Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?

[rereboy]

The first is the most used, of course, but the second is technically correct. Marvel and DC pull this stuff all the time with their upper level cosmic beings, and technically, they are correct.

Technically, that's not the literal meaning of the word.

Its like calling a being immortal when it can actually die, like a vampire. If it can die, technically its not immortal. And the fact that this use is very widespread doesn't change the literal meaning of the word.

[Kamiccolo9]

The first is the most used, of course, but the second is technically correct. Marvel and DC pull this stuff all the time with their upper level cosmic beings, and technically, they are correct.

Technically, that's not the literal meaning of the word.

Its like calling a being immortal when it can actually die, like a vampire. If it can die, technically its not immortal. And the fact that this use is very widespread doesn't change the literal meaning of the word.

Sure it can. Words change meaning all the time.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well if we break down Omnipotent to omni and potent you would find it just translates to all powerful. All powerful doesn't necessarily translate to can do anything. People have just accepted that to be part of it's definition.

All powerful, or in other words, power to do all.

I don't see any significant twist in meaning regarding its literal composition.

All powerful means to contain all the power there is. This doesn't necessarily translate to unlimited power or can do anything because there could be a finite amount of power to posses. In other words you can posses all the power in the world yet still have finite power.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He still has no memories of being SSj3 Vegetto though. It's not like Goku estimated Vegetto's exact BP, figured out the exact multiplier for the form, and then calculated it as such. Then later estimating the numerical value of his own power as SSj God and comparing it as such. I doubt Goku could even fathom that kind of math. Sure, he has a general gist of how crazy the SSj3 powerup in general is, but since we're talking about things we can't see or know, how do we know that Vegetto's SSj3 wouldn't also qualify as something Goku wouldn't imagine was possible? Vegetto himself was surprised at his own power, and we've seen how ridiculously rule-breaking Vegetto is in the first place when it comes to power.

Like I said, Goku should have an estimate of SS3 Vegetto's power, I didn't say he knows exactly how strong SS3 Vegetto would be. Since Goku was Super Vegetto, he should know Super Vegetto's true power. And since he is experienced with Super Saiyan 3, having transformed into it lots of times, he should know that it makes the user around 4 times stronger. If he could guess how strong Goten & Trunks would be if they had used Fusion & Super Saiyan (he knew the true power of Goten & Trunks, the power of Super Saiyan, and the power of Fusion), then it shouldn't be hard to guess SS3 Vegetto's power (since he knows the power of Super Vegetto, and the power of Super Saiyan 3).

There's also the interpretation that Goku meant gaining power of that level as one person, without fusing. It's not a necessary interpretation, sure, but it's not really explicitly contradicted by anything.

He doesn't say "I never knew I could reach this realm", he says something like "I never knew there was a realm like this". Sounds very clear to me.

[rereboy]

The first is the most used, of course, but the second is technically correct. Marvel and DC pull this stuff all the time with their upper level cosmic beings, and technically, they are correct.

Technically, that's not the literal meaning of the word.

Its like calling a being immortal when it can actually die, like a vampire. If it can die, technically its not immortal. And the fact that this use is very widespread doesn't change the literal meaning of the word.

Sure it can. Words change meaning all the time.

Right. I'm sure that someday mortal and immortal will stop meaning subject to death and not subject to death, respectively, simply because people have started using them with broader, yet literal incorrect, meanings.

Well if we break down Omnipotent to omni and potent you would find it just translates to all powerful. All powerful doesn't necessarily translate to can do anything. People have just accepted that to be part of it's definition.

All powerful, or in other words, power to do all.

I don't see any significant twist in meaning regarding its literal composition.

All powerful means to contain all the power there is. This doesn't necessarily translate to unlimited power or can do anything because there could be a finite amount of power to posses. In other words you can posses all the power in the world yet still have finite power.

All power includes every imaginable power. The concept is a intellectual concept. It doesn't limit itself to things that can exist or can be proven to exist or whatever. It literally includes ALL. There's no way around that no matter how you twist it.

[Kamiccolo9]

Right. I'm sure that someday mortal and immortal will stop meaning subject to death and not subject to death, respectively, simply because people have started using them with broader, yet literal incorrect, meanings.

Omnipotence is somewhat different though. How can you give a definition to something that is incomprehensible to human nature? What does "all-powerful" mean? What does unlimited power mean? The Androids in DB have unlimited energy, are they omnipotent?
Immortality is a whole other can of worms. You've got DB immortality, like Garlic Jr., eternal youth, "vampire-type" immortality, which is what I like to call "immortal except for x," biological immortality, having an immortal soul, like the Bible says, etc. Immortality has adopted numerous meanings. Same with Omnipotence.

[rereboy]

Right. I'm sure that someday mortal and immortal will stop meaning subject to death and not subject to death, respectively, simply because people have started using them with broader, yet literal incorrect, meanings.

Omnipotence is somewhat different though. How can you give a definition to something that is incomprehensible to human nature? What does "all-powerful" mean? What does unlimited power mean? The Androids in DB have unlimited energy, are they omnipotent?
Immortality is a whole other can of worms. You've got DB immortality, like Garlic Jr., eternal youth, "vampire-type" immortality, which is what I like to call "immortal except for x," biological immortality, having an immortal soul, like the Bible says, etc. Immortality has adopted numerous meanings. Same with Omnipotence.

Yet again you are merely talking about the logic of the concept. A concept can defy logic and be illogical even. That doesn't have anything to do with its meaning.

And most of the "types" of immortalities you talked about are not literal immortality. The fact that a word can be used in multiples ways, even in ways that are not true to their literal meaning, is not in question here. I never disagreed with that. I'm merely stressing the literal meaning of the words/terms and their importance.

In discussions like these, where its important to be specific regarding what we are talking about, using these words without actually wanting to use their literal meaning, its not a very good policy.

[Kamiccolo9]

Right. I'm sure that someday mortal and immortal will stop meaning subject to death and not subject to death, respectively, simply because people have started using them with broader, yet literal incorrect, meanings.

Omnipotence is somewhat different though. How can you give a definition to something that is incomprehensible to human nature? What does "all-powerful" mean? What does unlimited power mean? The Androids in DB have unlimited energy, are they omnipotent?
Immortality is a whole other can of worms. You've got DB immortality, like Garlic Jr., eternal youth, "vampire-type" immortality, which is what I like to call "immortal except for x," biological immortality, having an immortal soul, like the Bible says, etc. Immortality has adopted numerous meanings. Same with Omnipotence.

In discussions like these, where its important to be specific regarding what we are talking about, using these words without actually wanting to use their literal meaning, its not a very good policy.

In general, I agree. However, as DB has never had an omnipotent being, we have no idea what Toryama would mean if he ever used it. As I've shown earlier, one of the accepted definitions of omnipotence is "having great or unlimited authority or power."
And to be completely honest, and I'm gonna go out on a limb here and think that many people here would agree with me, I never want to see any kind of omnipotent being in DB. It wouldn't fit the narrative at all.

[Puto]

I thought the Daizenshuu had some sort of official multiplier for each form, like SSJ > 50x, SSJ2 > 2x, SSJ3 > 4x (I believe SSJ3 to be 5x), then SSJ4 > 10x..

The Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 3 multipliers you listed are from the Super Exciting Guides (although the regular Super Saiyan one was in the Daizenshuu before that). There's never been an officially given Super Saiyan 4 multiplier. Ten times Super Saiyan 3 is what ScrewAttack went with for their Superman vs. Goku video, which they came up with based on suggestions and information from us, but it's not official.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the input.

And regarding that video, ScrewAttack should have waited for this movie to come out first; as Super Saiyan God just perhaps could match Superman's strength!

Which would be irrelevant, because no outside help is allowed, and Super Saiyan God requires energy from 5 other Saiyans.

[RandomGuy96]

And then they'd have to let Superman Prime enter the fray, and he'd ass stomp SS God.

[TheMightyOzaru]

If Goku gets his God form Superman gets his God form which would snap Goku into with his finger tips. Superman prime is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too strong for Goku.

[Draken]

If Goku gets his God form Superman gets his God form which would snap Goku into with his finger tips. Superman prime is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too strong for Goku.

Well they were using current Goku + current Superman.

[MDSTSSJ]

If Goku gets his God form Superman gets his God form which would snap Goku into with his finger tips. Superman prime is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too strong for Goku.

No worries my friend, Goku always seek ways to surpass Superman!!!!

[TheMightyOzaru]

If Goku gets his God form Superman gets his God form which would snap Goku into with his finger tips. Superman prime is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too strong for Goku.

No worries my friend, Goku always seek ways to surpass Superman!!!!

He can try all he wants but until he attains nigh Omnipotence he doesn't have what it takes to tangle with Superman Prime. It's just unrealistic to suggest Goku can take the guy. If I remember correctly, Superman Prime is the second strongest character in all of DC, right behind The Presence whom is Omnipotent.

[Draken]

If Goku gets his God form Superman gets his God form which would snap Goku into with his finger tips. Superman prime is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too strong for Goku.

No worries my friend, Goku always seek ways to surpass Superman!!!!

He can try all he wants but until he attains nigh Omnipotence he doesn't have what it takes to tangle with Superman Prime. It's just unrealistic to suggest Goku can take the guy. If I remember correctly, Superman Prime is the second strongest character in all of DC, right behind The Presence whom is Omnipotent.

Are you talking about SBP, SMP (which is the same thing) or SMP 1 million?

Because SBP got his ass handed to him by a few speedsters and left the Earth in fear. He was so scared he preferred trying to beat all of GLC and restarting the universe over fighting the Flash.

[TheMightyOzaru]

When I say Superman Prime I'm referring to Prime 1,000,000. I refer to Super Boy Prime as Super Boy Prime.

[Draken]

When I say Superman Prime I'm referring to Prime 1,000,000. I refer to Super Boy Prime as Super Boy Prime.

Oh. In that case I'm pretty sure the Spectre is still above SMP. Going by feats at any rate, since SMP had like zero feats lol.
So is ION Kyle and Parallax Hal.

[Hugo Boss]

Hey guys, sorry for putting the "omnipotence" word on this thread. Maybe I was misundertood because the authors use god characters without omnipotent chacteristics, which it's acceptable if we are talking about fictional and abstract concepts that might be surpassed by the plot resolve. Saint Seiya World for example has Zeus as a omnipotent being, but he might be equalled by Seiya one day, no more being powerful over all creation. I admit I was exagerating about Super Saiyan God, but I just wanted to express in words the difference of realms. If omnipotent is not the right choice, what word would perfectly describe him?

[Draken]

A really really strong dude.

[Hugo Boss]

A really really strong dude.

Well, I mean just one word lol. At first, I thought "ultimate" or "supreme".

I remember Super Saiyan levels had another name about ten years ago, like ultra, hyper and mega. So, SSG could be giga-like?

You're talking about Superman, so prime is a good choice too, maybe "alpha", "omega", any else?