Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Duo wrote:Seems like they can only get away with calling these things something different when they don't have an immense pressure on them to be popular, aka Ultimate Gohan. Even then, the fans went with "Mystic Saiyan" for years on the internet, which is a pretty similar title.
Maybe we should call this God Goku, Ultimate Goku, "Mystic" Goku
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Gohan wasn't called a SS(x) because Rou Kaioshin told that transforming is a wrong way to do things. Gohan has SS power in base form, so he can't be a SS. While we're at it, he can't even transform into a SS originally, because that's what he tried to do initially, but became "Ultimate". BOG is just bullshit.
BoG is a continuation of the manga as stated by Toriyama himself so no it's not bull shit. Furthermore, him going SSJ was missed by the animators or he can go SSJ without going mystic. Gohan powered up to mystic the same way he goes SSJ but at the same time he is drawing on his potential. He can likely just choose to go SSJ still. Basically think of Mystic like SSJ2, he can still go SSJ but he can take it further if he wants to.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
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TheMightyOzaru wrote:BoG is a continuation of the manga as stated by Toriyama himself so no it's not bull shit.
AT didn't say "continuation of the manga".
He kinda did:
After first deciding on Birus’s character design and background, I tried thinking up an original story, imagining it as though [the manga's] serialization had continued.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
Duo wrote:Gohan never goes Super Saiyan in Battle of Gods. Research your statements please!
He does. He goes SSJ during the ritual to make SSJ God.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
For Ssj4 I like the design with golden hair and black fur. To me that is a lot better.
For Ssj God, I probably would go with the Psuedo Super Saiyan used in Movie 4. It looks like Aang in that show where he goes beast mode. Jesus I don't know the form or the show. Ughh. Water benders and stuff? Lol
Mjb1985 wrote:For Ssj4 I like the design with golden hair and black fur. To me that is a lot better.
For Ssj God, I probably would go with the Psuedo Super Saiyan used in Movie 4. It looks like Aang in that show where he goes beast mode. Jesus I don't know the form or the show. Ughh. Water benders and stuff? Lol
Completely disagree with the SSJ4 idea. It would look ugly like that and make me think Bee Goku.
I think you mean Avatar State Aang. Where his tattoo's glow and he gets all the past knowledge of the previous Avatars.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Mjb1985 wrote:For Ssj4 I like the design with golden hair and black fur. To me that is a lot better.
For Ssj God, I probably would go with the Psuedo Super Saiyan used in Movie 4. It looks like Aang in that show where he goes beast mode. Jesus I don't know the form or the show. Ughh. Water benders and stuff? Lol
That would be the Avatar state.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
You mean this....
It's interesting, I'll give you that, but I would go for brown fur. My ideal SSJ4 is either all gold or black hair with brown fur.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
That Vegeta's stepping a little closer to what I'd imagine for a Super Saiyan 5, really. Since Super Saiyan 4 is a combo between the Oozaru state and the Saiyan's base state (so yeah, it probably should have brown fur, if not the hair as well), then it's just always clicked in my head that if - and only if - there was a Super Saiyan 5, it would likewise be a combination of Super Saiyan and Oozaru...just in a humanoid form rather than what the golden oozaru was. So a Super Saiyan 4, only with golden hair in the style of the character's normal Super Saiyan hair (albeit shaggier maybe), and golden fur.
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Gold hair + black fur is close to what my ideal design for Super Saiyan 4 would be, but instead I think it should be brown, like the Oozaru. Mainly because most of the official art shows that a Saiyan's tail doesn't turn gold in Super Saiyan.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Saiga wrote:Gold hair + black fur is close to what my ideal design for Super Saiyan 4 would be, but instead I think it should be brown, like the Oozaru. Mainly because most of the official art shows that a Saiyan's tail doesn't turn gold in Super Saiyan.
It turns gold when you are a SSJ3 in GT.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
Saiga wrote:Gold hair + black fur is close to what my ideal design for Super Saiyan 4 would be, but instead I think it should be brown, like the Oozaru. Mainly because most of the official art shows that a Saiyan's tail doesn't turn gold in Super Saiyan.
It turns gold when you are a SSJ3 in GT.
Yeah, I know. That's why I think the Golden Great Ape is actually SS3 + Oozaru rather than SS + Oozaru. But for an ideal SS+Oozaru combination I like the idea of Super Saiyan not affecting the fur colour.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Saiga wrote:Gold hair + black fur is close to what my ideal design for Super Saiyan 4 would be, but instead I think it should be brown, like the Oozaru. Mainly because most of the official art shows that a Saiyan's tail doesn't turn gold in Super Saiyan.
It turns gold when you are a SSJ3 in GT.
Yeah, I know. That's why I think the Golden Great Ape is actually SS3 + Oozaru rather than SS + Oozaru. But for an ideal SS+Oozaru combination I like the idea of Super Saiyan not affecting the fur colour.
SSJ changes the hair color, why wouldn't the entirety of the Oozaru turn gold with just SSJ?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
TheMightyOzaru wrote:
SSJ changes the hair color, why wouldn't the entirety of the Oozaru turn gold with just SSJ?
Because a Saiyan's hair and (tail) fur are separate. Excluding Super Saiyan 3, the tail fur is unaffected by Super Saiyan.
The Oozaru's isn't. Seriously, would the Oozaru be gold with a brown tail?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
