Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

To respond to your signature: Nameks were established from the beginning as having magical powers. Saiyans were not. To suddenly give Saiyans magical powers in a retcon just so ~*~*~*GOKU*~*~*~ can get a nice big powerup to put him above all those silly willy not-goku characters like Buu/Uub, Gotenks, Mystic Gohan and Gogeta/Vegetto....well, it's shit.

...Have you read the manga up until Freeza arc?

[Rocketman]

Also BoG is part of the shitty-ass Goku-sucking anime, so pbbbbbt.

It's also part of the manga since Toriyama connect it to his manga with the whole Kaio planet thing :thumbup:

I have the 42 volumes right here and I don't see it.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Also BoG is part of the shitty-ass Goku-sucking anime, so pbbbbbt.

It's also part of the manga since Toriyama connect it to his manga with the whole Kaio planet thing

I have the 42 volumes right here and I don't see it.

Toriyama stated what had happened to Kaio's planet. Beers is directly connected to the manga through the manga's author. Your argument is invalid.

[Rocketman]

And yet, it's still not there.

[hleV]

Beerus and Whis became part of Z's history the moment they were introduced.

I'm done arguing with you. You clearly don't know what the word past means. Here lets put these 2 definitions side by side:
History: The past events relating to a particular thing.
Past: The time or a period of time before the moment of speaking or writing.

Beerus and Whis were introduced before the statement about Beerus being the strongest in the history of Z. So Beerus & Whis were already "past" at the time of the statement. They were already in the history of Z.
Also, here's the statement: "“Birusu” is without a doubt the strongest being in the history of “Z”!!!" As you can see, Beerus is stated to be strongest IN the history of Z, meaning that he belongs to that history. So does Whis. Thus the statement is invalid.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Beerus and Whis became part of Z's history the moment they were introduced.

I'm done arguing with you. You clearly don't know what the word past means. Here lets put these 2 definitions side by side:
History: The past events relating to a particular thing.
Past: The time or a period of time before the moment of speaking or writing.

Beerus and Whis were introduced before the statement about Beerus being the strongest in the history of Z. So Beerus & Whis were already "past" at the time of the statement. They were already in the history of Z.
Also, here's the statement: "“Birusu” is without a doubt the strongest being in the history of “Z”!!!" As you can see, Beerus is stated to be strongest IN the history of Z, meaning that he belongs to that history. So does Whis. Thus the statement is invalid.

IN the history does not imply everything in Z. History implies any past developments, in the history is like saying in the past. Is everything in the past when they peg Beers as the strongest? I don't think so. Whis wasn't part of DBZ's past and therefore it is not a contradicted statement. You are simply trying to view it in a way that will make it so it's contradicted in your eyes because you are insulted by the idea that Beers is stronger than Vegetto. Beers > Vegetto, I'm sorry if you're insulted by this, but it's the truth.

And yet, it's still not there.

Saying this is like saying Bardock can't fly because we never saw it. It's a moment from the distant past and therefore wouldn't be shown in the manga. Toriyama says it's a past development and thus is part of his story because he added it to the story. Your argument is invalid.

[Rocketman]

We saw Bardock fly.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

• In the Search for the DBs arc, he was unbeatable just because, could transform into an Oozaru just because, and could learn the Kamehameha after seeing it just because.
  
  In the 21st TB, he could fight evenly with Kame-sennin, the stronger guy up until that point, because he was a miracle boy who managed to get much stronger than Kame-sennin expected.
  
  In the RRA arc, he was again the miracle boy who got stronger in 3 days through special training, while it took Kame-sennin 3 years.
  
  In the 22nd TB arc, everyone had trained their asses off, but miracle boy was still the superior one, only to be rivaled by Tenshinhan.
  
  In the Piccolo Daimao arc, Toriyama pulled from his ass a new super water that made Goku strong enough to defeat Piccolo Daimao, the strongest being on Earth at that point.
  
  In the 23rd TB arc, Goku trained with Mr. Popo & God (the new stronger guys at that point), and managed to surpass God himself because he was the miracle boy, defeated the reincarnation of Piccolo Daimao (who had also became stronger than God), and won the title of the strongest fighter on Earth.
  
  In Saiyan arc, Toriyama decided that Goku wasn't a miracle boy, but a low-class Saiyan, an alien. Goku died, but came back around 19 times stronger after training with the God of his galaxy, Kaio, and with the new technique to make his power x2, x3, and even x4 times stronger. Even though he eventually lost to Vegeta, he was the low-class who made the super-elite rely on his Oozaru form to beat him, because now, he had become a miracle Saiyan.
  
  In Freeza arc, he got over 10 times stronger in a week because Toriyama pulled from his ass the near-death power-ups, and then around 33 times stronger for the same reason. Toriyama also pulled from his ass Super Saiyan to make Goku 50 times stronger, defeated to overpowered tyrant Freeza, and became the strongest being in the Universe.
  
  In Cell arc, Goku entered in less than a day inside the RoSaT, and surpassed SSG2 Vegeta, SSG3 Trunks, 2nd Form Cell, #16, #17, and #18, and all of those were much stronger than him before his trip. Why did he get so strong? Because he is the miracle Saiyan & because Toriyama pulled from his ass Super Saiyan Full Power, which gave Goku a huge boost in his power through his training because plot. Gohan surpassed him, but it was mainly thanks to Goku's training, and because Toriyama decided for Gohan to be the main character.
  
  In Boo arc, not only Goku surpassed Raged SS2 Gohan in SS2, but Toriyama now pulled from his ass SS3, which made him the strongest being at the time (stronger than Majin Boo). Now, Gohan & Gotenks surpassed Goku, but this was only because they were set to be the main protagonists, and Boo also got much stronger because he should be a challenge for them. But when Toriyama changed his mind, Goku became the main character again, and Boo got weaker so that Goku could fight with him evenly, and eventually, Goku killed him.

Just to point out that Toriyama also loved "sucking Goku's dick" since the very beginning, to the point that he couldn't even stand someone other than Goku as the main character.
And if you come out and say me "but Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, etc also got power ups in the manga, but in BoG, it was only Goku"... We are talking about a 80-minute movie, not a whole freaking manga series. Of course the main character will get the new power-up, because the main character is the one who beats the bad guys... and even in the movie, he did not beat the bad guy.

[goku the krump dancer]

To respond to your signature: Nameks were established from the beginning as having magical powers. Saiyans were not. To suddenly give Saiyans magical powers in a retcon just so ~*~*~*GOKU*~*~*~ can get a nice big powerup to put him above all those silly willy not-goku characters like Buu/Uub, Gotenks, Mystic Gohan and Gogeta/Vegetto....well, it's shit.

But the god ritual seems more like Chi manipulation rather than a magic trick unless it was stated as such in the story break down I don't remember. And even if it was just because there were no hints at Saiyans being capable of a few magic tricks doesn't mean they're completely incapable of learning them. People here consider the fusion dance to be a magic trick and well... Gotenks and Gogeta.

Dragon Ball is such an open ended thing that just about anything can happen with maybe a few contradictions here an there but it may only seems as such depending on how you interpret previous statements. The guide books don't help either with all their "maybes, perhapses, supposedlies and kindas" but we all knew that all ready lol.

I don't really like the idea of there being a Saiyan God of any sort but I'm not completely against it either. If it were me Id have it where it was a demi god of some form who temporarily possessed Goku or something idk.

[hleV]

IN the history does not imply everything in Z. History implies any past developments, in the history is like saying in the past. Is everything in the past when they peg Beers as the strongest? I don't think so. Whis wasn't part of DBZ's past and therefore it is not a contradicted statement. You are simply trying to view it in a way that will make it so it's contradicted in your eyes because you are insulted by the idea that Beers is stronger than Vegetto. Beers > Vegetto, I'm sorry if you're insulted by this, but it's the truth.

I don't know whether it's truth or not, I'm just pointing out that that specific statement is unreliable. If Beerus is stated to be the strongest in the history of something, it means that he belongs to that history. Otherwise the statement makes as much sense as a statement that Beerus is the strongest in the history of Naruto.

That statement is outright wrong, that's what you'll have to deal with. And I don't know whether Beerus is stronger than Vegetto, I haven't seen BOG yet. I find it unlikely that he'd be stronger than manga-Vegetto, though, if it's Goku x Vegeta.

[RandomGuy96]

There's really no reason that Goku x Vegeta can't still be weaker than Beers, Whis, Omega, SS4 Gogeta, and SSG Goku. In fact, with the GT characters, he almost has to be that strong for the SS Vegetto = SS4 Goku remark to make any sense.

[hleV]

There's really no reason that Goku x Vegeta can't still be weaker than Beers, Whis, Omega, SS4 Gogeta, and SSG Goku. In fact, with the GT characters, he almost has to be that strong for the SS Vegetto = SS4 Goku remark to make any sense.

It's true that we don't exactly have a basis for how strong Beerus actually is. Vegetto being millions of times stronger than Goku & Vegeta already is quite hard to comprehend. But in BOG, Vegeta gets a rage boost (which outright contradicts the series, BTW) and is somewhat able to fight Beerus. It's hardly believable that it boosted Vegeta's power millionfold, thousandfold or at least hundredfold. Yet he gave Beerus a fight. So I'm not sure if Beerus being millions of times stronger than Goku is really plausible.

[Draken]

There's really no reason that Goku x Vegeta can't still be weaker than Beers, Whis, Omega, SS4 Gogeta, and SSG Goku. In fact, with the GT characters, he almost has to be that strong for the SS Vegetto = SS4 Goku remark to make any sense.

It's true that we don't exactly have a basis for how strong Beerus actually is. Vegetto being millions of times stronger than Goku & Vegeta already is quite hard to comprehend. But in BOG, Vegeta gets a rage boost (which outright contradicts the series, BTW) and is somewhat able to fight Beerus. It's hardly believable that it boosted Vegeta's power millionfold, thousandfold or at least hundredfold. Yet he gave Beerus a fight. So I'm not sure if Beerus being millions of times stronger than Goku is really plausible.

Really? I interpreted the synopsis as saying "Beers saw Vegeta get mad. He stood there and trolled him. His anger stopped. Beers kicked his ass." And also we know he was highly suppressed at the time.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But in BOG, Vegeta gets a rage boost (which outright contradicts the series, BTW) and is somewhat able to fight Beerus.

Having seen their fight, Vegeta just lands some hits that throw Beers around, and lunches a Gyarik-Ho, which makes him revert back to base. After the smoke goes away, we see a disappointed unscratched Beers that K.O.s Vegeta by hitting him in the head with his finger.

And like I've explained you again before, it if you gather information from the manga & SEG, you will see that Vegeta gaining power from his rage can make sense.