Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by AgitoZ » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:00 pm

vince90x wrote:I bet if they had Kai on today's toonami it would be doing more for the series than nick toons does. Damn. I reaally miss those old toonami days :'(
Hellspawn28 wrote:I think Kai uncut on Toonami would have work better since most people who watched Kai on Nicktoons were the fans of the series. DBZ was the thing that most people remember about Toonami. Having it on that channel would appeal to wider TV viewers.
No, it wouldn't. It defeats the whole purpose of Kai by airing it during midnight on Saturdays instead of weekdays to a younger generation.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:41 pm

It seems like most people who are into Dragon Ball are their in early 20's. Most likely they grew up watching it on Toonami in the late 90's and early 2000's which is another reason to put it on Toonami instead. DBZ is easy to market to older teens and young adults then kids in the US in my opinion.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Mewzard » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:49 pm

AgitoZ wrote:No, it wouldn't. It defeats the whole purpose of Kai by airing it during midnight on Saturdays instead of weekdays to a younger generation.
But that's the thing, it can be aired both on Cable and Broadcast TV (and that's not counting streaming rights and DVD/Blu Ray). Why not have Cable be for the Toonami crowd, and have the broadcast version be the ones that kids have easy access to?
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by AgitoZ » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:49 pm

Mewzard wrote:But that's the thing, it can be aired both on Cable and Broadcast TV (and that's not counting streaming rights and DVD/Blu Ray). Why not have Cable be for the Toonami crowd, and have the broadcast version be the ones that kids have easy access to?
Because it'll be on during daylight hours on two channels and have the opportunity for reruns if it's not on Toonami. I also have to assume the people over at Nick have more money than the Williams Street people. I also have to assume the Toonami crowd has much lower amount of truly new viewers to the series.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:34 pm

Yeah.

And besides on Nicktoons it gets brand new blood to the world of Dragon Ball.

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Re: Is Dbz Kai on Nicktoons becoming what Dbz was on Toonmai

Post by Nex Carnifex » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:41 pm

penguintruth wrote:Of course not. There's too many choices today.

Nothing is going to become the stalwart center of any network anymore, because there's DVR, home video is relatively cheap, and people download almost everything. There's also ninety billion other channels to choose from with other things on. It would be suicidal for Nicktoons to even attempt to make DBZ Kai the center of their programming the way CN's Toonami made DBZ their center for so long. No one show is going to do it anymore. It's just not the way TV works now.
Plus Nicktoons doesn't sound as cool as Toonami does, nor does it have a chill robot host, which matters

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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Ringworm128 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:48 pm

It could get almost as big as DBZ if it had a better timeslot and a more popular channel. I mean c'mon, it's freaking Dragonball! Kids loved it back then the few that have seen it today love it, it's got dudes fighting, kids love that shit, heck even teens and adults love that shit.

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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:52 am

You know Nicktoons will air the Boo Saga as soon as its done dubbing, right?

I bet the ratings will skyrocket then!

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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Kakarot88 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:42 am

Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on TOONAMI?

No, nickelodeon does not even have the series in its line up anymore http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... s-schedule

I'm guessing that'll change with the Boo arc but who knows.

However, I do not think Kai will ever be able to be as entertaining as the funimation dub of Z on Toonami, unless the music changes. Aside from users on Kanzenshuu I have never heard anyone speak positively about the music. The American cast even made fun of the music at Animazement. The music just makes the show feel lame.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Son Satan » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:50 am

Cure Drragon wrote:Toonzai/Vortexx's airings of DBZKai scored 1.3 million viewers of all ages. Still less kids than at prime but A WHOLE LOT more than Nicktoons.
Well that's understandable. Everybody can get a CW signal on broadcast, while Nicktoons is a premium cable channel.
Toonzai probably could have hit Toonami numbers if the TV format was the same as back then, for instance, having actual Saturday morning blocks the way ABC, Fox, and the WB did, because that makes kids more liable to watch TV on Saturday mornings.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Ringworm128 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:04 am

There is nothing "lame" about orchestrated music. There is a reason it has been used in countless TV shows and movies.

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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:07 am

Let's be frank here - the original Ocean run plus the initial run of the Funi dub is the reason most of us are here, and the reason that the vast internet universe of DBZ fandom exists.

I don't see DBZ Kai Angelfire fansites popping up by the dozens.

Yes, I'm aware that's not how the internet works anymore. :P
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by ABED » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:15 am

Cursed Lemon wrote:Let's be frank here - the original Ocean run plus the initial run of the Funi dub is the reason most of us are here, and the reason that the vast internet universe of DBZ fandom exists.

I don't see DBZ Kai Angelfire fansites popping up by the dozens.

Yes, I'm aware that's not how the internet works anymore. :P
Not a proof of its quality. Not sure if you were implying that, but thought I'd throw my two cents in.
However, I do not think Kai will ever be able to be as entertaining as the funimation dub of Z on Toonami, unless the music changes. Aside from users on Kanzenshuu I have never heard anyone speak positively about the music. The American cast even made fun of the music at Animazement. The music just makes the show feel lame.
Do you really think the difference in popularity is due to the music? These are two completely different eras, you can't point to how Kai is doing and say "it's less successful because of the music." It's apples and oranges. The music isn't the reason for a few more million viewers. Is there a link where I can get proof of the American cast making fun of the music? It can't be the whole cast because I've read that many of them if not most enjoy the original music.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Kakarot88 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:40 am

Read through the "We Are Goku Panel" that Derek Padula transcribed. Schemmel's individual panel was not transcribed nor recorded because he asked us not to do so. Kyle Hebert also discussed it at his other sessions. I did not record any session so you can choose not to believe me but search for Schemmel talking about Kai or outtakes in the new season and he talks about it in in the We Are Goku panel or East Meets West I don't have what they said memorized but it has been memorialized at least. It's in one of the two if my words aren't good enough for you lol. At his individual panels he talked about how he thought all the voice acting and script was superior but thought the music didn't fit in a lot of places and asked what we thought.

Music can make or break a film. It sets the mood. Kai's music makes it fall flat because the symphony canned stuff used for every moment that can be pigeon holed as scary or intense etc leads to a respective quality that never conveyed excitement the first time around. Goku going SS3 in the Funi dub is loved by many fans beyond it being what they heard first time because shen it comes down to it the scrne is just screaming. The scream is whatever, but it's the music with it that brings it all together and makes it loved.

Kai is decent at times but it could have been great.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:43 am

ABED wrote:Not a proof of its quality. Not sure if you were implying that, but thought I'd throw my two cents in.
Not quality, just popularity! :)
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by AgitoZ » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:53 am

Cursed Lemon wrote:Let's be frank here - the original Ocean run plus the initial run of the Funi dub is the reason most of us are here, and the reason that the vast internet universe of DBZ fandom exists.

I don't see DBZ Kai Angelfire fansites popping up by the dozens.

Yes, I'm aware that's not how the internet works anymore. :P
Honestly, let's be honest here, the original run of the series in the US tanked. It wasn't until it got a decent timeslot (which is what you're probably thinking of) that it got popular. That was it, if it wasn't done by Toonami another programming block could've done it. Toonami isn't special.

It's also rather ignorant to think that the Toonami run is why most of us are here. The earliest English fan sites were done by people who caught the series before it even got on Toonami. Hell, half the forum is inhabited by international remembers. I watched the series before it was on Toonami.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:03 am

AgitoZ wrote: Honestly, let's be honest here, the original run of the series in the US tanked. It wasn't until it got a decent timeslot (which is what you're probably thinking of) that it got popular. That was it, if it wasn't done by Toonami another programming block could've done it. Toonami isn't special.

It's also rather ignorant to think that the Toonami run is why most of us are here. The earliest English fan sites were done by people who caught the series before it even got on Toonami. Hell, half the forum is inhabited by international remembers. I watched the series before it was on Toonami.
Well, I WAS referring to the Toonami run since it is most obviously the time period in which DBZ was having the biggest impact, but I don't see how the timeslot is relevant to the question being asked here - "is Kai on Nicktoons achieving the same prolific exposure and success that DBZ initially skyrocketed to".

The answer is no, it's not.

While I don't doubt that DBZ fan sites would still be on the net, do you really think that Kai is popular enough to draw a parallel to a time when multiple MASSIVE DBZ fan sites were operating at the same time? Karin Tower, Planet Namek, The Ultimate DBZ Info Page, Temple O' Trunks, and others including the parent sites of this very page.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by ABED » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:31 am

Kakarot88 wrote:Read through the "We Are Goku Panel" that Derek Padula transcribed. Schemmel's individual panel was not transcribed nor recorded because he asked us not to do so. Kyle Hebert also discussed it at his other sessions. I did not record any session so you can choose not to believe me but search for Schemmel talking about Kai or outtakes in the new season and he talks about it in in the We Are Goku panel or East Meets West I don't have what they said memorized but it has been memorialized at least. It's in one of the two if my words aren't good enough for you lol. At his individual panels he talked about how he thought all the voice acting and script was superior but thought the music didn't fit in a lot of places and asked what we thought.

Music can make or break a film. It sets the mood. Kai's music makes it fall flat because the symphony canned stuff used for every moment that can be pigeon holed as scary or intense etc leads to a respective quality that never conveyed excitement the first time around. Goku going SS3 in the Funi dub is loved by many fans beyond it being what they heard first time because shen it comes down to it the scrne is just screaming. The scream is whatever, but it's the music with it that brings it all together and makes it loved.

Kai is decent at times but it could have been great.
I'll take a symphony, canned or not, over the droning obnoxious and unmemorable synth music we got. It didn't fit the show in the least. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "the moment is pigeon holed as scary or intense leads to a respective quality that never conveyed excitement the first time around." SS3 is a cool transformation. I'm glad people liked the music but the music isn't what put eyeballs to the television. It was already a huge moment for the series everywhere else even when the original music was kept. People would've remembered it regardless of the music and at least it conveyed the proper tone. Are you saying the Z dub was great because of the music, regardless of everything else?

I don't get it and will never get why some seem to place more emphasis on the music than dialog, performances and characterization. "The dialog, whatever, what about the music!? Who cares if the actors sound like crap and the dialog is embarassing, I'm here for the music!" Even if I accepted the idea that the Faulconer score was excellent, Z's dub would still be garbage due to many of the casting choices, terrible scripts, and bad acting. Good music can only do so much if those things and the story aren't connecting with people. What about the action? You know, the thing that kids really cared about. "Who cares about the fighting and smashing, what about the music?!"

I found nothing in the We Are Goku panel about Sean not liking the music. I've seen and read interviews where he said he enjoys the original, not that it really matters what the voice actors think of the music.

I and so many others have said it before, Kai was popular when it aired, but was never going to equal the numbers DBZ got because it's the show's first airing in the US and it was on a more popular channel at a time when there were a lot less options and it was aired at an optimal time. THere's no doubt in my mind that the show would've been just as popular in US had it been dubbed like Kai or Z movies 1-3.
Last edited by ABED on Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by Kakarot88 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:57 am

Action and acting only goes so far...it sounds lame. People dub over GT music with Z because of how amazing Z was just YouTube search it.

Here is exactly what I was referring to after searching the word "Kai" in Derek's blog.

"And we just did some outtakes in Kai where the music sounded like George Michael’s ‘Faith,’ and they’re walking along and the music is going, “Dun da dun dun da dun dun dun..."
http://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/inte ... imazement/

Nothing says Dragon Ball Z like George Michael lol but yeah it's soooooo good...AND EVERYONE JUST LOVES IT!!!...the music is soooo much better that's why people love kai so much more and never complain about it making Dragon Ball Z lame. If you cut out filler it should be doing better not merely ok. But yeah for sure music never would affect that. I mean it's not like Star Wars or Indiana Jones were known for their scores. Nor did it affect the Back to the Future franchise, Harry Potter, or Lord of the Rings. Nope music did not make a difference. It especially plays no role in Dexter or Game of Thrones and is irrelevant in Entourage entirely. Nor was it at all in any way effective in Samurai Jack or Batman the animated series in helping them get Emmys... Nor are awards given for music in television or movies like best soundtrack...I am bring very sarcastic just in case it was lost on you.
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Re: Is Kai on Nicktoons becoming what DBZ was on Toonami?

Post by ABED » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:07 pm

I read that part but I don't know what he's referring to. Is he saying some of the music in the show sounded like "Faith"? If so, what piece? That's one moment, and I'll take a questionable cue over the droning, bland "music" that passed for a DB score. It wasn't Dragon Ball. I also don't base my preference off of what they think. THere are plenty of questionable decisions they've made that I disagree with. "Cat loves food" and Killa's irritating dialog were Sabat's idea.

Music helps convey a mood, but the people who tend to complain about the music do so because of nostalgia. It's not what they grew up with. I question whether they get DB's tone. Kikuchi's score sets the mood beautifully. So what if many of the same tracks are used over and over again? Orchestral scores are expensive. Even a show like Friends had only a few new cues every season.

Music is important but if you think people turned up in droves and would've watched those classic films because of the score regardless of performance, script or characters, you are kidding yourself. People loved Harry potter and Lord of the Rings before John Williams or Howard Shore. The script and the performances were what people loved. The score just helped, it's not what put asses in seats. Do you think people would've enjoyed Batman the animated series if all it had was the great score? What if Mark Hammill and Kevin Conroy didn't voice The Joker and Batman? What if what we got was people with little acting experience who auditioned after seeing a flyer? What if the scripts were poor? Instead of Batman being dark and awesome, we got him saying "That's one whopper of a lizard!" or "Mondo cool".

Did I say music was unimportant?
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