Dragonball novels

[Cyberman]

Oh man, I remember reading a mocking fanfic about Yaoi stories. It was funny as hell. It had Goku and Vegeta in Times Square with the funniest and corniest lines... good thing it was intended unlike some other fics.

BTW Castor Troy I love your avatar.

[Tsukento]

Okay, fanboy moment - I actually have a Kame Gi outfit. It's just pants, two shirts and a belt, but it's pretty awesome. I've never worn it though. It's just a backup - in case I need to dess like Goku at some point.

It's nothing to laught at. I have my Gokuh outfit stowed away somewhere for those especially heroic moments... Seriously, I've been told I make a very hot Gokuh =wink=

I was just kidding anyways, it would be pretty hypcritical of me to judge when I have a similar turtle gi stowed safely away in my closet...

What I wanna know is where the hell you three got Turtle uniforms? Cause now I want one.

[desirecampbell]

Mine's just clothes that resemble the Gi - it's not something I found on eBay or anything. It's just an orange overshirt, orange pants, dark blue undershirt and a belt (not like a lether belt, a gi's belt).

I don't have a blue belt though, I have to settle with white.

[Nekoni]

Why are you all so embarassed? I own a Great Saiyaman costume!

...I should be embarassed, however I'm too much of a fool.

*would kill for Goku-costume* *eyes up other's unneringly*

Oh Cyberman if you like yaoi in comedy- (the BEST genre!) I suggest maybe reading Chuquita's fanfics; up to the point of fic 100.

[Jerseymilk]

For Nekoni:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Dragonball-Z-G ... dZViewItem

[El_Diablo]

http://tinyurl.com/fy5zb

Damn. I wish I hadn't read all the preview pages now.

[desirecampbell]

"Nappa's worse than all the bad guys on World Wrestling put together."

"We'll tell you how the show was created - who the genius was behind all this great stuff, and how he created those super mean guys, and all those great Dragon Ball Z Jokes."
"Super" mean, they really are worse that World Wrestling.

Okay, I can't do it anymore - I have to kill these people. They must die.

[Thanos6]

Not ALL DB yaoi is bad. 98% of it, yes, but like always, you can find the occasional gem. The best couple for it, I find, is Goten and Trunks (I actually have a hard time seeing them with anyone else, they're so close).*

But whatever the genre--fighting, romance of any combination of genders--the most important thing is to keep the sense of Toriyama's world and style, I think. Even during the darkest bits, when Piccolo Daimao conquered the world or Freeza only needed half power to fight Goku evenly, there was still humor.

I consider that to be one of the cardinal sins of a bad DB fic--wallowing in too much angst. Obviously you can explore the darker emotions; Toriyama did, mainly with Vegeta during his two deaths. But there's a line, and crossing it just loses the entire flavor of Dragon World. There's no point to it. May as well make some tweaks and publish it for a darker fandom, or as an original story all together.

And for God's sake don't bastardize the characters. Vegeta secretly horny for Goku, Trunks a moping depressed cutter...just change the names and publish it as original, at least then you're not disrespecting someone else's work AND you could (potentially) make a profit.

*As noted previously, I'm male.

[Jerseymilk]

But, if you're saying to not "bastardize" the characters, then you can't say a DB yaoi fic is valid because that is a form of bastardization. Trunks and Goten aren't gay in any way, shape, or form. So making them homosexual is totally out of character and not believeable.

[Xyex]

Nekoni, that was actually pretty accurate. It's pretty much why I've given up on reading fanfics a long time ago, considering they make the characters closer to their own personality than the real ones or they change them completely.

You shouldn't give up on them completely. There are some (like some of mine, though not quite all, sadly) that are pretty good. I've been told I do a rather good job keeping everyone in character. Just comes natural to me, which is why I wonder how so many others goof it up.

And changing them isn't always a bad thing, it depends heavily on the context around the change. If there's a reason that they're different and it's not just the author doing it for the hell of it, then it's all good.

Not ALL DB yaoi is bad. 98% of it, yes, but like always, you can find the occasional gem.

I've only ever read one Yaoi fic (I'm a straight guy so that's even a little more than expected) but it was 95% action and 5% porn so I could skip those parts and still follow the story. Going on just the story merits alone it was (while ignoring the bizarness of some things) pretty good. For those interested it's called Kingdom Come and is on FFnet (it's in my favorite fics section of my profile there as well to save you hunting).

[Nekoni]

Please don't refer to all yaoi as bastardising the characters, that's plain not true. Sexual preference was not the theme of DBZ, so yaoi's quite valid. (as is yuri) DragonballZ was not about the character's sex lives. =/

The actual PROBLEM is -bad fiction-, and that exists within all gender pairings, romance and non-romance, comedy and non-comedy.

The problem throughout is writing OOC.

Take what Thanos said, for example. The DBZ cast, generaly, are a bunch of upbeat, strongwilled people. Any excessive angst for any but Vegeta, (and even he has his limits!) would be OOC. The characters don't have those attitudes and thusly don't fit into it.

Personaly I'm a yaoi fan, and at the same moment so incredibly obsessed about them being in character, it's untrue! I take much pride in my characterisations of the.. characters! =)

[Thanos6]

Trunks and Goten aren't gay in any way, shape, or form.

I'd have to disagree there. Not counting GT (and I don't, due to its numerous plotholes), we never find out a thing about their sexual preferences.

Gohan? It can be safely assumed he's either heterosexual, or at the least, bisexual leaning straight, given his interest in Videl and the fact that Pan exists.

Goten and Trunks? No evidence one way or the other. When he's 17, Goten talks about "having a date," he doesn't say with who. When he's 18, Trunks freaks out when that Village People policeman hits on him, but looking at that guy, so would I. Unlike Gohan, these two's sexual preferences are a blank slate.

(And hell, look at that little dance they're doing in my avatar...)

[Rocketman]

I don't think Goku's anything but asexual.

[Jerseymilk]

Trunks and Goten aren't gay in any way, shape, or form.

I'd have to disagree there. Not counting GT (and I don't, due to its numerous plotholes), we never find out a thing about their sexual preferences.

Gohan? It can be safely assumed he's either heterosexual, or at the least, bisexual leaning straight, given his interest in Videl and the fact that Pan exists.

Goten and Trunks? No evidence one way or the other. When he's 17, Goten talks about "having a date," he doesn't say with who. When he's 18, Trunks freaks out when that Village People policeman hits on him, but looking at that guy, so would I. Unlike Gohan, these two's sexual preferences are a blank slate.

(And hell, look at that little dance they're doing in my avatar...)

Sorry but I'm going to give you a dose of reality here. This isn't Junichi Sato and his works we're talking about here. This is a staright up shonen manga by Akira Toriyama. Though the man has said that he's a little like Muten Roshi, notice that's referring to a character that's 100% straight. Stop thinking there's some little subtle subtext between the lines concerning the characters. This isn't the Xena Warrior Princess series or the bathing scene in Ben-Hur we're talking about. This is bloody DBZ. I honestly don't think I've heard anything so preposterous since I read some nutjob's essay about Cell having a sexual obssession with #18.

It's very common in Japan and in shonen anime for there to be a theme of close male friendships. Basically a bond like that of brotherly love. It's not homosexual love. They cry over one another's deaths, they are physical(hugging), and they'll even say they love each other, but it's not in a sexual way. You obviously don't understand enough about that aspect of Japanese culture or you wouldn't have made such statements.

As for Nekoni's post: So you're telling me that making Vegeta, someone married with a son and daughter, suddenly getting it on with Yamucha, who also clearly is straight isn't a bastardization? It's making them the complete opposite of what they are. And funny that you mentioned that we don't know anything about the sex lives of DBZ characters, but right there I gave evidence for two of them being straight. Evidence that I got from the series itself. There's plenty more scenes that contain evidence for the character's sexual orientations as well. I'm sorry but it *is* a form of bastardization no matter how many excuses you make because it's making the original character totally something they're not. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just "calling a spade a spade".

[Xyex]

Please don't refer to all yaoi as bastardising the characters, that's plain not true. Sexual preference was not the theme of DBZ, so yaoi's quite valid. (as is yuri) DragonballZ was not about the character's sex lives. =/

No, it didn't. However, none of the main characters were ever stated/shown/hinted to be gay. It is entirely OOC for any of them to be anything but straight (unless proper changes to the world itself exist to make it a viable AU possibility).

I'd have to disagree there. Not counting GT (and I don't, due to its numerous plotholes), we never find out a thing about their sexual preferences.

Gohan? It can be safely assumed he's either heterosexual, or at the least, bisexual leaning straight, given his interest in Videl and the fact that Pan exists.

Goten and Trunks? No evidence one way or the other. When he's 17, Goten talks about "having a date," he doesn't say with who. When he's 18, Trunks freaks out when that Village People policeman hits on him, but looking at that guy, so would I. Unlike Gohan, these two's sexual preferences are a blank slate.

(And hell, look at that little dance they're doing in my avatar... )

Uh, so? They're dancing, so what? Goten and Trunks are best friends, you know. If you see them as possibly being anything more you must think anyone who talks to someone is madly in love with them.

And you know, Goten and Trunks aren't the ONLY friends like that in the series. There's a LOT of 2 man pairs that hang out around each other a lot. Tien and Chaotzu, Goku and Krillin, Yamcha and Puar, Yajirobe and Korin, and hell, even Roshi and Oolong. It's not a unique situation to Goten and Trunks by any means and is, as with the others, nothing more than a friendship.

[Thanos6]

All right, let me back it up.

Xyex:First off, I am not saying "they're dancing, so they must be gay." Notice that little smiley I slipped in to that post? The dance is interesting if you think they're that way, but if not, it's just a funny little dance between friends. I didn't mean for it to be used as evidence, and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Yes, I am aware that there are other friendships in the DBU that are just as close. But the difference is this, I think: Goku and Kuririn got married and settled down. Goten and Trunks, by manga's end, hadn't. They are completely blank slates in that area. Straight, bi, gay; they all fit. None of them is immediately wrong, in the same way that the hypothetical Vegeta/Yamcha relationship would be. It's a difference of opinion.

Jerseymilk:I know about "close male friendships." My ex-roommate minored in Japanese studies and I absorbed lots of info by osmosis. Not claiming to be an expert on their culture, but I certainly know about that. And I'm not claiming every close friendship = yaoi; I am not one of those lunatic yaoi fangirls (I'm not even a girl). Just that the particular relationship of Goten and Trunks, when they're teenagers, is left blank enough that it can be interepreted that way, if one so chooses.

[Nekoni]

Please, lets not be homophobic here.

DBZ -is- a shounen manga. That means -their sex lives are not explored- that means, gay, bi, straight, whatever! It's fine.

There's plenty enough 'yaoi hinting' in DBZ for a good sized fanbase, just as there is enough for het! So don't go writing off an entire section of fanfic as 'bastardization', that's incredibly offensive and unbased.

I will reitterate, the most ROMANCE you get in DBZ, is ChiChi whining about her husband being off somewhere training! So no, you're not right. There is no 'solid fact' to pull from of whether their bi, straight, whatever. If you want to say such stuff about people's works without even so much as glancing them, then you get me a SCAN or somesort from tha manga, where Vegeta states, 'Hi, I'm a totaly homophomic alien, I love Bulma and I would NEVER EVER BE GAY'.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you would care to be less offensive with it.

[theoriginalbilis]

Wow. Did this get off-topic...

[lost in thought]

*sigh*....

Please, lets not be homophobic here.

There is none.

DBZ -is- a shounen manga. That means -their sex lives are not explored- that means, gay, bi, straight, whatever! It's fine.

No, no it doesn't. It means that we're dealing with a self-sustaining story from the 80's written by a man with an affinity for women. Deciding that you can build upon these characters, set down by Akira Toriyama is base-less and disrespectful.
Don't get me wrong, homosexuality isn't bad, but it doesn't exist in the DragonBall universe, and what isn't written, or has not been seen, does not exist; no matter how much you want to try and build upon that.

That's what fanfiction is for. Considering the 'possibility' is ridiculous, without any written proof to back such a claim up.

There's plenty enough 'yaoi hinting' in DBZ for a good sized fanbase, just as there is enough for het! So don't go writing off an entire section of fanfic as 'bastardization', that's incredibly offensive and unbased.

No, not really. There's just a story, with men, women, animals, and aliens-- some of which who save the world. Fanfiction takes either pre-established concepts, or non-existant ones, and trys to work them into the fabric of DragonBall.
As well, fanfiction is a bastardization no matter how much you like it, and who the fuck cares if it's offensive to the community that writes them? They're writing bullshit, that 95% of the time is a DIRECT INSULT to the author of the material they're making their cookie-cutter bullshit romps from. Fanfiction is nothing but a glorified way for morons to express things that have no base to a series, in a ridiculous manner, with ridiculous outcomes; there is no justification for the trype that comes of morons and their word processors.

I will reitterate, the most ROMANCE you get in DBZ, is ChiChi whining about her husband being off somewhere training! So no, you're not right. There is no 'solid fact' to pull from of whether their bi, straight, whatever. If you want to say such stuff about people's works without even so much as glancing them, then you get me a SCAN or somesort from tha manga, where Vegeta states, 'Hi, I'm a totaly homophomic alien, I love Bulma and I would NEVER EVER BE GAY'.

That's exactly why trying to say that someones gay, or that someones mannerisms make them 'appear' that way, or even, trying to say that it's 'not entirely out of the question'; because it is, without sufficient, written proof to justify a characters sexuality. Mannerisms a sexual preference do NOT make.

Look at Tenshinhan, and Chaozu as a good example. They live together, they train together, they admire one another, and one could even go so far as to say they love each other. But love has many levels to it, and saying they're gay without proof other than their mannerisms, and what I've said above is ridiculous, and without basis.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you would care to be less offensive with it.

Right, and you stop trying to build upon things that don't exist in the DragonWorld.

Here's food for thought:
DragonBall was made during the 80's and ending in the middle 90's, during this time how favorable was open homosexuality? Not very, and not just in the United States. There is no reason not to believe that Akira Toriyama wouldn't make a jab, in some shape or form, at homosexuality without a very good reason to do so; considering the state of personal perceptions of the time.

DragonBall in and of itself, is one rather large jab at a myriad of topics, topics which weren't 'taboo'.

[Rocketman]

Considering how General Blue turned out, if any of the main cast was homosexual, there would be no question.