeza could do that with little effort. That tells us nothing important regarding Kid Buu's power.

[Amuro Ray]

I just read my scanlations - so post up the quotes for me please -
But the story shows Vegeta and Goku mocking Kiddbuu, then it pans to Kibito telling us about Buu's history and how the Kai's weakended him from his original form and finally Buu testing his power by destorying Earth. When fusion is suggested as the best means of defeating Buu, Goku declines and decides to fight Buu on his own with "My own power" meaning Goku apparently never wanted to use SSJ3 and probably had the potential to fight Buu unfused from Vegeta for a while. Not once was reviving the boys or Gohan consider an option.

There is also Vegeta's suprise when Goku transforms into SSJ3 - considering Vegeta would have seen/sensed Gohan and Gotenks from the Afterlife, he's fused with Goku and fought the most powerful form of Buu and now he senses the massive amount of power Goku is able to generate. It just speaks volumes on how powerful SSJ3 really is.

[dprez]

Ssj3 Gotenks is shown to be roughly equal to Super Boo, the exact same Boo Goku said was too much for him and Vegeta unless they fused. You can believe certain statements were false or whatever, but we can clearly see that Goku and Vegeta cannot handle the very same Boo a Ssj3 Gotenks handled, without fusion. So from previous statements, and frankly, common sense, a Ssj3 Gotenks is and must be stronger than a Ssj3 Goku.

Then we see a Boo who seams weaker than the previous Boo, and Goku and Vegeta seam to think they have a chance now. Again, believe what you want, but we are told and showed what is actually happening.

Honestly, you're trying to create something that really isn't there. What is there tells us something, it really does. I simply cannot understand otherwise...

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I just read my scanlations - so post up the quotes for me please -
But the story shows Vegeta and Goku mocking Kiddbuu, then it pans to Kibito telling us about Buu's history and how the Kai's weakended him from his original form and finally Buu testing his power by destorying Earth. When fusion is suggested as the best means of defeating Buu, Goku declines and decides to fight Buu on his own with "My own power" meaning Goku apparently never wanted to use SSJ3 and probably had the potential to fight Buu unfused from Vegeta for a while. Not once was reviving the boys or Gohan consider an option.

Here's the quotes:

Strength Checker
Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.2-7
Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the

West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “

Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “

Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”

There is also Vegeta's suprise when Goku transforms into SSJ3 - considering Vegeta would have seen/sensed Gohan and Gotenks from the Afterlife, he's fused with Goku and fought the most powerful form of Buu and now he senses the massive amount of power Goku is able to generate. It just speaks volumes on how powerful SSJ3 really is.

Vegeta definitely saw Super Saiyan 3 Goku from the otherworld, but I'm not so sure he saw Gohan and Gotenks. Maybe he saw Gotenks briefly in his weaker forms, but most likely not in his Super Saiyan 3 form. He wasn't even aware that Boo had powered himself up by absorbing them, which tells us he didn't see everything that was going on. Despite Vegeta seeing Super Saiyan 3 Goku from otherworld, he actually wanted to see the form up close, with his own eyes--which is stated right before Goku fights Kid Boo.