Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
TheGmGoken wrote:I said the aura made him red. I never said the form itself changed his colors. SSG didn't change much. Yes his hair color change and such. But his overall appearance stood the same. The DOG president could't even recognized Goku. I'm pretty sure he would know it was Goku had he saw him.
Just because Goku didn't change much doesn't mean he didn't change at all. Since there is a change, it is a transformation.
TheGmGoken wrote:SSG had extremely less changes than LSSJ.
Not really. LSS made Broli larger, slightly altered his hairstyle shape, made him pale, gave him blank eyes, and a more intense aura.
SSG made Goku slimmer, gave him red hair, red eyes, and a new aura.
It's 5 vs 4. No big difference.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Could it be slightly possible that when Goku was wished back to a kid on accident, that his tail began growing from inside again? IDK, maybe I'm just thinking too hard. Still thinking its just a plot hole.
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
Just because Goku didn't change much doesn't mean he didn't change at all. Since there is a change, it is a transformation.
So I guess Kaioken is a transformation now since his Aura changed. It didn't change much but there is still a change.
Not really. LSS made Broli larger, slightly altered his hairstyle shape, made him pale, gave him blank eyes, and a more intense aura.
SSG made Goku slimmer, gave him red hair, red eyes, and a new aura.
It's 5 vs 4. No big difference.
Still saying LSSJ had more changes than SSG which is something you said wasn't true.
DynasticHunter wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something here but didn't Old Kaioshin pull his tail out? Its been a while since I have seen GT.
Consider it a plothole, out of several that GT has. Goku did in fact permanently have his tail removed when he trained on Kami's lookout before the 23rd tournament. god knows how many years thats been in that gap between that moment and GT.
Hmm...what was the exact wording of Pilaf's wish again, I forget? I want to say that in the dub at least, he says something about 'I wish you were a little kid again like you were, then I'd REALLY teach you a lesson!' - which to me would kind of indicate that Goku's body wasn't returned to just a kid's form, it was the child body he had when he was actually young. IE, his tail was no longer 'removed' permanently.
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I think that the whole thing about the tail being permanently being removed just means that the tail can't grow up on its own anymore. It can still be forcibly drawn out though.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
"False" Super Saiyan is the best by far, followed by Super Saiyan 2.
The worst is without a doubt Super Saiyan G- no, forget it, I'm not even calling it a Super Saiyan form.
LSS and SS3 are tied for second worst.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
All of them. I liked SSJ4 for being an interesting mix of Oozaru and SSJ. Super Saiyan 3 for it's craziness. Super Saiyan 2 with the lightning in the aura was cool. Super Saiyan was cool with Goku and Vegeta but got out of hand quick. I like the colours used for SSJ God form like the aura.
It is in his character to be rude and a bit crass. He's a hick, with no formal education. That is Son Goku. That is who he is.
Superman in an orange Gi was the bastard son of FUNimation. Its not The real character, it is as false as Chatku.
Visually, at least on Goku, and the concept behind it, SSJ4.
In terms of its presence, impact on the story, and how it's used by the characters, SSJ2.
The different grades of the SSJ form Goku, Vegeta and Trunks were playing with were pretty neat too and made for an interesting sub plot in the Cell arc.
1. SSJ/SSJ4 I really like these two forms a lot. SSJ because of how cool it's always looked and it's impact and SSJ4 for feeling like the pinnacle of Super Saiyan and taking a whole new spin that I just love
2. LSSJ
3. False SSJ
Most other forms i'm indifferent too. I don't like base hair and slimming down for SSJ God, no eyebrows looks silly for SSJ3, and SSJ2 (excluding Kid Gohan) and the grade forms were just SSJ touch up jobs.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
