It's not a contradiction it's a plot twist/ surprise.
Wiss>Bills>all of Z
Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
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miguelnuva1
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Super Saiyan God Goku is implied to be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto, so Beers is stronger than Vegetto. Why is it so difficult to accept this?hleV wrote:Yeah. If they they say that Beerus is the strongest guy in the history of Z while it's obvious that Whis is stronger, I don't see why can't that apply to Vegetto as well. Perhaps they meant strongest foe, as Whis isn't technically a foe (and neither is Vegetto).TheGmGoken wrote:Wait that's a plot hole for Birshu being the strongest being in Dbz. If I'm correct Whis > Bills.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
I Judging from Herms' posts, Whis being stronger than Beers isn't total fact anyway. Beers never makes such a claim, just says he's stronger than Goku. Goku does say "the strongest in the universe must be..." [Whis] which is where I guess everyone is getting Whis > Beers from, but I wouldn't be so quick to take that as trufax.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
From an out-of-universe point, I doubt the writers would have Goku say that if it wasn't true.Saiga wrote:I Judging from Herms' posts, Whis being stronger than Beers isn't total fact anyway. Beers never makes such a claim, just says he's stronger than Goku. Goku does say "the strongest in the universe must be..." [Whis] which is where I guess everyone is getting Whis > Beers from, but I wouldn't be so quick to take that as trufax.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
I doubt the writers would have put much thought into it.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:From an out-of-universe point, I doubt the writers would have Goku say that if it wasn't true.Saiga wrote:I Judging from Herms' posts, Whis being stronger than Beers isn't total fact anyway. Beers never makes such a claim, just says he's stronger than Goku. Goku does say "the strongest in the universe must be..." [Whis] which is where I guess everyone is getting Whis > Beers from, but I wouldn't be so quick to take that as trufax.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Manga is not even Z.TheGmGoken wrote:It's a continuation of the manga so it's apart of Z's history as well.
The statement that Beerus is the strongest in Z is contradictory, so I don't trust it. Just the same way I don't trust parts of Toei movies that don't contradict the original series.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Super Saiyan God Goku is implied to be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto, so Beers is stronger than Vegetto. Why is it so difficult to accept this?
Last edited by hleV on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Why?Saiga wrote:I doubt the writers would have put much thought into it.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
I don't see any reason why they would.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Why?Saiga wrote:I doubt the writers would have put much thought into it.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
And I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. They had Goku saying that the real strongest in the universe is... (Whis), so they wanted to pass the message that Whis is the real strongest in the universe, not Beers.Saiga wrote:I don't see any reason why they would.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Why?Saiga wrote:I doubt the writers would have put much thought into it.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Because it seems that not a lot of thought went into anything else. And this is in-universe discussion, anyway... my point was that Whis > Beers isn't incontestable fact.DBZGTKOSDH wrote: And I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. They had Goku saying that the real strongest in the universe is... (Whis), so they wanted to pass the message that Whis is the real strongest in the universe, not Beers.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Examples?Saiga wrote:Because it seems that not a lot of thought went into anything else.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Timeline hiccups, "Super Saiyan Gohan won't be in this move" -> Super Saiyan Gohan is in the movie, "Fuck tension, let's just stuff it with gags!", Kaio's planet out of fucking nowhere, other plotholes, etc.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Examples?Saiga wrote:Because it seems that not a lot of thought went into anything else.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Super Vegetto is 99.999...% of Billy's strength.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Billy is implied to be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.Rocketman wrote:Super Vegetto is 99.999...% of Billy's strength.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
I don't think that's implied anywhere. Yeah Goku said he didn't think such power could exist with SSJ God but then Vegetto isn't a natural power. I have Beers, Whis, and SSJ God Goku above SSJ3 Vegetto, sure, but there is nothing that states it has to be that way.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Billy is implied to be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.Rocketman wrote:Super Vegetto is 99.999...% of Billy's strength.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Goku couldn't believe that such a realm of power existed, he doesn't say that he never imagined he could become so strong. He should be able to have an estimate for Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Goku can't do mathDBZGTKOSDH wrote:Goku couldn't believe that such a realm of power existed, he doesn't say that he never imagined he could become so strong. He should be able to have an estimate for Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.
. What is his exact line though. That could shed some light on things.Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
If Goku can estimate Super Saiyan Gotenks' power, then he can estimate Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto's power as well.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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The Monkey King
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
I wonder why Vegito wasn't even considered to fight Birusu? 
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?
Well A I think the last of the Potara earrings were crushed by Vegeta and Goku. B Vegeta would never ever agree to using the Potara again so there is no point in suggesting it. Also seeing as how there would be very few times where it could be suggest in the movie, since the main focus was on SSJ God, I can see why it's not even brought up.The Monkey King wrote:I wonder why Vegito wasn't even considered to fight Birusu?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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