Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Cardle grave
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by Cardle grave » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:03 am
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Cardle grave wrote:TheMightyOzaru wrote:Because he was stronger than his movie 8 self.... That was kinda the point. He said he has gotten stronger since their last encounter....
He was confident in doing better then his SSj in movie 8 even though he knows that SSJ broly M10=LSSJ broly M8. And his Base>>SSj kids
His gotten stronger, A lot stronger
Going by Movie 10
base gohan>>SSj kids
Going by Manga
SSj gohan=>SSj goten>>>base gohan=>Base goten
Cell Games Gohan IS a lot stronger than Movie 8 Gohan....
And clearly Movie 10 Gohan>>Cell games gohan. Since his base is stronger then SSJ trunks and Goten
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jvarZBPJtw
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:06 am
Again: so you believe Cooler is Perfect Cell tier, and that Metal Cooler is well into the SS3 tier?
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Cardle grave
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by Cardle grave » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:06 am
RandomGuy96 wrote:Again: so you believe Cooler is Perfect Cell tier, and that Metal Cooler is well into the SS3 tier?
Why the hell would they be put there ?
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Kamiccolo9
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by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:07 am
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Cardle grave wrote:TheMightyOzaru wrote:Because he was stronger than his movie 8 self.... That was kinda the point. He said he has gotten
Cell Games Gohan IS a lot stronger than Movie 8 Gohan....
This is my problem with applying manga logic to the movies. In-universe, since Movie 8 is supposed to be set in the 10 days before the Cell Games, Gohan should be just as strong in M8 as he is when he starts fighting Cell. Yet he's not. So Gohan is nerfed in movie 8.
Movie 10, which is the sequel of movie 8, has Gohan saying that he's gotten a lot stronger. But since he's basing this off his movie 8 power, which is nerfed from his manga/anime power,we don't know how strong he is. He could be as strong as he was at the Cell Games, as strong as he was in the Buu Arc, or as strong as Toei wants him to be, since that's what they did with him in M8. This is why I treat the movies as independent from the anime and the manga.
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TheMightyOzaru
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by TheMightyOzaru » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:09 am
Yeah no. More skilled. Not stronger.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:09 am
Cardle grave wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:Again: so you believe Cooler is Perfect Cell tier, and that Metal Cooler is well into the SS3 tier?
Why the hell would they be put there ?
In Battle of the Gods, Bills directly says that base Goku can't beat Freeza. In Movie 5, Cooler directly says that he can. Then he shows that he's not far off from SS Goku. Movie 5 SS Goku > Cooler >= post-Buu Saga SS Goku.
Furthermore, when Goku first sees Metal Cooler, Metal Cooler says that Goku's powered up a lot, but says that he's also powered up a lot. So Goku proceeds to attack him in BASE, confident that he'll win, and gets surprised when it doesn't work, despite already knowing that Metal Cooler would be at least on par with his Movie 5 SS self...
Metal Cooler >>> SS Movie 6 Goku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SS3 Buu Saga Goku > base Movie 6 Goku > Movie 5 SS Goku > Buu Saga SS Goku
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Cardle grave
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by Cardle grave » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:11 am
RandomGuy96 wrote:Cardle grave wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:Again: so you believe Cooler is Perfect Cell tier, and that Metal Cooler is well into the SS3 tier?
Why the hell would they be put there ?
In Battle of the Gods, Bills directly says that base Goku can't beat Freeza. In Movie 5, Cooler directly says that he can. Then he shows that he's not far off from SS Goku. Movie 5 SS Goku > Cooler >= post-Buu Saga SS Goku.
Furthermore, when Goku first sees Metal Cooler, Metal Cooler says that Goku's powered up a lot, but says that he's also powered up a lot. So Goku proceeds to attack him in BASE, confident that he'll win, and gets surprised when it doesn't work.
Metal Cooler >>> SS Movie 6 Goku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SS3 Goku > base Movie 6 Goku > Buu Saga SS Goku
Your comparing Canon to Non Canon -.-
Battle of gods is plain Wrong, Really it is even movie 12 and Fillers Completely shatters to this. Pikkon punches knocked out freeza and base goku cell games was able to do well against him.
Last edited by
Cardle grave on Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cardle grave
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by Cardle grave » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:13 am
TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Yeah no. More skilled. Not stronger.
Really then why did Broly dodge his punch and ki blast and tank boy of the boys silly. What else do you want to add ?
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TheMightyOzaru
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by TheMightyOzaru » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:13 am
Battle of Gods is above filler. It's seen as part of the official history after all.
Cardle grave wrote:TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Yeah no. More skilled. Not stronger.
Really then why did Broly dodge his punch and ki blast and tank boy of the boys silly. What else do you want to add ?
If your implying Broly has to dodge the punch you're implying that base Gohan is close to SSJ Broly in power which too is laughable.
Last edited by
TheMightyOzaru on Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Cardle grave
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by Cardle grave » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:14 am
Then why compare it to Movies then, BOG is wrong but i have to agree with it since it official but its wrong and beyond
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:16 am
Your comparing Canon to Non Canon -.-
Battle of gods is plain Wrong, Really it is even movie 12 and Fillers Completely shatters to this. Paikuhan punches knocked out freeza and base goku cell games was able to do well against him.
Then what are you doing?
Using your logic, I just proved Metal Cooler is probably around Vegetto's level and could one-shot Broly.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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TheMightyOzaru
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by TheMightyOzaru » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:16 am
Cardle grave wrote:Then why compare it to Movies then, BOG is wrong but i have to agree with it since it official but its wrong and beyond
It's not wrong...
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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miguelnuva1
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by miguelnuva1 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:20 am
I am about 99% sure that Cardle grave is my old firend Ryder from the DBZF.UK boards now based on his Broly argument.
To anyone reading this don't continue any Broly arguments with him because it won't change his view. He and I went back and forth for like a month on the other boards and decided to call a cease fire on all things Broly.
I think it's best to create a high feats Broly and a Low feats Broly and call it a day.
As for Movie 5
I'm going to assume that Cooler is suppressed and he thinks Goku caught Frieza off guard and beat him in hist surpassed final form.
It works much better then saying Goku goes from 3,000,000 to over 120,000,000 with a year of training and a Zenkai.
As for BOG
Either Goku was suppressed when Bills read his power or 18 was suppressed and the boys aren't her level. I have seen powers levels work where the saiyans are under Frieza in base and I have seen some that work with them way over him.
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Draken
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by Draken » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:28 am
miguelnuva1 wrote:I am about 99% sure that Cardle grave is my old firend Ryder from the DBZF.UK boards now based on his Broly argument.
To anyone reading this don't continue any Broly arguments with him because it won't change his view. He and I went back and forth for like a month on the other boards and decided to call a cease fire on all things Broly.
I think it's best to create a high feats Broly and a Low feats Broly and call it a day.
As for Movie 5
I'm going to assume that Cooler is suppressed and he thinks Goku caught Freeza off guard and beat him in hist surpassed final form.
It works much better then saying Goku goes from 3,000,000 to over 120,000,000 with a year of training and a Zenkai.
As for BOG
Either Goku was suppressed when Bills read his power or 18 was suppressed and the boys aren't her level. I have seen powers levels work where the saiyans are under Freeza in base and I have seen some that work with them way over him.
Implied 18 to be suppressed. I'm sure Beers being a high GoD could gauge his real strength. If Ginyu back in the Namek Saga could do it better than normal fighters Beers as an experienced *probably* thousands of years old god should do it better than him. 18 thought she was fighting a human. A strong human yea, but still a human. Wouldn't risk killing that human and lose money.
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Cardle grave
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by Cardle grave » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:46 am
Really then why did Broly dodge his punch and ki blast and tank boy of the boys silly. What else do you want to add ?[/quote]
If your implying Broly has to dodge the punch you're implying that base Gohan is close to SSJ Broly in power which too is laughable.[/quote]
I never said that. I am just saying his base>the SSJ kids which is shown. And while the kids got shits stomped and tanked he actually tried with gohan. Hell i even think he powered up in SSJ to. And Freeza>base saiyan is wrong and beyond. Since Base vegeta was confident in Winning the whole budokai without SSJ. And also i dont see how it relates to what where talking about. broly is non cannon, BOG is Canon (supposedly). Its already shown in Non Cannon that freeza is one hot material to base saiyan.
And RandomGuy96, Your point makes no sense. Canon to Non canon don't match
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:50 am
First of all, if we can have Dende as Kami in Movie 6 (which was released long before Dende became Kami in the manga), then we can have Super Saiyan 2 Goku in Movie 10.
Secondly, Gohan couldn't damage Broli at all. All he could do was push him one step further, and break a hold.
Thirdly, Goku's hair where standing up, but not Goten's, which is why I believe that Goku was a Super Saiyan 2. As for Gohan, his hair also became like his Super Saiyan 2 hair. Also a Super Saiyan 2.
Finally, it makes me wonder why would Super Saiyan 3 Goku would need Paikuhan's help against Broli in Movie 11... Could it be that Broli is around Super Saiyan 3 Goku's level?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Kid Buu
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by Kid Buu » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:56 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Finally, it makes me wonder why would Super Saiyan 3 Goku would need Paikuhan's help against Broli in Movie 11... Could it be that Broli is around Super Saiyan 3 Goku's level?
I thought Goku said in Movie 12 that Jamenba was the only person besides Majin Buu to make him use SSJ3?
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:57 am
I only recall him saying that he is stronger than Majin Boo.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Kid Buu
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by Kid Buu » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:00 am
I don't have the film, but can anyone deliver the quote to when he first turns SSJ3? I know for fact he says that in the dub, but not sure about the sub.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
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miguelnuva1
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by miguelnuva1 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:14 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:First of all, if we can have Dende as Kami in Movie 6 (which was released long before Dende became Kami in the manga), then we can have Super Saiyan 2 Goku in Movie 10.
Dende as kami is still debatable as Piccolo was not at his fused with Kami level in the movie. Dende is most likely there as a plot element.
And Goku does say only Majin Buu has made me go SSJ3 in battle but M11 and m12 are different universes.
