Unpopular DB opinions

[DBZAOTA482]

Oh and here's another unpopular opinion:

Goku vs. Paikhun is gnarly monkey tits.

[Kamiccolo9]

Oh and here's another unpopular opinion:

Goku vs. Paikhun is gnarly monkey tits.

I liked that fight.

[DBZAOTA482]

Oh and here's another unpopular opinion:

Goku vs. Paikhun is gnarly monkey tits.

I liked that fight.

So...?

[Kamiccolo9]

Oh and here's another unpopular opinion:

Goku vs. Paikhun is gnarly monkey tits.

I liked that fight.

So...?

Just commenting.

[DBZAOTA482]

Just commenting.

Okay...

More unpopular opinions:

Freeza is grossly overrated (even though I still believe he's the best Dragon Ball villain).
The worst DBZ movies are a toss up between Movie 4 and 7.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No, what he did was horribly irresponsible. There's no reason he can't kill Boo and THEN teach the boys fusion. Leaving Boo alive is completely negligent as he can't even be sure the boys will learn fusion and beat Majin Boo.

If he had to kill Boo, then he would have to stay much longer as Super Saiyan 3, which would mean that his time in the Living World would run out, and he wouldn't have the chance to teach the boys Fusion.

And Gotenks only achieved Super Saiyan 3 and developed the Kamikaze Ghost through RoSaT training, which Goku was against. Without that they would have been horribly killed and eaten by Boo, no doubt about it.

Gotenks would die from Innocent Boo? I disagree. Goku was confident that SS Gotenks would surpass him (Goku knew SS Goten's & Trunks' true power, and knew how Fusion worked), and Piccolo never showed any doubt about SS Gotenks when Innocent Boo was around.

"I'm gonna let these roid-raged freaks steal my son's energy even though I don't what their intentions are." - Goku

You mean that you wouldn't trust the god of the gods of the gods when you had just learned who he is?

"I'm gonna let my horribly rusty son fight a demon king alone of which I can't determine how strong he really is because it's only fair (my ego needs satisfaction)." - Goku

Are you serious now? I mean... really? Goku knew that Dabra was as strong as Cell was, and he didn't know that Gohan had gotten that rusty, and besides, Gohan isn't a little baby who needs help from his daddy, not to mention that Gohan didn't have any problem that he had to fight Dabra.

"I'm gonna save a two-faced liar who stole credit for my son's greatest achievement then denounced our hard work and an Namekian of whom of which I've never shared no more than 2 lines of dialogue with." - Goku

He tried to save everyone, so he first go Dende, Mr. Satan, and Bee, since they were closer, and then tried to catch Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo, but he didn't have time to do it.

[Saiga]

If he had to kill Boo, then he would have to stay much longer as Super Saiyan 3, which would mean that his time in the Living World would run out, and he wouldn't have the chance to teach the boys Fusion.

That's pure conjecture. It's just as likely, if not more so, that killing Boo would have been quicker because he doesn't have to stall him. The only reason we're given for Goku not trying to kill Boo is that he wants to leave it to the kids.

Gotenks would die from Innocent Boo? I disagree. Goku was confident that SS Gotenks would surpass him (Goku knew SS Goten's & Trunks' true power, and knew how Fusion worked), and Piccolo never showed any doubt about SS Gotenks when Innocent Boo was around.

I was talking about Evil Boo, who would definitely kill them. Even if Goku had no way of knowing that would happen, by now they should be pretty damn open to the possibility of villains getting stronger if left unchecked, which is exactly what happened.

However, I don't doubt that Innocent/Fat Boo would roftstomp Gotenks either. Piccolo's an idiot who thought base Gotenks might beat Evil Boo, and Goku hasn't even seen the fusion yet (I don't believe that fusion is a consistent multiplier OR that Goku is math-y enough to properly estimate that). He's also clearly desperate to be surpassed at this point, which hurts the credibility of his confidence.

[ABED]

If he had to kill Boo, then he would have to stay much longer as Super Saiyan 3, which would mean that his time in the Living World would run out, and he wouldn't have the chance to teach the boys Fusion.

That's pure conjecture. It's just as likely, if not more so, that killing Boo would have been quicker because he doesn't have to stall him. The only reason we're given for Goku not trying to kill Boo is that he wants to leave it to the kids.

Gotenks would die from Innocent Boo? I disagree. Goku was confident that SS Gotenks would surpass him (Goku knew SS Goten's & Trunks' true power, and knew how Fusion worked), and Piccolo never showed any doubt about SS Gotenks when Innocent Boo was around.

I was talking about Evil Boo, who would definitely kill them. Even if Goku had no way of knowing that would happen, by now they should be pretty damn open to the possibility of villains getting stronger if left unchecked, which is exactly what happened.

However, I don't doubt that Innocent/Fat Boo would roftstomp Gotenks either. Piccolo's an idiot who thought base Gotenks might beat Evil Boo, and Goku hasn't even seen the fusion yet (I don't believe that fusion is a consistent multiplier OR that Goku is math-y enough to properly estimate that). He's also clearly desperate to be surpassed at this point, which hurts the credibility of his confidence.

Goku did have an idea of how powerful Buu was and he saw how powerful Fusion was when weaker people did it, so it wouldn't be that difficult for him to surmise if Gotenks would've had enough power in a fused state to defeat Fat Buu.

I don't think it would've been quick and easy for Goku to defeat Buu at Super Saiyan 3. He seems confident he could win, but how long would it have taken?

[Saiga]

Once again, I don't think fusion is a consistent formula or anything. And even if it was, you're comparing feelings. The feeling of Goten/Trunks power, the feeling of Boo's power, the feeling of the metamoran's before/after fusion power, and estimating the feeling of Gotenks' power after that... yeah, I don't find that reliable at all.

[TheGmGoken]

Just commenting.

Okay...

More unpopular opinions:

Freeza is grossly overrated (even though I still believe he's the best Dragon Ball villain).
The worst DBZ movies are a toss up between Movie 4 and 7.

I don't think that's unpopular. Well the movie opinion

[TheGmGoken]

Goten is the best anime character in Dragonball's history.

[ABED]

Once again, I don't think fusion is a consistent formula or anything. And even if it was, you're comparing feelings. The feeling of Goten/Trunks power, the feeling of Boo's power, the feeling of the metamoran's before/after fusion power, and estimating the feeling of Gotenks' power after that... yeah, I don't find that reliable at all.

It's all a feeling. When Goku senses a battle power, it's a feeling, he's not doing math. Seeing as battle powers and sensing them isn't real, I imagine there's some physical sensation that occurs when they sense the level of someone's strength. In the real world, when you do something long enough and do it well, you can a lot of things from quick estimations.

[Saiga]

Once again, I don't think fusion is a consistent formula or anything. And even if it was, you're comparing feelings. The feeling of Goten/Trunks power, the feeling of Boo's power, the feeling of the metamoran's before/after fusion power, and estimating the feeling of Gotenks' power after that... yeah, I don't find that reliable at all.

It's all a feeling. When Goku senses a battle power, it's a feeling, he's not doing math. Seeing as battle powers and sensing them isn't real, I imagine there's some physical sensation that occurs when they sense the level of someone's strength.

Which means it's completely unreliable. These feelings even vary between other ki sensors, two people can judge the same ki differently.

[ABED]

Once again, I don't think fusion is a consistent formula or anything. And even if it was, you're comparing feelings. The feeling of Goten/Trunks power, the feeling of Boo's power, the feeling of the metamoran's before/after fusion power, and estimating the feeling of Gotenks' power after that... yeah, I don't find that reliable at all.

It's all a feeling. When Goku senses a battle power, it's a feeling, he's not doing math. Seeing as battle powers and sensing them isn't real, I imagine there's some physical sensation that occurs when they sense the level of someone's strength.

Which means it's completely unreliable. These feelings even vary between other ki sensors, two people can judge the same ki differently.

No, that just means someone is more reliable than another person, and Goku is very reliable. It's well established that he's a genius in the art of fighting.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The only reason we're given for Goku not trying to kill Boo is that he wants to leave it to the kids.

Exactly. He wanted to leave it to the kids, so that they would surpass him and become better protectors than him.

I was talking about Evil Boo, who would definitely kill them. Even if Goku had no way of knowing that would happen, by now they should be pretty damn open to the possibility of villains getting stronger if left unchecked, which is exactly what happened.

Goku had no knowledge about Boo's ability to expel his evil self, or absorb, so there is no way to imagine that.

Piccolo's an idiot who thought base Gotenks might beat Evil Boo

Come on now, that was for a second, and also, a gag.

Goku hasn't even seen the fusion yet (I don't believe that fusion is a consistent multiplier OR that Goku is math-y enough to properly estimate that)

Well, I disagree. Fusion has specific requirements: same weight, body-type, age, race, power, etc. If the 2 persons match, then Fusion can happen, and makes them dozens of times stronger (from the guidebooks).

[Saiga]

Goku clearly isn't reliable when he misjudged Pure Boo.

Exactly. He wanted to leave it to the kids, so that they would surpass him and become better protectors than him.

Yes, but you missed by point. The consequences to him killing Boo were just made up. The story gives no reason for why he can't kill Boo and THEN teach them fusion.

Goku had no knowledge about Boo's ability to expel his evil self, or absorb, so there is no way to imagine that.

He doesn't need knowledge of it. He should know from experience that villains can power up in new and exciting ways, because that's happened time and time again. It's still irresponsible to let Boo continue killing the human population.

Come on now, that was for a second, and also, a gag.

Doesn't matter. In-universe answer is that Piccolo overrates Gotenks despite his ki.

Well, I disagree. Fusion has specific requirements: same weight, body-type, age, race, power, etc. If the 2 persons match, then Fusion can happen, and makes them dozens of times stronger (from the guidebooks).

There's no evidence for it being consistent, and with a slight error producing wildly different results I can't see how it can be.

[ABED]

Goku clearly isn't reliable when he misjudged Pure Boo.

How?

He doesn't need knowledge of it. He should know from experience that villains can power up in new and exciting ways, because that's happened time and time again. It's still irresponsible to let Boo continue killing the human population.

You're assuming he could've stopped Buu in enough time.

The consequences to him killing Boo were just made up. The story gives no reason for why he can't kill Boo and THEN teach them fusion.
The entire story is made up. If we follow your train of logic, not only should Goku have known Buu could transform, he would know a stronger enemy would show up, and what then? The training wheels have to come off some time, he can't be there to bail the living out of a bind. I think Toriyama could've done a better job of saying why he couldn't kill Buu but I buy the idea that he didn't have the time.

All of Goku's reasons can be chalked up to retconning, and I know "in universe..." but it's valid. Goku would not have made the decisions he did had Toriyama known where he was going, at least I highly doubt it. Goku told Piccolo he couldn't beat him, but then says he could. What reason would he have lied to Piccolo except for Toriyama retconning?

[Saiga]

He's unreliable because we've seen that he can't always judge his opponents reliable. As he did with Pure Boo. I don't know how to make that any simpler.

And it doesn't matter that it's been retconned. Just like the retcon makes him confident he could have defeated Boo all along, it also makes him extremely irresponsible. Pre-retcon, it was fine. Post-retcon, it isn't.

Leaving the Earth at the mercy of a genocidal god isn't taking the training wheels off. It's negligence. At that stage, the boys hadn't even learned fusion yet. There was still a chance of them not learning the dance in the first place! Far too risky.

If for some unfathomable reason, he really, really, really needed the boys to fight Boo to learn to take over, he should have killed Boo then, taught the boys fusion, and then contact them from otherworld and have Boo and him resurrected with the Namekian balls. Still completely unnecessary but at least it's not stupid.

[ABED]

He's unreliable because we've seen that he can't always judge his opponents reliable. As he did with Pure Boo. I don't know how to make that any simpler.

And it doesn't matter that it's been retconned. Just like the retcon makes him confident he could have defeated Boo all along, it also makes him extremely irresponsible. Pre-retcon, it was fine. Post-retcon, it isn't.

No, not always, but most of the time, yes. You don't have to judge something correct every time to be reliable, just enough times, and Goku is very good at sizing up his opponents. When did he misjudge pure Buu?

It does matter that it was retconned, if he knew where he was going with the story, he wouldn't have had to make leaps in logic and create these plot holes, and we wouldn't be arguing.

If Goku knew the power of Fusion, and his own power and Buu's and he thought the boys would've lost, then I'm positive he would've killed Buu then and there. If Goku was so piss poor at sizing up his opponents, then how did he know he could defeat Buu? You can't have it both ways.

"he should have killed Boo then"
Assuming he had time.

You know what, you're right, Goku hated everyone and wanted them to die, he didn't care about anyone.

[Saiga]

You know what, you're right, Goku hated everyone and wanted them to die, he didn't care about anyone.

Don't do this. That is absolutely not what I have been saying.

The fact that Goku doesn't have 100% accuracy with these things just shows that we can't automatically assume he's right about Gotenks. If he's only 99% accurate than that leaves a chance that he'll be wrong. Gotenks has nothing else going for him, so it's not enough to act like it's a fact that he's stronger than Boo. Anyone who wants to believe he's lower than Boo is just as valid.

No, it doesn't matter that it was retconned. The retconned result is the final product. And it's a retcon that doesn't create a plothole or contradiction with the story - Goku gives a reason for why he did what he did, which is consistent with what we know of him. It just has the side effect of making him look irresponsible.

I assume Goku had the time to kill Boo because he says he could do it. There's no evidence that he couldn't do so.