Dragon Ball Impact on Shonen

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

I consider Toriyama's impact on the Shounen genre to be minimal. Sure, there has been a few titles that was influenced by Goku's character, and a few other stuff but that was pretty much it. The art style just has evolved over time. If you look at the images posted above, you'd see that the early 80s' style was eventually evolved into 90s' style and so on. It's just how the art has changed. It's inevitable, anyway.

[Zenkai]

Dragon Ball has had a huge impact on modern shonen. Look at some of the most popular modern shonen like Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach. The creators of those series have said that Toriyama influenced them, and the influence is very obvious when reading those series. Those popular shonen would not be the same if it wasn't for Akira Toriyama and Dragon Ball.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

I just said a few titles were impacted by Toriyama. Naruto and One Piece. I wouldn't say Bleach was influenced by Dragon Ball. So, no, generally, it didn't impact the genre that much.

[B]

I just said a few titles were impacted by Toriyama. Naruto and One Piece. I wouldn't say Bleach was influenced by Dragon Ball. So, no, generally, it didn't impact the genre that much.

Well, creators don't have to directly insert homages from DB into their works to be inspired, as Naruto and One Piece. Tite Kubo, creator of BLEACH, loves DB.

Going back to what I brought up earlier, the DB mold of brighter, sunny heroes like Naruto Uzumaki, Monkey D. Luffy, and Ichigo Kurosaki are running rampant when more detailed characters ruled in DB's day. Among people like Jotaro Kujo, Kenshiro, Ryo Saeba, and Pegasus Seiya, Goku, specifically Kid Goku, stands out a lot.

[Zenkai]

I just said a few titles were impacted by Toriyama. Naruto and One Piece. I wouldn't say Bleach was influenced by Dragon Ball. So, no, generally, it didn't impact the genre that much.

I'm pretty sure Tite Kubo himself said Toriyama influenced him.

And influencing the most popular modern shonen is very significant.

[Saiga]

Toriyama said he was influenced by Dragon Ball, specifically the idea that the villains should be veeeery powerful. Which is why Aizen is a beast, I guess.

[Kid Buu]

Toriyama said he was influenced by Dragon Ball, specifically the idea that the villains should be veeeery powerful. Which is why Aizen is a beast, I guess.

...you mean Kubo?

[Mewzard]

Toriyama said he was influenced by Dragon Ball, specifically the idea that the villains should be veeeery powerful. Which is why Aizen is a beast, I guess.

To quote from an old US SJ interview with Kubo:

"Q: Which artists influenced you then, made you feel like it would be really cool to become a professional manga artist?

Tite Kubo: Hmm. My number one favorite manga then was Ge Ge Ge no Kitaro (by Shigeru Mizuki)! I've always liked the yokai (monsters) in that series. The other one that I liked a lot is Saint Seiya (a.k.a. Knights of the Zodiac by Masami Kurumada) -- the characters all wear armor and have interesting weapons.

Q: Huh! I guess that makes sense. I can kind of see some of the influence of both series in Bleach -- the Japanese supernatural themes from Ge Ge Ge no Kitaro and the weaponry and battle scenes from Saint Seiya.

Tite Kubo: Yes, I think so, definitely."

You can see the Kuru influence in the Soul Society Arc...mainly since it's pretty much an almost spot on copy of the Sanctuary Arc (Replace Ichigo and friends with the Bronze Saints, Rukia with Athena, whatever time Ichigo had to 12 hours, 13 Captains with 12 Gold Saints and the Pope, Bankai with the Seventh Sense *as something that make the Captains/Gold Saints normally stand above the lesser guys*, etc *and that's ignoring how many Captains compare to the Goldies in moves/themes, lol*). So, more "influence" than influence, but whatever, lol.

Dragon Ball's definitely influencing many series, but I think the big series of Jump all had their parts to play. 80s Jump was amazing because of the diversity. That carried a little into the 90s, but I just feel there are fewer and fewer standouts in this day and age. Maybe that's a negative side to Dragon Ball's popularity if it was indeed the majority influence of modern manga-ka in the shonen department.

[Saiga]

Toriyama said he was influenced by Dragon Ball, specifically the idea that the villains should be veeeery powerful. Which is why Aizen is a beast, I guess.

...you mean Kubo?

Yeah.

[rereboy]

I just said a few titles were impacted by Toriyama. Naruto and One Piece. I wouldn't say Bleach was influenced by Dragon Ball. So, no, generally, it didn't impact the genre that much.

Yeah, no... Dragon Ball influence is felt in almost every shonen out there and its the artists themselves who admit it.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

[rereboy]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

Read the tributes done by other artists translated in the main site first (under the name Kanzenban “Dragon Ball Information” Pamphlets: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/). There's 17 of them.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

I'm pretty sure there are older Shonen series that most likely made a bigger impact then Dragon Ball did.

I love the fact that you didn't name any Hellspawn

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

Read the tributes done by other artists translated in the main site first (under the name Kanzenban “Dragon Ball Information” Pamphlets: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/). There's 17 of them.

That's just artists liking Dragon Ball... And what they did was for Kanzenban release. What'd you expect? Of course everyone would come to love Dragon Ball just as much as manga artists do. There are countless mangas of Shounen genre every year and there are few mangas that was inspired by Dragon Ball.

[Kid Buu]

Although Kubo says he was inspired by DB, I gotta put it out there, Bleach feels a like more like Yu Yu Hakusho.

[Mewzard]

Although Kubo says he was inspired by DB, I gotta put it out there, Bleach feels a like more like Yu Yu Hakusho.

Well, once again, this was from an interview with Tite Kubo in the US Shonen Jump way back when:

"Q: Which artists influenced you then, made you feel like it would be really cool to become a professional manga artist?

Tite Kubo: Hmm. My number one favorite manga then was Ge Ge Ge no Kitaro (by Shigeru Mizuki)! I've always liked the yokai (monsters) in that series. The other one that I liked a lot is Saint Seiya (a.k.a. Knights of the Zodiac by Masami Kurumada) -- the characters all wear armor and have interesting weapons.

Q: Huh! I guess that makes sense. I can kind of see some of the influence of both series in Bleach -- the Japanese supernatural themes from Ge Ge Ge no Kitaro and the weaponry and battle scenes from Saint Seiya.

Tite Kubo: Yes, I think so, definitely."

So few English speaking fans notice this (due to our sadly small numbers in America), but yeah, the Zanpakuto are Cloths, regular soul reapers fit Bronze Saints, Lieutenants fit Silver Saints, and Captains even fit Gold Saints (down to the number if you count the original 12+Pope, or not count the Pope, but then count the soon to be revealed 13th one *this summer*). Hell, Ichigo even fills Seiya's "Rocky Balboa/resolve after getting the crap kicked out of him to win" hero type, Bankais are the Seventh Sense (for Captain/Gold Saint level stuff), the Soul Society WAS the Sanctuary arc remade decades later (The Hueco Mundo Arc reminds me of the Hades arc, but not as much as the copypasta SS arc).

But yeah, Dragon Ball was going to be treated well in SJ because of how successful it was/how much it was loved. WSJ sales peaked at the tail end of Dragon Ball iirc, and it was still one of the best selling manga in the magazine to this date. I doubt it influenced everyone; it might not have even influenced the majority, but it certainly influenced quite a few creators, especially once it took off and set SJ ablaze.

But, of course, there were other successes. Dragon Ball never got a chance to take the lead from Fist of the North Star until it was already dead (and by that, I mean the last year it ran, 1987).

The series, once hitting number one, only left that position twice: Once early on during it and Saint Seiya's clashing in the top 3 during the late 80s, and some manga I've never heard of called...Rokudenashi Blues (?) at the start of 1990? I don't think that position was taken back until after DB ended.

The magazine went downhill from there...yet somehow, One Piece continues to sell volumes like crazy despite a significantly dropped circulation rate of the magazine. I'm not entirely sure why that happened.

I gotta say, while I like Dragon Ball and enjoyed the style...I'd enjoy a few more series influenced by Fist of the North Star (then again, with how hyper violent that was, titles'd be kicked out to Seinen).

In fact, that's always been the most amusing thing to me. Several of Jump's biggest titles all got sequels outside of Jump: Jojo's Bizarre Adventure was forced out of Jump and into a Seinen magazine about 9 years ago or so, Fist of the Blue Sky was run in a Seinen magazine, Kinnikuman's sequel was aired in Weekly Playboy for crying out loud, lol. While Kuru did bring back a sequel to his first hit by running Ring ni Kakero 2 in WSJ, he took Saint Seiya out to Weekly Shonen Champion for his sequel and the spinoffs.

Is Dragon Ball's popularity that strong that all the classic series that ran before and around the time of Dragon Ball really can't survive in Jump due to its influence? Or is it just a matter of changing standards in this modern era and the classics didn't want to change?

It's an interesting thing to think about.

[Kid Buu]

Dude I already acknowledged that interview, I was merely just trying to say Bleach reminds me of YYH.

[Mewzard]

Dude I already acknowledged that interview, I was merely just trying to say Bleach reminds me of YYH.

Oh, sorry, must have misread your post then. My bad.

[rereboy]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

Read the tributes done by other artists translated in the main site first (under the name Kanzenban “Dragon Ball Information” Pamphlets: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/). There's 17 of them.

That's just artists liking Dragon Ball... And what they did was for Kanzenban release. What'd you expect? Of course everyone would come to love Dragon Ball just as much as manga artists do. There are countless mangas of Shounen genre every year and there are few mangas that was inspired by Dragon Ball.

Its obvious going by their statements that Dragon Ball influenced a whole generation of manga artists, including themselves. Of course, I'm not saying that Dragon Ball was the biggest influence for the mangas that have been doing, nor is that what they are saying in their tribute. However, its fairly obvious just how important Dragon Ball was for their generation and for themselves as artists. Therefore, saying, like you have done, that Dragon Ball has only influenced a couple of manga, is basically a very narrow point of view... Even when its not the biggest influence in a shonen manga, almost all of the shonen mangas today wouldn't be same if Dragon Ball hadn't existed. Dragon Ball was unmistakably a game changer.

So, when I read what you stated ("I consider Toriyama's impact on the Shounen genre to be minimal") and your other statements... Yeah... No.

[JulieYBM]

Naruto had some influence from Dragon Ball early on. Naruto's look reminding of Son Gokuu's is mostly superficial, so I won't bother going over that. While core story elements are mostly inspired by Japanese mythology, there is one or two hints of Dragon Ball. Early on 'transformations' in the form of Naruto's Nine-Tails Cloak and the Curse Seals were the big defining weapons of characters. Transformations pretty much went to the waste side for Part II (Shippuuden), though. It wasn't until about a hundred chapters ago that Naruto began using a transformation again. The light white/yellow glow of the Nine-Tails Chakra Mode might be a reference to Super Saiyan, but that's still pretty superficial.

Otherwise, Naruto has stayed clear of being too reference-y. An old man named 'Roushi' being the host of the Four-Tails, a giant monkey named Son Gokuu, is about as cutesy as Kishimoto Masashi gets with his references.