Happy Father's Day! Japanese Fans Vote Goku as Coolest Dad!

[ABED]

They're pretty forgiving in general. Yamcha forgave Tenshinhan far too easily for maliciously breaking his leg.

[Gaffer Tape]

As I said before, the main cast were quite forgiving for his actions, even though he would be their equivalent of serial killers.

Well... okay... but I wasn't arguing that the cast didn't forgive him too easily. I'm just saying he's a mass-murdering psychopath. If the cast chooses to overlook that, that still doesn't alter whether or not he is.

[Hades]

They're pretty forgiving in general. Yamcha forgave Tenshinhan far too easily for maliciously breaking his leg.

That's one thing, but on the other hand, you have someone saying "oh hi! I come from a culture where the likes of Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer would fit in nicely. Mind if I stay with Bulma for a while?", and even though they know who he is and what he's like, they're like "yeah, sure thing". It's just something I never understood.

[Kamiccolo9]

They're pretty forgiving in general. Yamcha forgave Tenshinhan far too easily for maliciously breaking his leg.

That's one thing, but on the other hand, you have someone saying "oh hi! I come from a culture where the likes of Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer would fit in nicely. Mind if I stay with Bulma for a while?", and even though they know who he is and what he's like, they're like "yeah, sure thing". It's just something I never understood.

What exactly were they supposed to do about it?

[Hades]

They're pretty forgiving in general. Yamcha forgave Tenshinhan far too easily for maliciously breaking his leg.

That's one thing, but on the other hand, you have someone saying "oh hi! I come from a culture where the likes of Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer would fit in nicely. Mind if I stay with Bulma for a while?", and even though they know who he is and what he's like, they're like "yeah, sure thing". It's just something I never understood.

What exactly were they supposed to do about it?

they could have said "we may not win, but we'll make you suffer if you try to do anything here." Vegeta could have weighed it up, and think going to Earth wouldn't be the effort.

[Kamiccolo9]

they could have said "we may not win, but we'll make you suffer if you try to do anything here." Vegeta could have weighed it up, and think going to Earth wouldn't be the effort.

I imagine that they were thinking "We'd better keep this guy happy so he won't blow up the planet." Vegeta was much, much stronger than anyone else there.

[ABED]

They're pretty forgiving in general. Yamcha forgave Tenshinhan far too easily for maliciously breaking his leg.

That's one thing, but on the other hand, you have someone saying "oh hi! I come from a culture where the likes of Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer would fit in nicely. Mind if I stay with Bulma for a while?", and even though they know who he is and what he's like, they're like "yeah, sure thing". It's just something I never understood.

Even among Saiyan culture I think cannibalism, homosexuality, and serial killers would be looked down upon. Saiyans are warriors. Yeah they are brutal and kill, but they don't kill in quite the same way, but I think I'm splitting hairs.

[DBZAOTA482]

I don't get the sense that Chichi married Goku and got her ideas about what marriage was from tradition. It seems like she saw a bunch of tv shows and magazines that portrayed married life and got her idea of what it was supposed to be.

Chichi's also a bad wife. She's more interested in the idea of being a wife than being with a man she truely loves.

Chichi as a mother was great, she always wanted her son to do well with his studies and succeed in life than be some criminal thug like Piccolo (he used to be a villain).

Although, as a wife it's hard to tell because Goku was never around and we can say firmly she never had an affair.

Wanting your child to do well doesn't make someone a great mother. She seemed like she didn't care about his happiness at all. At 4 he was probably doing math problems that would've gone over my head when I was in 9th grade and she pitched a fit when he took any time off. She was a tiger mom.

Nothing in the manga really implies he was learning stuff that a kid his age shouldn't be learning. Hell, anime filler even implies he's not even near first year highschool level (which is 10th grade in Japan, I presume). Also, the last I checked didn't Gohan enjoy studying? I mean, he never showed any resentment towards it nor did he give any implications that he'd prefer hanging out with Piccolo.

And, no, Vegeta saw the truck there. Vegeta fired a blast in its direction. Vegeta is responsible.

18 could have easily deflected it since she was stronger than Vegeta but chose to jump over it instead. They're both responsible.

[Rocketman]

Even among Saiyan culture I think cannibalism, homosexuality, and serial killers would be looked down upon. Saiyans are warriors. Yeah they are brutal and kill, but they don't kill in quite the same way, but I think I'm splitting hairs.

Uh...?

[ABED]

Even among Saiyan culture I think cannibalism, homosexuality, and serial killers would be looked down upon. Saiyans are warriors. Yeah they are brutal and kill, but they don't kill in quite the same way, but I think I'm splitting hairs.

Uh...?

I wasn't implying that it should, just that it is, and Saiyans don't strike me as a tolerant race. I could've worded it better. I should also add necrophelia to the list because Dahmer was one sick bastard that even the Saiyans would consider wrong.

Nothing in the manga really implies he was learning stuff that a kid his age shouldn't be learning. Hell, anime filler even implies he's not even near first year highschool level (which is 10th grade in Japan, I presume). Also, the last I checked didn't Gohan enjoy studying? I mean, he never showed any resentment towards it nor did he give any implications that he'd prefer hanging out with Piccolo.

What kid prefers studying all day to getting at least some time to play. She pushed him constantly to the point that I can't fathom that he was happy about it at all. She was a tiger mom, and he may not have had lingering resentment (that would be too weighty for Toriyama), he did yell at his mother to let him leave for Namek, meaning there were other things he wanted to do besides study.

Tell me in what way pushing Gohan to study ALL THE TIME makes her in any way a great mother. Moms help their kids along the way and help them achieve happiness. She wasn't pushing Gohan so he'd be happy. She was pushing him so he'd be "successful" but only successful in that hollow, superficial, image driven view of success. She doesn't seem at all concerned about what he wants. I'm pretty sure it was her idea for him to study all the time. Maybe I was off as to how far ahead he was, but he seems like he's further along than most kids that age.

[Rocketman]

"I wanna go on a long dangerous journey to bring the Devil (who killed your husband and kidnapped/beat me) back to life!"

]I wasn't implying that it should, just that it is, and Saiyans don't strike me as a tolerant race.

They don't have to be 'tolerant' to be a-ok with homosexuality. Look at the Spartans.

[ABED]

"I wanna go on a long dangerous journey to bring the Devil (who killed your husband and kidnapped/beat me) back to life!"

]I wasn't implying that it should, just that it is, and Saiyans don't strike me as a tolerant race.

They don't have to be 'tolerant' to be a-ok with homosexuality. Look at the Spartans.

I'm not sure what that means. If they are okay with it, they are tolerant.

18 could have easily deflected it since she was stronger than Vegeta but chose to jump over it instead. They're both responsible.

I doubt any of the good guys would've fired that blast on the off chance it could hit the truck, at the very least they would've shown remorse.

[DBZAOTA482]

Nothing in the manga really implies he was learning stuff that a kid his age shouldn't be learning. Hell, anime filler even implies he's not even near first year highschool level (which is 10th grade in Japan, I presume). Also, the last I checked didn't Gohan enjoy studying? I mean, he never showed any resentment towards it nor did he give any implications that he'd prefer hanging out with Piccolo.

What kid prefers studying all day to getting at least some time to play. She pushed him constantly to the point that I can't fathom that he was happy about it at all. She was a tiger mom, and he may not have had lingering resentment (that would be too weighty for Toriyama), he did yell at his mother to let him leave for Namek, meaning there were other things he wanted to do besides study.

Gohan yelled not because he wanted to get away. He yelled because Chi-Chi said something bad about Piccolo, which angered him (he apologizes for it later). If she really pushed him that hard then Earth goes boom boom bye bye boom by the three Saiyans.

18 could have easily deflected it since she was stronger than Vegeta but chose to jump over it instead. They're both responsible.

I doubt any of the good guys would've fired that blast on the off chance it could hit the truck, at the very least they would've shown remorse.[/quote]
Irrelevant to the point.

[Rocketman]

I'm not sure what that means. If they are okay with it, they are tolerant.

They don't have to be a "tolerant race" in the way we think of tolerance to be fine with homosexuality. The Spartans certainly weren't.

[ABED]

Of course he appologized, he's not a dick, but he was right to yell at her. She was demanding the irrational from him. She didn't give a crap about what Gohan wanted at all. Gohan wanted to help bring his friend and mentor back, but she seemed to care more about his studies. That's all she cared about. Did she ever seem to care about his happiness?

The only reason she didn't push him that hard is because he was no longer a pushover. Gohan had the strength (not merely physical) to stand up for himself.

They don't have to be a "tolerant race" in the way we think of tolerance to be fine with homosexuality. The Spartans certainly weren't.

Still not helpful. I don't know much about the Spartans. And the Saiyans aren't a warrior race in the same way. They didn't strike me as a military race as much as they were just fighters with a loose caste system based on strength. Regardless of whether my point about their views on same sex relationships is correct, I think my other points stand. They were butchers but I don't believe they would stand for cannibalism or necrophelia.

[DBZAOTA482]

Of course he appologized, he's not a dick, but he was right to yell at her. She was demanding the irrational from him. She didn't give a crap about what Gohan wanted at all. Gohan wanted to help bring his friend and mentor back, but she seemed to care more about his studies. That's all she cared about. Did she ever seem to care about his happiness?

The only reason she didn't push him that hard is because he was no longer a pushover. Gohan had the strength (not merely physical) to stand up for himself.

Naturally, Chi-Chi doesn't trust Piccolo at that point of the story. Nobody but Goku and Gohan did. She hasn't seen Gohan for an entire year and didn't know what he was going through for an entire year yet suddenly he tells her he wants to revive the guy's who is literally the spawn of Satan? I don't think it's fair to stay him falling behind was the sole reason but it's definitely a reason.

BTW I'm not talking about the following events. I'm talking about when he was a crybaby 4 year-old, when he and Goku went to Kame House for a get-together.

[Rocketman]

Worth noting that the last time Chichi saw Piccolo, he tried to kill her. And the last time she'd heard of him, he'd killed Goku and kidnapped Gohan.

[ABED]

Worth noting that the last time Chichi saw Piccolo, he tried to kill her. And the last time she'd heard of him, he'd killed Goku and kidnapped Gohan.

Fair enough, but I don't think she would've cared had it been Tenshinhan. If you need any more proof that she's irrational, then look no further than how she treats Goku after the fight against the Saiyans. He's broken and yet she shows no concern for him, even going so far as to claim he got Gohan into that predicament. She shows absolutely no concern for his well being. This is her husband, who she hasn't seen for a year because he was dead and she couldn't care less.

literally the spawn of Satan

You mean figuratively. Piccolo Daimao was the great demon king, not Satan. Again, splitting hairs.

We don't know what Gohan wanted exactly. By all indication, he probably did want to study, but she pushed him to an irrational extreme. That's NOT a great mother.

[Gaffer Tape]

18 could have easily deflected it since she was stronger than Vegeta but chose to jump over it instead. They're both responsible.

I doubt any of the good guys would've fired that blast on the off chance it could hit the truck, at the very least they would've shown remorse.

Irrelevant to the point.

Then, to get down to brass tacks, what exactly is your point? It just seems to me like you're trying to justify Vegeta's actions by blaming someone else. I don't agree with you that #18 is responsible, but even if I did, how would that make Vegeta (again, the man who clearly aimed a fatal blast at the truck with another human life inside and knew that even if it hit its target, it would still kill the guy) LESS responsible? And, once again, despite any extenuating circumstances you can rationalize with, how do his actions here and in the Boo arc make him anything other than a "mass-murdering psychopath," which, to take this back to its beginning, was the phrase you objected to in the first place?

[VyeRo]

I don't think Chichi's a bad mother, or a bad wife, but she can be irrational, especially when she feels her son's life is at stake. I can hardly blame her for that. She has hardly any control over her son and husband when they decide to go out and engage in dangerous situations. I would probably go mad with worry. And I feel like she's trying to compensate for that by pushing Gohan to study. It doesn't help that Chichi is supposed to be a parody of the typical housewife.

Anyway, I don't think anyone is claiming Vegeta is not a mass-murdering psychopath. But I personally think that majin Vegeta at the World Tournament was influenced by Babidi's spell, not to the extent that he lost control of his own mind, more like it brought out his evil and psychopatic side to the surface (a side that never went away but was kept repressed because of his conscience/his family?) so he wouldn't have any qualms about killing all those people. He had nothing to lose (he'd already sold his soul to the devil, including his family) so why the heck shouldn't he go to extreme measures to goad Goku into a fight? The behavior we see here is something we haven't seen from him since Namek, he looked outright insane.