Do people here think FUNimation's Z Dub is the worst dub?

[dbboxkaifan]

In all fairness, FUNimation's Dragon Ball Z Dub is far from the worst when in comparison to the dubs in the European continent that used AB Groupe's shitty dialogue.

Here is the list of the dubs in Spain/Portugal which used AB Groupe's script and more:

- Retrospectiva sobre Dragon Ball. Historia de sus doblajes en España.

There were a lot of mistakes in FUNimation's old dub but overall it was still a much better one than Portugal's, Greece's or Poland's. The Portuguese dub almost made the DBZ dub a completely different show (although, still featuring the original soundtrack).

But hey, it was thanks to AB Groupe that Dragon Ball became popular in the western by being dubbed into many languages and years after FUNimation started releasing it on DVD. Also their fault that FUNimation named Mr. Satan as Hеrcule.

[Blade]

I think the usage of AB's dialogue in European countries had more to do with them owning the broadcast distribution rights for the territory, as opposed to broadcasters preferring them over Funimation.

That said, in the United Kingdom at least, the decision to use the Ocean Dub was down to a series of disputes between Cartoon Network (CNX/Toonami) and Funimation.

[kei17]

It is not its inaccurate script but its "we made it funnier and better" like self-indulgent feeling what makes it so bad. "Modifying" script works only when the original is full of flaws or simply boring, but it is unneeded and can be very rude to the original creators if the show is well made and enjoyable as-is. Some additional silly jokes and the replacement score were really unneeded.

I admit that I do prefer some official-parody-like Japanese dubs of Hollywood movies over the originals, though.

[Blade]

It is not its inaccurate script but its "we made it funnier and better" like self-indulgent feeling what makes it so bad. "Modifying" the script works only when the original is full of flaws or simply boring, but it is unneeded and can be very rude to the original creators if the show is well made and enjoyable as-is.

You have to view Funimation's dub as not a like-for-like transliteration of Dragonball Z from Japanese to English but instead an adaptation to cater for a Western audience/market place. Funimation wanted to convey the show in the most understandable and recognisable format for the young American demographic they were targeting, which is unfortunately lost on, or occasionally found to be sacrilege, by fans of the show who are used to the original.

Excuse the expression but it is what it is and it does what it does - both rather successfully in terms of generating popularity and garnering a wide audience, actually.

I certainly don't think that any offense was meant or should be taken.

[Adamant]

In all fairness, FUNimation's Dragon Ball Z Dub is far from the worst when in comparison to the dubs in the European continent that used AB Groupe's shitty dialogue.

Why, exactly? The "shitty dialogue" from the AB Groupe dub is not only a lot more accurate to the original than FUNi's... thing, but the fact that it's written in rather unnatural English and not particularly well acted wouldn't have any effect on a translation done from them.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Worst dub? Nah. Not even close. It could have done some stuff better--which, for the most part, they did in the Kai dub--but I wouldn't call it the worst dub. Much earlier in my fandom, I was initially led to believe that only the FUNimation dub was bad and that every other dub was stellar....and, as it turns out, that's not the case.

Besides, despite the horrific first impression that "Season 3" left in the minds of many fans, it's not as though the dub stayed at that level of quality. I've said before, and I'll say it again, that while I would have preferred that the dub of DBZ was done as well as the Kai dub from the beginning, I do think it's cool that the FUNimation dub of DBZ started off not-so-good and then got much better as time went on. That means that FUNimation cared, and that they listened. One has to respect that when there are other dubs, like the 4Kids dub of "One Piece," where the producers clearly didn't listen.

[ABED]

I buy that FUNi thought they were catering to their demo by loading it up with bad dialog and horrible jokes, but I don't buy that those things actually increased interest in the show for American viewers. Unfortunately there's no alternate universe to point to and see what would have happened had they ben more accurate. Given how ridiculous many executives in the movie and TV industry are, it's not hard to reach the conclusion that they did what they did based on false assumptions.

DBZ's popularity is less a testament to FUNi's tampering than it is to the enduring appeal of the show. It was a world wide success, but somehow we're supposed to believe that the show wouldn't appeal to kids unless Kuririn said "Mondo Cool" which was already at least 10 years out of date by 1999, that kids wouldn't like the show. It has monsters and aliens and lazers and fights and cool animation. Of course it will appeal to them.

[Ryuji-Otogi]

It is not its inaccurate script but its "we made it funnier and better" like self-indulgent feeling what makes it so bad. "Modifying" the script works only when the original is full of flaws or simply boring, but it is unneeded and can be very rude to the original creators if the show is well made and enjoyable as-is.

You have to view Funimation's dub as not a like-for-like transliteration of Dragonball Z from Japanese to English but instead an adaptation to cater for a Western audience/market place. Funimation wanted to convey the show in the most understandable and recognisable format for the young American demographic they were targeting, which is unfortunately lost on, or occasionally found to be sacrilege, by fans of the show who are used to the original.

Excuse the expression but it is what it is and it does what it does - both rather successfully in terms of generating popularity and garnering a wide audience, actually.

I certainly don't think that any offense was meant or should be taken.

Retaining the original music score and having an accurate script are held as a standard by all anime fans where dubs are concerned, not just DBZ. Nothing wrong with that. Changing shows a lot just so 'Western audiences' can enjoy them is from a different time. Or 4K!Ds now.

[ABED]

It is from a different time, but there was also a time when Mexicans played Indians (from india, not American indians). I'm sure they simply underestimated their audience back then. Are today's kids' attentions spans greater than they were 15 years ago?

[samuraix123]

No, But a-lot of people sure act like it. I've actually read people say that they hate the Dub so much that they wished that Dragonball was never released in the US. I wish that would happen (Not to people like me and other fans) but for someone that talks nonsense like that should get their wish honored. They'd get nothing! No DVDs, Games, Kai, Anything! the only way they could get anything is import it. I can be evil at times too! This is by far the worst http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGnCSGkLC-g

[matt0044]

Not the worst dub but it has a lot of problem? Though it's nothing compared to others.

[Blade]

It is not its inaccurate script but its "we made it funnier and better" like self-indulgent feeling what makes it so bad. "Modifying" the script works only when the original is full of flaws or simply boring, but it is unneeded and can be very rude to the original creators if the show is well made and enjoyable as-is.

You have to view Funimation's dub as not a like-for-like transliteration of Dragonball Z from Japanese to English but instead an adaptation to cater for a Western audience/market place. Funimation wanted to convey the show in the most understandable and recognisable format for the young American demographic they were targeting, which is unfortunately lost on, or occasionally found to be sacrilege, by fans of the show who are used to the original.

Excuse the expression but it is what it is and it does what it does - both rather successfully in terms of generating popularity and garnering a wide audience, actually.

I certainly don't think that any offense was meant or should be taken.

Retaining the original music score and having an accurate script are held as a standard by all anime fans where dubs are concerned, not just DBZ. Nothing wrong with that. Changing shows a lot just so 'Western audiences' can enjoy them is from a different time. Or 4K!Ds now.

Kickuchi's Dragonball Z's score shows its age and did at the time that Funimation were dubbing the series, their choice to re-score it had something to do with freshening up and modernising the series. Modern anime dubs often keep the original score for two reasons: the music doesn't sound as dated or, the more likely of the two, they don't have the production budget to produce their own. For example: Kai using the Japanese score was entirely for budgetary reasons, there quite simply isn't the money available now that there was then.

Furthermore, the Faulconer production score was, in the words of Bruce himself, produced under a direct mandate to 'cater for a Western audience, ergo marketplace'. This is a lot more than just changing the music - the Faulconer score is entirely expressive of different themes and contains codified messages and symbolism that Western audiences can understand and identify more closely with. Notions of heroism and other themes that young male demographics tend to identify heavily with are interjected into Dragonball Z by Faulconer's score where they do not occur in either the Japanese dialogue or score. This is entirely intentional in Funimation's adaptation and it would appear by the millions of ten year old kids who bought into the idea during the Dragonball Z boom in North America that it was rather effective. If you happen to be interested I've actually written an academic paper on the very subject.

Funimation's adaptation was not meant disrespectfully and shouldn't be taken that way. Of course, hardcore fans who hold dear the original as sacred are always going to find issue with the changes - but like I mentioned previously, it's not a literal transliteration, it's an adaptation.

[ABED]

Funi has more money now than it did then. The point of Kai's dub is to keep it as accurate as they deem possible. I don't know if Kikuchi's score sounds dated, or if Faulconer's sounds contemporary, regardless, Kikuchi's score fits the tone of the show like a glove.

I don't buy that Western kids can't get the stories or the themes of DBZ. They aren't that sophisticated. Your point that DBZ did appeal to western audiences is proof that what FUNi did was the right call is ad hoc ergo propter hoc.

[samuraix123]

I'm definitely interested in reading it Blade.

[Blade]

Funi has more money now than it did then. The point of Kai's dub is to keep it as accurate as they deem possible. I don't know if Kikuchi's score sounds dated, or if Faulconer's sounds contemporary, regardless, Kikuchi's score fits the tone of the show like a glove.

I don't buy that Western kids can't get the stories or the themes of DBZ. They aren't that sophisticated.

It's not the point whether they can or they can't, and I'm not saying Funimation were right to make the changes they did, but I do think that it's not correct to label their version of Dragonball Z as being bad simply on the grounds that they did make the changes. If the sole defining criterion of what makes a 'good dub' is purely how complete and utterly faithful it is to the original then you could make a case for it being amongst the worst, but I don't think that's the only factor that we should be concerned with. The Funimation dub should be viewed as a post-modern adaptation at best.

[ABED]

I didn't say it was bad because they changed things, it's bad because the changes were bad. The dialog was infantile and out of date. The music was droning and lifeless and didn't get the tone of the show, and the writers didn't understand the characters or story they were adapting.

[Blade]

I didn't say it was bad because they changed things, it's bad because the changes were bad. The dialog was infantile and out of date. The music was droning and lifeless and didn't get the tone of the show, and the writers didn't understand the characters or story they were adapting.

I don't think at all that it was that they didn't understand the characters or story, but that instead they wanted to interject their own material as to create their own version for the aforementioned reasons. As such, this is exactly why Funimation's dub should be viewed as an adaptation as opposed to a faithful English-language translation, the two are entirely different things and there was simply no or little intent on Funimation's part in producing the latter.

Kai on the other hand is a different case, where Funimation's target audience is less-so a young demographic to capture and more-so the existing fans who they can sell a DVD box set to.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Modern anime dubs often keep the original score for two reasons: the music doesn't sound as dated or, the more likely of the two, they don't have the production budget to produce their own.

From an artistic perspective, I always side with using the original music, but from a financial perspective, I always wondered whether it was more cost-effective to use the existing soundtrack or to compose a new one. I've heard a couple different answers, but it seems that the most consistent answer among industry insiders is that it's actually cheaper to produce a new score. Yes, there's still money involved, but FUNimation CEO Gen Fukunaga said in a (rather blatantly honest) interview that by producing their own soundtrack, they can charge royalties literally for every second of the music's usage. I've also heard a 4Kids executive say that, when licensing an anime, if they agree not to use the original soundtrack, they can license the anime for a reduced fee.

Between that and the fact that it's apparently cheaper to compose a new score, I think the original score was kept in the Kai dub not because of budget reasons, but because the people in charge now (who weren't the people in charge when DBZ was being dubbed) just wanted to be more faithful to the original version.

[ABED]

I don't think at all that it was that they didn't understand the characters or story, but that instead they wanted to interject their own material as to create their own version for the aforementioned reasons. As such, this is exactly why Funimation's dub should be viewed as an adaptation as opposed to a faithful English-language translation, the two are entirely different things and there was simply no or little intent on Funimation's part in producing the latter.

Kai on the other hand is a different case, where Funimation's target audience is less-so a young demographic to capture and more-so the existing fans who they can sell a DVD box set to.

If that was the case, then why broadcast Kai on Nicktoons?

Also, if they understood it, why would we get "your father was a brillaint scientist"?

It's a bad adaptation. They may have thought they were adapting it for young kids but I think they underestimated the intelligence of their audience.

Why purchase the rights to something if you are going to make such significant deviations?

[sangofe]

In all fairness, FUNimation's Dragon Ball Z Dub is far from the worst when in comparison to the dubs in the European continent that used AB Groupe's shitty dialogue.

Why, exactly? The "shitty dialogue" from the AB Groupe dub is not only a lot more accurate to the original than FUNi's... thing, but the fact that it's written in rather unnatural English and not particularly well acted wouldn't have any effect on a translation done from them.

And the translation quality for AB's french dub at least varies a lot. Some episodes are really nice (most of DB is quite all right), while others are awful.