So is Battle of the Gods confirmed canon?

[demonmist606]

Sorry that I am so late on this and sorry if there has been other threads on this. But I have been hearing that's been confirmed canon. Was it confirmed by just Toie or was it confirmed in the Weekly Shounen Jump? Did Toriyama say it was Canon?

Please no spoilers. I haven't seen it yet.

[Insertclevername]

No one at Toei, Shueisha or Akira Toriyama himself has ever said anything was "canon" concerning Dragon Ball. There was a comment saying Battle of Gods is a "part of the official history" but that's pretty vague. Make of it as you will.

[sintzu]

Everyone has a different view on what's canonical cause no one at Toei or Toriyama has ever said this is and that's not.

To me the only canon is the manga and everything else (is a) side story.

[VegettoEX]

This recent thread (specifically my posts ) should be helpful.

Short answer? Maybe. Long answer? Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe......?

[miguelnuva1]

AT saI'd it was not a side story but a new adventure.

[VegettoEX]

AT saI'd it was not a side story but a new adventure.

Toriyama himself didn't say that. It was Toei's press release about the movie (and if you want to get real technical, it likely came from the pen of Masaru Tsuchiya, the publicity producer for the movie) that said:

A new story in the official history of Dragon Ball is born, neither a spin-off nor a side-story, one that can be enjoyed by both children and parents, manga fans and anime fans.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Whenever I read Toriyama talking about talking about the movie it seems to me that he accepts it as the official history of DB. Could just be me though.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It's been confirmed that it's part of the official history. IMO, if that's not canon I don't know what is.

[VegettoEX]

It's been confirmed that it's part of the official history. IMO, if that's not canon I don't know what is.

Sure, but then you get into real technical definitions of things. More than that, you get into "Well, does the original author consider it canonical?"

This stuff is super-granular, and everyone's entitled to think about it differently. For some, if Toriyama does not come right out and use the word "canonical", it never will be to them. That's OK.

Who does it take to confirm it? Any person in particular, or just "Toei" as a whole entity? Does it take Watanabe? Yamamuro? Toriyama?

[demonmist606]

Everyone has a different view on what's canonical cause no one at Toei or Toriyama has ever said this is and that's not.

To me the only canon is the manga and everything else (is a) side story.

I would say any story that the original author had something to do with should be canon. I don't see why there has to be manga about it if he is involved. How deep was Toriyama's involvement in this movie? He had something to do with writing it right?

[demonmist606]

Whenever I read Toriyama talking about talking about the movie it seems to me that he accepts it as the official history of DB. Could just be me though.

Just this movie or movies in general? Which interview(s)?

[VegettoEX]

I would say any story that the original author had something to do with should be canon. How deep was Toriyama's involvement in this movie? He had something to do with writing it right?

Well, Toriyama had "something to do" with lots of external projects. He did character designs for a lot of the original 13 DBZ Movies. He came up with the concept for the Jump Super Anime Tour special in 2008. He designed Chilled for Episode of Bardock. He even tossed ideas out there for Evolution (which were apparently ignored, but still...).

That's why I say it's so granular. To what extent does Toriyama's involvement have to be before you start talking canonicity?

Toriyama's involvement with Battle of Gods is detailed pretty heavily through our respective page in the "Movie Guide", which itself pulls from a lot of stuff we have translated from interviews, appearances, etc.

You say you don't want to be spoiled, but without knowing how much you already know about the movie and its story, its a little tough to tell you about his involvement on certain things. For example, Toriyama basically ended up writing a draft of dialog/script for the movie, but the final script itself was still handled by the actual scriptwriter, Yusuke Watanabe. The original character design for the main villain that was drawn by Tadayoshi Yamamuro was tossed out and redone from scratch by Toriyama, but he still wasn't the actual character designer for everyone in the movie. Before any of that, though, there were core concepts that were brought to the table for the movie (which are still there) that Toriyama had nothing to do with, and since the movie basically revolves around those concepts (which he had nothing to do with)... well...

There's really no such thing as "Toriyama did it!" anymore like it was back with the manga, where it was he alone writing it and drawing it (and even then still taking ideas from colleagues and having support staff do things like backgrounds). So again: Granual. Extent. Personal interpretation. Stuff.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Whenever I read Toriyama talking about talking about the movie it seems to me that he accepts it as the official history of DB. Could just be me though.

Just this movie or movies in general? Which interview(s)?

Just this movie, and just what I've read on the Kanzenshuu translations, though the full colour Freeza Arc Q&A is really good.

[demonmist606]

I would say any story that the original author had something to do with should be canon. How deep was Toriyama's involvement in this movie? He had something to do with writing it right?

Well, Toriyama had "something to do" with lots of external projects. He did character designs for a lot of the original 13 DBZ Movies. He came up with the concept for the Jump Super Anime Tour special in 2008. He designed Chilled for Episode of Bardock. He even tossed ideas out there for Evolution (which were apparently ignored, but still...).

That's why I say it's so granular. To what extent does Toriyama's involvement have to be before you start talking canonicity?

Toriyama's involvement with Battle of Gods is detailed pretty heavily through our respective page in the "Movie Guide", which itself pulls from a lot of stuff we have translated from interviews, appearances, etc.

You say you don't want to be spoiled, but without knowing how much you already know about the movie and its story, its a little tough to tell you about his involvement on certain things. For example, Toriyama basically ended up writing a draft of dialog/script for the movie, but the final script itself was still handled by the actual scriptwriter, Yusuke Watanabe. The original character design for the main villain that was drawn by Tadayoshi Yamamuro was tossed out and redone from scratch by Toriyama, but he still wasn't the actual character designer for everyone in the movie. Before any of that, though, there were core concepts that were brought to the table for the movie (which are still there) that Toriyama had nothing to do with, and since the movie basically revolves around those concepts (which he had nothing to do with)... well...

There's really no such thing as "Toriyama did it!" anymore like it was back with the manga, where it was he alone writing it and drawing it (and even then still taking ideas from colleagues and having support staff do things like backgrounds). So again: Granual. Extent. Personal interpretation. Stuff.

I just want to know if he is involved in the plot of the movie. That's good enough for me really.

Also that statement about it being an official part of DB history, was that just by Toie? Or was that stated in the Shounen Jump or other places as well?

[VegettoEX]

I just want to know if he is involved in the plot of the movie. That's good enough for me really.

Yeah, but I'd caution you just by saying there was already a plot written before it was brought to Toriyama. He changed SOME stuff about it, but he didn't come up with the concept itself. Whether or not you care about that extent, though, again: totally up to you.

Also that statement about it being an official part of DB history, was that just by Toie? Or was that stated in the Shounen Jump or other places as well?

As far as I can tell, it's only been written in their press release, though the statement has been picked up by plenty of news/press organizations in their own writing about the movie (which, honestly though, just parrot the press release back out to their readers). Curious why it would matter, though. Would it hold more water if the exact same statement was published elsewhere, even though it was the same person/entity/company saying the exact same thing? Does repetition bring validity?

I honestly can't care much less, but I find it fascinating learning from those who do .

[sintzu]

Everyone has a different view on what's canonical cause no one at Toei or Toriyama has ever said this is and that's not.

To me the only canon is the manga and everything else (is a) side story.

I would say any story that the original author had something to do with should be canon.

Toriyama had something to do with everything (movies, GT, filler, OVAs), so do you think all of those should be (considered) canonical?

[demonmist606]

I just want to know if he is involved in the plot of the movie. That's good enough for me really.

Yeah, but I'd caution you just by saying there was already a plot written before it was brought to Toriyama. He changed SOME stuff about it, but he didn't come up with the concept itself. Whether or not you care about that extent, though, again: totally up to you.

Also that statement about it being an official part of DB history, was that just by Toie? Or was that stated in the Shounen Jump or other places as well?

As far as I can tell, it's only been written in their press release, though the statement has been picked up by plenty of news/press organizations in their own writing about the movie (which, honestly though, just parrot the press release back out to their readers). Curious why it would matter, though. Would it hold more water if the exact same statement was published elsewhere, even though it was the same person/entity/company saying the exact same thing? Does repetition bring validity?

I honestly can't care much less, but I find it fascinating learning from those who do .

No reason really just curious. To be honest I don't really have a problem with anything considering what Toie created as canon either. I mean nobody goes around talking about whether anything that wasn't created by Jerry Seigel and Joe Shuster (creators of Superman) is canon or not. The character of Superman belongs DC Comics and everybody is ok with what DC writes in the universe that they follow as canon and with everything else falling in an alternative universe. I don't see why that doesn't apply to Dragon Ball. Toie owns Dragon Ball now and anything they put it can be counted as canon really.

Just wanted to make sure since Toie said it counts as an official story, if that means that they only consider what Toriyama wrote and this movie as the main story of the DB and everything else falling in an alternative universe. I guess I really need to watch the movie to find out the alternative universe theory.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I would say any story that the original author had something to do with should be canon.

The thing is, Toriyama has been involved in almost all areas of the anime, though not as heavily as with BoG. Toriyama has also designed the new Mecha Freeza from the Super Dragon Ball Z video game, he is heavily involved with Dragon Ball Online (has a great deal of creative control over the project, both contributing to and supervising the story and art design, including character and location arrangements, and it has been stated that Toriyama has worked on character designs for this project for over five years), and he designed Chilled for Episode of Bardock, not to mention that he is a supervisor of almost everything.

Personally? I go by the manga (Kanzenban & Full Color/Colored Edition), its spin-offs (manga versions of EoB & JSAT), the projects that Toriyama is heavily involved (BoG, DBO), the related Toriyama manga (Dr. Slump, the Abale-chan one shot, Neko Majin), and the related guidebooks (Daizenshuu 2, 4 & 7(excluding anime-only stuff)/Chozenshuu 1 & 4(excluding anime-only stuff), SEG, Kanzenban Official Guides, Adventure Special, BoG guide, DBO guide).

He changed SOME stuff about it, but he didn't come up with the concept itself.

Some? He changed almost everything!

[demonmist606]

Everyone has a different view on what's canonical cause no one at Toei or Toriyama has ever said this is and that's not.

To me the only canon is the manga and everything else (is a) side story.

I would say any story that the original author had something to do with should be canon.

Toriyama had something to do with everything (movies, GT, filler, OVAs), so do you think all of those should be (considered) canonical?

That's why I said story. As far as I am aware he had nothing to do with the story in any of those. At least that's what I heard.

[VegettoEX]

Some? He changed almost everything!

I'm talking rough, larger concepts here, like "God of Destruction" and "Super Saiyan God". He didn't come up with those himself.