Nail And The Ginyu Force

[Undertaker]

You do realize that just because you're not using the words "it's a fact," it doesn't mean that you aren't stating your views as facts.

What is a fact is that numerous people have asked you to stop doing this.

And I never said it's a fact, I said Reccome was >> Vegeta was a fact and you claim Vegeta was able to damage him which is wrong. Reccome easily beat him. Vegeta says he is a baby compared to him

[Kamiccolo9]

You do realize that just because you're not using the words "it's a fact," it doesn't mean that you aren't stating your views as facts.

What is a fact is that numerous people have asked you to stop doing this.

And I never said it's a fact, I said Reccome was >> Vegeta was a fact and you claim Vegeta was able to damage him which is wrong. Reccome easily beat him. Vegeta says he is a baby compared to him

Recoome was obviously damaged. Look at the guy-bruises, cuts, scratches, missing teeth, missing hair, busted armor, torn clothing...
Compare this to any other tanking feat in the series. You know, the ones where people take full on ki blasts to the fact and take zero damage.

What did Recoome do that couldn't be done by a guy at 37,000?

[rereboy]

Recoome's damage was negligible, as it was stated/implied by Krillin and Vegeta.

[Undertaker]

You do realize that just because you're not using the words "it's a fact," it doesn't mean that you aren't stating your views as facts.

What is a fact is that numerous people have asked you to stop doing this.

And I never said it's a fact, I said Reccome was >> Vegeta was a fact and you claim Vegeta was able to damage him which is wrong. Reccome easily beat him. Vegeta says he is a baby compared to him

Recoome was obviously damaged. Look at the guy-bruises, cuts, scratches, missing teeth, missing hair, busted armor, torn clothing...
Compare this to any other tanking feat in the series. You know, the ones where people take full on ki blasts to the fact and take zero damage.

What did Recoome do that couldn't be done by a guy at 37,000?

Vegeta's attack > Vegeta and it hardly damaged Reccome stated by Gohan. The physical state is irrelevant as Reccome's ki was still the same. 37,000 can't beat someone who has a power level of 30,000 that easily. Reccome had a bigger lead Monster Zarbon had on Vegeta so 40,000 is right IMO while Reccome was not even serious vs Vegeta. Vegeta says he is a baby compared to him. No way Reccome is below 40,000

[Kamiccolo9]

Vegeta's attack > Vegeta and it hardly damaged Reccome stated by Gohan. The physical state is irrelevant as Reccome's ki was still the same. 37,000 can't beat someone who has a power level of 30,000 that easily. Reccome had a bigger lead Monster Zarbon had on Vegeta so 40,000 is right IMO while Reccome was not even serious vs Vegeta. Vegeta says he is a baby compared to him. No way Reccome is below 40,000

Vegeta had tiny leads over Kui, Dodoria, and first form Zarbon, yet he thrashed each of them. Who says that 37,000 can beat someone at 30,000 that easily?

Recoome's damage was negligible, as it was stated/implied by Krillin and Vegeta.

Compared to other tanking feats, like Freeza against the Kamehameha, Cell against Piccolo's attack, Cell not flinching from 16's punch or Vegeta's kick, Goku tanking Nappa's attack head-on, Nappa tanking the Kikoho, Chiaotzu's Self Destruction, and Gohan's Masenko., then Recoome took plenty of damage. Sure it was mostly superficial, but it would indicate that there's not a huge difference in power.

Actually, the closest comparison I can think of is Piccolo's sneak attack against Nappa. Both attacks caught the opponent off guard and hurt them without causing any real injury.

[rereboy]

Compared to other tanking feats, like Freeza against the Kamehameha, Cell against Piccolo's attack, Cell not flinching from 16's punch or Vegeta's kick, Goku tanking Nappa's attack head-on, Nappa tanking the Kikoho, Chiaotzu's Self Destruction, and Gohan's Masenko., then Recoome took plenty of damage. Sure it was mostly superficial, but it would indicate that there's not a huge difference in power.

Actually, the closest comparison I can think of is Piccolo's sneak attack against Nappa. Both attacks caught the opponent off guard and hurt them without causing any real injury.

All or most of those situations had zero damage. Reccome had damage, but it was negligible. That means that Vegeta had just enough power to cause some sort of negligible damage with full on direct attacks but that was the most he could do with his power level. How does that translate to numbers? I have no idea. Its not like they are very consistent.

[Kamiccolo9]

Compared to other tanking feats, like Freeza against the Kamehameha, Cell against Piccolo's attack, Cell not flinching from 16's punch or Vegeta's kick, Goku tanking Nappa's attack head-on, Nappa tanking the Kikoho, Chiaotzu's Self Destruction, and Gohan's Masenko., then Recoome took plenty of damage. Sure it was mostly superficial, but it would indicate that there's not a huge difference in power.

Actually, the closest comparison I can think of is Piccolo's sneak attack against Nappa. Both attacks caught the opponent off guard and hurt them without causing any real injury.

All or most of those situations had zero damage. Reccome had damage, but it was negligible. That means that Vegeta had just enough power to cause some sort of negligible damage with full on direct attacks but that was the most he could do with his power level. How does that translate to numbers? I have no idea. Its not like they are very consistent.

Which is why I'm wondering why I'm asking Undertaker why Recoome being at 37 thousand is impossible. It allows for enough of a gap for Vegeta to do some superficial damage, yet also allows Recoome to stomp him when he decides to get serious.

[Undertaker]

Vegeta's attack > Vegeta and it hardly damaged Reccome stated by Gohan. The physical state is irrelevant as Reccome's ki was still the same. 37,000 can't beat someone who has a power level of 30,000 that easily. Reccome had a bigger lead Monster Zarbon had on Vegeta so 40,000 is right IMO while Reccome was not even serious vs Vegeta. Vegeta says he is a baby compared to him. No way Reccome is below 40,000

Vegeta had tiny leads over Kui, Dodoria, and first form Zarbon, yet he thrashed each of them. Who says that 37,000 can beat someone at 30,000 that easily?

Recoome's damage was negligible, as it was stated/implied by Krillin and Vegeta.

Compared to other tanking feats, like Freeza against the Kamehameha, Cell against Piccolo's attack, Cell not flinching from 16's punch or Vegeta's kick, Goku tanking Nappa's attack head-on, Nappa tanking the Kikoho, Chiaotzu's Self Destruction, and Gohan's Masenko., then Recoome took plenty of damage. Sure it was mostly superficial, but it would indicate that there's not a huge difference in power.

Actually, the closest comparison I can think of is Piccolo's sneak attack against Nappa. Both attacks caught the opponent off guard and hurt them without causing any real injury.

The difference between Vegeta and and Cui is the same like between 30,000 to 40,000 so my point stands. Vegeta can't survive blasts from even Cui Cui though so it just proves my point

There was a big difference in power. Nappa was over 2X Tien and who is way ahead of Chiaoutzu

The differences you mention are massive and probably several times greater so Reccome being 1.4X stronger than Vegeta is OK

Sneak attacks mean nothing and Reccome considered it as a warm up

[Kamiccolo9]

You are missing the point. The point is, those other tanking feats are because of huge power differences. If Recoome was much, much stronger than Vegeta, than Vegeta couldn't scratch him. So he's obviously not that far ahead. And you haven't answered my question of why 37,000 can't work.

[Undertaker]

You are missing the point. The point is, those other tanking feats are because of huge power differences. If Recoome was much, much stronger than Vegeta, than Vegeta couldn't scratch him. So he's obviously not that far ahead. And you haven't answered my question of why 37,000 can't work.

The difference you showed are at least 2X which doesn't debunk what I said

Reccome can be 1.333X Vegeta just like Vegeta and Cui

37,000 is low since the difference between Vegeta and Reccome should not be lower than Vegeta and Cui and you never answered me

[Kamiccolo9]

You are missing the point. The point is, those other tanking feats are because of huge power differences. If Recoome was much, much stronger than Vegeta, than Vegeta couldn't scratch him. So he's obviously not that far ahead. And you haven't answered my question of why 37,000 can't work.

The difference you showed are at least 2X which doesn't debunk what I said

Reccome can be 1.333X Vegeta just like Vegeta and Cui

37,000 is low since the difference between Vegeta and Reccome should not be lower than Vegeta and Cui and you never answered me

You didn't ask anything.
Or he can be 1.09x stronger than Vegeta, which is the same gap that was between Vegeta and Dodoria.
Or he can be at 37,000, which is in the middle of those numbers.

[Undertaker]

You are missing the point. The point is, those other tanking feats are because of huge power differences. If Recoome was much, much stronger than Vegeta, than Vegeta couldn't scratch him. So he's obviously not that far ahead. And you haven't answered my question of why 37,000 can't work.

The difference you showed are at least 2X which doesn't debunk what I said

Reccome can be 1.333X Vegeta just like Vegeta and Cui

37,000 is low since the difference between Vegeta and Reccome should not be lower than Vegeta and Cui and you never answered me

You didn't ask anything.
Or he can be 1.09x stronger than Vegeta, which is the same gap that was between Vegeta and Dodoria.
Or he can be at 37,000, which is in the middle of those numbers.

Reccome survived Vegeta's blasts with no major damage and called it a warm up. Vegeta could not even survive Cui Cui's blasts if he had to stay still instead of using his speed to move

Zarbon and Dodria can take out Vegeta if they team up. Again, Reccome beat Vegeta easier than Monster Zarbon so 40,000 works fine

[Kamiccolo9]

Reccome survived Vegeta's blasts with no major damage and called it a warm up. Vegeta could not even survive Cui Cui's blasts if he had to stay still instead of using his speed to move

Zarbon and Dodria can take out Vegeta if they team up. Again, Reccome beat Vegeta easier than Monster Zarbon so 40,000 works fine

Who says Vegeta couldn't survive Kui's blasts? Who says that Zarbon and Dodoria could team up and take Vegeta? What does that have to do with Recoome's Battle Power?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I don't think Vegeta would have any trouble tanking Kiwi's Chi-attacks.

Freeza says Zarbon and Dodoria would be able to defeat Vegeta if they teamed-up.

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't think Vegeta would have any trouble tanking Kiwi's Chi-attacks.

Freeza says Zarbon and Dodoria would be able to defeat Vegeta if they teamed-up.

Does Freeza know how inept Dodoria is? I see this playing out just like Vegeta vs Zarbon, except with Vegeta one-shotting Dodoria before getting thrashed by Monster Zarbon.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I never actually agreed with Freeza's assessment on the matter to be quite honest. Neither Dodoria or Zarbon are powerful enough to do anything to Vegeta...so I doubt a team attack would matter much. Also, when you consider how often Vegeta keeps his guard up, I find it very unlikely that they'd be able to distract him enough to gain any sort of advantage.

Both were kinda shitting themselves, so I guess Freeza was trying to instill some confidence in them...or something.

[Kamiccolo9]

I never actually agreed with Freeza's assessment on the matter to be quite honest. Neither Dodoria or Zarbon are powerful enough to do anything to Vegeta...so I doubt a team attack would matter much. Also, when you consider how often Vegeta keeps his guard up, I find it very unlikely that they'd be able to distract him enough to gain any sort of advantage.

Both were kinda shitting themselves, so I guess Freeza was trying to instill some confidence in them...or something.

I doubt he cared. Maybe he just thought it'd be funny, or maybe he was referring to Zarbon having access to his Monster Form.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

If the guidebook Battle Powers are anything to go by, it sounds like Freeza is basing their potential advantage on pure numbers alone.

I don't quite remember the exact levels, but I think Zarbon was 23,000 and Dodoria was 22,000. If those are indeed accurate, then it makes sense for Freeza to think the two of them could one-up Vegeta's 24,000 based on numbers alone. Of course we're shown otherwise in the battles, but I'm just trying to see it from another POV. He could be referring to monster Zarbon, but I don't think he is.

[Kamiccolo9]

If the guidebook Battle Powers are anything to go by, it sounds like Freeza is basing their potential advantage on pure numbers alone.

I don't quite remember the exact levels, but I think Zarbon was 23,000 and Dodoria was 22,000. If those are indeed accurate, then it makes sense for Freeza to think the two of them could one-up Vegeta's 24,000 based on numbers alone. Of course we're shown otherwise in the battles, but I'm just trying to see it from another POV. He could be referring to monster Zarbon, but I don't think he is.

Yeah, those are the numbers.
I put this fight in the versus thread, and RandomGuy96 made what I think is a good point. Zarbon and Dodoria might, theoretically, be able to take out most 24,000 level people, but Vegeta is an exception, due to his endurance, tenacity, ruthlessness, and skill. Vegeta took attacks that were way stronger than he was back in the Saiyan Arc, so I doubt that Zarbon and Dodoria's best efforts would be enough to put him down.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah, I have to agree with that. Especially if that 24,000 person was Yamcha instead....