Buu Saga: The Best/Worst Saga In DBZ

[Saiga]

It's competing with the Saiyan arc for best Dragon Ball arc, but it has some major problems which really drag it down. I love the arc up until Potara is introduced, at which point it really turns to shit (but recovers somewhat for the final battle). I love almost everything about it up until that point, though.

*I love the focus on Gohan which allows him to have a personality (and makes him really interesting) - the High School portion is a really enjoyable change of pace for Dragon Ball and the Saiyaman antics are great.
*I love Boo as a villain, without a doubt my favourite Dragon Ball villain. All his forms have a great design, and each personality is likeable in their own way. Evil Boo's plan made me really appreciate him as a villain.
*I like the fusion dance, and enjoyed the Super Gotenks vs Boo battle. I don't mind that Gotenks failed, given the restrictions of both fusion and SS3 plus his personality, it was a satisfying development.
*I like Piccolo's role in this arc. I don't believe it ruined his character, I think it was a good way to make him relevant that didn't involve him getting a power up that wouldn't achieve anything. I would go as far as to say that he is at his best in this arc.
*I like Videl's character and the romance between her and Gohan.
*Unlike most others I like Super Saiyan 3. The design looks awesome and I like that it's heavily flawed. I just think the way it was introduced could have been handled better.
*I like that Gohan was meant to be the hero, and the power-up he got from the old Kaioshin as well. The idea that the Super Saiyan transformations were the wrong way to go about things worked well, and I like how old Kaioshin gave Gohan access to his power without the need to transform.

However, once Potara is introduced, Gohan gets absorbed and then shoved aside, Evil Boo is turned into an idiot so Vegetto can look cool, then he's nerfed down to Pure Boo so Goku can fight him alone (which is a really confusing sequence that makes understanding Boo rather difficult), Goku is retconned into being able to defeat Fat Boo all along which makes him responsible for things getting so far out of hand, and the only reason there is any tension in the battle with Boo is because they refuse to bring Gohan or Gotenks to stomp Boo. These issues aside, it's still enjoyable, but not enjoyable enough to make up for the problems that come with it.

If the arc had ended with Gohan defeating Bootenks somehow I think it would easily be the best arc in all of Dragon Ball. I really disagree with Toriyama's view that Gohan was unsuited for the hero role, I grew tired of Goku as the lead and think the quality of the story really dropped to allow for Goku taking over again.

[ABED]

But we would've missed out on Vegeta admitting Goku is Number one.

I agree with Toriyama, Gohan wasn't suited for the role.

[Saiga]

But we would've missed out on Vegeta admitting Goku is Number one.

Not worth all the shit the story went through. That could have still happened, albeit in a different way like after the battle is finished.

[ABED]

I'm a much bigger fan of what happens between Vegetto and the end of the kid Buu fight. I find it far better than what came before. I dug Vegetto and Kid Buu.

That could have still happened, albeit in a different way like after the battle is finished.

A lot of stuff could have happened differently. Gohan being the hero isn't one I'm fond of. I like Goku as the main character, he's more interesting and fun. Gohan doesn't want to be a warrior, but Goku is so driven, which is something I find admirable.

[coola]

While i liked Buu and Vegetto, i hated Goten and Trunks, and how much a..hole Goku become, ignorance of Kaioshin, i`ve recently watched video on brainscratchcomms on Youtube (Comments of IGN Top 100 Animated TV Series) and Solaris ddn`t like fact, that Majin Buu saga didn`t have any connection to Gok and this saga was unnecessary.

[ABED]

Goku "became an asshole" because of the retcons.

[Saiga]

Goku "became an asshole" because of the retcons.

Which doesn't excuse anything, it just shows how much the story suffered by the late decision to put Goku back in the leading role. If it weren't for that Goku wouldn't have been an asshole.

[Gaffer Tape]

*I like the fusion dance, and enjoyed the Super Gotenks vs Boo battle. I don't mind that Gotenks failed, given the restrictions of both fusion and SS3 plus his personality, it was a satisfying development.
*I like Piccolo's role in this arc. I don't believe it ruined his character, I think it was a good way to make him relevant that didn't involve him getting a power up that wouldn't achieve anything. I would go as far as to say that he is at his best in this arc.
*I like Videl's character and the romance between her and Gohan.

Just wanted to say how much I agreed with all of the above, especially about Piccolo. It drives me crazy when people talk about how Piccolo was ruined in this arc, when this is the best role he's been given since the Saiyan arc. All that happened to him in the last two arcs was getting a power-up that accomplished nothing. Putting him back in the babysitter role was hilarious and such a better idea than once again failing to make him relevant in battle.

[ABED]

Goku "became an asshole" because of the retcons.

Which doesn't excuse anything, it just shows how much the story suffered by the late decision to put Goku back in the leading role. If it weren't for that Goku wouldn't have been an asshole.

It excuses his behavior because if it was intentional then that it means Toriyama wrote Goku out of character and intended to make him an a-hole. In reality, Toriyama doesn't plan his stories ahead of time, so he fills in logic gaps as best as he can or wants to.

I'd still take a mistaken Goku over Gohan who constantly has to be babied and doubts himself. The story doesn't suffer that much because Goku ultimately puts things right again.

[Saiga]

It excuses his behavior because if it was intentional then that it means Toriyama wrote Goku out of character and intended to make him an a-hole. In reality, Toriyama doesn't plan his stories ahead of time, so he fills in logic gaps as best as he can or wants to.

I'd still take a mistaken Goku over Gohan who constantly has to be babied and doubts himself. The story doesn't suffer that much because Goku ultimately puts things right again.

No, it doesn't. Toriyama didn't intend Goku to be an asshole, but the story makes it clear that he's an asshole. At the time, he didn't intend for him to be able to beat Boo either, but that doesn't mean he can't beat Boo post-retcon.

Goku wasn't mistaken, he was a bastard who gives zero shits about anything other than passing the torch, which he failed to do. So everything he did was ultimately all for nothing.

[ABED]

It excuses his behavior because if it was intentional then that it means Toriyama wrote Goku out of character and intended to make him an a-hole. In reality, Toriyama doesn't plan his stories ahead of time, so he fills in logic gaps as best as he can or wants to.

I'd still take a mistaken Goku over Gohan who constantly has to be babied and doubts himself. The story doesn't suffer that much because Goku ultimately puts things right again.

No, it doesn't. Toriyama didn't intend Goku to be an asshole, but the story makes it clear that he's an asshole. At the time, he didn't intend for him to be able to beat Boo either, but that doesn't mean he can't beat Boo post-retcon.

Goku wasn't mistaken, he was a bastard who gives zero shits about anything other than passing the torch, which he failed to do. So everything he did was ultimately all for nothing.

I don't consider him an asshole, and yes, if he planned out the story, Goku wouldn't have been written out of character and as you wrote, "an asshole".

He was mistaken about his kids' ability to take over the torch and defend their world. At some point the training wheels had to come off and even after the Cell fight, Gohan is still as inept as ever. Do you really think given Goku's character for the entirety of Dragon Ball that he didn't care about anything else?

[Appūru-sama]

The biggest mistake the Buu saga made is in it's identity crisis. Not just in the constant and tedious changes in Buu's forms, and the protagonist hopping from Gohan to Vegeta to Goku to Gotenks to Gohan again and back to Goku and Vegeta. But the tone of the saga itself doesn't know what it's supposed to be; epic or gag manga. Toriyama seems to have a longing for his earlier Dr. Slump days and it reflects in the saga's antics and forced humor. You can't keep the stakes high while simultaneously going for poop jokes.

[ABED]

The biggest mistake the Buu saga made is in it's identity crisis. Not just in the constant and tedious changes in Buu's forms, and the protagonist hopping from Gohan to Vegeta to Goku to Gotenks to Gohan again and back to Goku and Vegeta. But the tone of the saga itself doesn't know what it's supposed to be; epic or gag manga. Toriyama seems to have a longing for his earlier Dr. Slump days and it reflects in the saga's antics and forced humor. You can't keep the stakes high while simultaneously going for poop jokes.

I like when stories switch tones, that said Gotenks wasn't fit to be the hero of the story, and I don't think Vegeta was ever positioned as such. It's possible to have a lot of humor and tension, Buffy and Supernatural do it all the time.

[DBZAOTA482]

But we would've missed out on Vegeta admitting Goku is Number one.

Meh. Even though he was cold Vegeta already admits Goku was No. 1 when he yelled at Trunks for suggesting that Goku should eat a senzu and that everyone should gang up on the mildly tired Cell.

[ABED]

But we would've missed out on Vegeta admitting Goku is Number one.

Meh. Even though he was cold Vegeta already admits Goku was No. 1 when he yelled at Trunks for suggesting that Goku should eat a senzu and that everyone should gang up on the mildly tired Cell.

That's not the same thing. Even he can admit when Goku is stronger than him, but this was different, he said there was something fundamentally special about Goku and why he's a cut above the rest and always will be.

[Cursed Lemon]

The Buu saga is incredibly iconic for the DBZ series, that's something that no one can deny. SSJ3 Goku, the fusions, Vegeta's sacrifice, mystic Gohan, Buu himself and all of his forms, the Kais, the Great Saiyaman (ridiculous as this was), the list really stretches on for a while.

Now, that doesn't mean the arc wasn't executed with total butterfingers, and it certainly doesn't mean that it dragged out WAY longer than it needed to. However, cutting material out of the Buu saga could be rather cumbersome, as there isn't so much "filler" (well, there IS) as it is one cohesive cluster of tripe. You'd have to rework the entire saga, I feel, in order to cut out most of the unnecessary elements in a way that makes sense. I'm really interested to see what Buu Kai looks like.

[Majin Buu]

It's one of the best arcs because Toriyama is lampooning the entire series up to that point. Ridiculous transformations that up the power scale dramatically, the build up of "mighty warriors" only to all completely fall flat, and the return of some of that early DB/Slump-esque humor; It was the ending that this series needed, and I think a lot more people would appreciate these things if, say, North America wasn't introduced the the middle of the series and didn't have such a skewed view of what its about.

Or maybe they wouldn't, since the "Z" era is more popular globally anyway, but who knows?

Agreed. If your idea of the series is RAGE FUCK YEAH ACTION like the majority of the American fanbase seems to have, then you're likely to find the Buu arc (and early Dragon Ball) too silly by comparison.

[Tenshin_Saiyan]

For me, the Buu arc is the third best of the series, right behind Piccolo and Freeza arcs. I liked how Toriyama brought back the humour to the series, and despite some plot holes and inconsistencies, I enjoyed the action and all the innovation. (fusion, potara, ssj3, Mystic Gohan etc). And I really liked the final chapter... I prefer much more DBZ ending than DBGT ending.

[Saiyatonian]

It had it's moments, but it's definitely the weakest compared to the others. I enjoyed the Saiyan saga a lot more to be honest.

[DBZ Mick]

It's not the best -- the Saiyan and Freeza arcs are better -- but it redeems the series somewhat after the complete mess of the Cell arc. The ending isn't terrible, but for a series as long as DBZ, you want something more satisfying.


The overarching story of the Boo saga isn't as compelling as the Saiyan or Freeza sagas, but there are lot of bits and pieces in it that make it worth watching and that have already been mentioned in this thread: the humor, seeing the characters grow up or mature, Goku and Vegeta's final battle, fusion etc.


People complain about Goku doing everything or winning the final battle and praise the Cell arc for ending with the ultimate triumph of someone other than Goku, but this is, after all, Goku's story. If the series was literally called "Goku's story" or else had his name in the title somewhere, which it reasonably could, no one would be complaining. I don't mind that GT does this and largely ignores Uub, whom Goku spent all those years training --- but I do mind that it's wildly inconsistent in terms of Goku's strength after being turned back into a child.

Basically this.

I've stated my thoughts on this topic a number of times (people are probably sick of it, lol). I think the Artificial Human/Cell arcs should be more criticised, they are vastly more flawed than the Boo saga (which has a lot of flaws itself).