Was Gokuu at 4,000 in base against Nappa/ Vegeta?

[IIMaxII]

They may not have been able to lower their power as much as Goku and CO, but I do believe that they have a resting power level, before powering up.

[rereboy]

They may not have been able to lower their power as much as Goku and CO, but I do believe that they have a resting power level, before powering up.

Every statement and every surprised reaction is not due to how much they can change their power level, but due to the fact that they can change their power level.

That means that the scouter would detect the same power level whether they are resting or not.

Sure, if they are resting, their power isn't manifesting itself, but its not hidden deep inside them like Earthlings tend to do. In other words, they simply aren't using it, even though they aren't hiding it. Therefore, the scouter picks it up just like they were in fact using it.

Only when Ki is hidden deep inside like Earthling tend to do, the scouter fails to pick up all the power level of that fighter. It only picks it up when the fighter releases it.

[Bussani]

There must be more to it than the idea that Vegeta and Nappa's battle powers naturally fluctuate, if you ask me. For example, Piccolo couldn't tell that Vegeta was stronger than Nappa and only guessed that he was because of how Nappa obeyed his orders. Does that mean Vegeta's resting battle power was as low as Nappa's? That's way too dramatic--it would put the Earthling's battle power suppressing to shame!

Looking at all the evidence, I come to a conclusion similar to rereboy's: when Vegeta and Nappa "power up" they do something with their ki that blows the minds of the Earthlings (e.g. it could have become more noticeable, like how an inaudible, low frequency sound can appear to get louder as you increase its frequency and make it audible, even if you don't change the "volume"*), but I don't think a scouter would register a change in their battle powers at all.

*Volume isn't quite the right word here, but I think it's easier to understand.

Because no one else but them, as elite warriors, could do it, not even Cui, Dodoria or Zarbon.

I'm pretty sure Vegeta flat out says to Kui that he learned to control his battle power from seeing the Earthlings and Goku (a fellow Saiyan) do it.

[rereboy]

There must be more to it than the idea that Vegeta and Nappa's battle powers naturally fluctuate, if you ask me. For example, Piccolo couldn't tell that Vegeta was stronger than Nappa and only guessed that he was because of how Nappa obeyed his orders.

That's presumably because of the differences between Earthling Ki sensing and scouter power detecting.

They are different methods of determining power and, as such, there are differences.

Ki sensing relies more on a sixth sense, on feeling or instinct. The scouter is purely science. From what we can tell from the manga, scouters have an easier time at detecting the exact power level of a fighter when he is resting or not using his power than Ki sensing (at least as long as the fighter isn't hiding his Ki). That's why Piccolo for example has an easier time at guessing the exact power of Nappa and Vegeta when they are actually using their power and why his guesses are never as exact as scouter readings. However, Ki sensing seems to have an easier time detecting when the opponent is actually hiding his Ki than the scouter which is completely fooled when the opponent is hiding his Ki. This is probably because Ki sensing relies on a sense of instinct.

[Rocketman]

A thermometer can tell you the exact temperature of an area. It cannot tell you if somebody is hiding a heater under a giant ceramic cone.

[Ringworm128]

I can't remember who said it but on the podcast someone came up with a good idea on the difference between the Saiyans and the Earthlings suppressing their power.

The Saiyans powering up is like somebody who is already visibly muscular flexing their arms where as the Earthlings do something that's akin to making yourself look like nothing.

[Bussani]

Sounds like something Kaboom would say.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, that's my old "shirts & muscles" analogy.

What the Saiyans and most space-thugs can do is like wearing a shirt but then tearing it off and flexing. You could see their arms before and maybe guess at how strong they are, but now you've got a really good "look" and can tell the true extent of their strength.

What the Earthlings can do is different; they wear a long-sleeved baggy shirt and stuff a pillow under it to hide their muscles completely, THEN likewise tear the shirt off and flex to reveal their strength.

[Duo]

You're right. That pretty much cinches it.

Nappa: V-Vegeta...What was Kakarrot's power again?!
Vegeta: Over...8,000...
Nappa: 8,000...?! It's a mistake! It's broken!
Goku: Don't worry. I won't use the "Kaio-ken" on you yet...

This, plus the fact that the Kaio-ken is always presented VERY clearly in the artwork of the Manga.

How is there even a question left on the matter? The only way to view the matter differently would be willful ignorance.

[IIMaxII]

Honestly, if Nappa was only at 4000, why would Goku need Kaioken? Nappa is obviously close to Goku in power level...I'd say he's a bit under 8,000...7,500 as I said before, with Goku at 8,200. He then uses the Kaioken to quickly finish him off.

[Kamiccolo9]

Honestly, if Nappa was only at 4000, why would Goku need Kaioken? Nappa is obviously close to Goku in power level...I'd say he's a bit under 8,000...7,500 as I said before, with Goku at 8,200. He then uses the Kaioken to quickly finish him off.

He didn't need Kaio-ken to beat Nappa; he needed it to catch him before he could kill Gohan and Krillin.

[Kaboom]

Goku didn't need the Kaio-Ken. He was easily slapping Nappa around without it, and Nappa never laid a hand on him in return.

Goku only needed the Kaio-Ken to catch up to Nappa and save Gohan and Kuririn, and even then only because Nappa had a head start. If Goku's twice as fast as Nappa but also twice as far from Gohan and Kuririn, then they'd both reach them at the same time and that's not good enough. Nappa was about to launch his big mouth blast attack at them too, which meant Goku had even less time to reach them, making the Kaio-Ken necessary.