Power levels over-estimated?

Kodoshin · Post by **Kodoshin** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:46 am

Cell was going to explode and destroy the earth, he was certainly powerful enough to simply blast down and do what Freeza did if he had wanted to, but he elected to do this, the way his body plumped outwards it was pretty apparent that he wasn't making an attempt to destroy the earth via forcing all his energy straight down.

Please stop, or take this to PM's with me if you are so insistent on continuing, I'm starting to feel guilty for flooding the board with so many posts on such a silly topic, given that I feel your simply trying to convince me to accept something I simply feel is rather unbelievable at this point.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:59 am

Kodoshin wrote:Cell was going to explode and destroy the earth, he was certainly powerful enough to simply blast down and do what Freeza did if he had wanted to...

But Gohan was fast enough to stop anything that Cell tried. His only remaining option was to take advantage of Gohan's failure to immediately kill him and use his body as the instrument of Earth's destruction.

Kodoshin wrote:...but he elected to do this, the way his body plumped outwards it was pretty apparent that he wasn't making an attempt to destroy the earth via forcing all his energy straight down.

I never said you would have to direct all of your energy towards the core of the planet in order to induce a chain-reaction. That just appears to be what Freeza did.

Kodoshin wrote:Please stop, or take this to PM's with me if you are so insistent on continuing, I'm starting to feel guilty for flooding the board with so many posts on such a silly topic, given that I feel your simply trying to convince me to accept something I simply feel is rather unbelievable at this point.

If you don't want to continue, then feel free to stop posting in this thread. As you implied, this is a totally academic discussion. Like all of my topics.

Kodoshin · Post by **Kodoshin** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:10 am

I feel like I'm wasting posts, and that I'm embarassing myself participating in such a topic any longer. But I'm just too stubborn to quit I guess, so I'll go forward on the principal that I cant stand letting you have the last public word when I think your completely wrong

So how was Cell going to cause a chain reaction this time according to you? Please explain to me how since he wasn't forcing his energy downward. I'd love to counter your arguement but you didn't care to give any.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:23 am

Kodoshin wrote:So how was Cell going to cause a chain reaction this time according to you? Please explain to me how since he wasn't forcing his energy downward. I'd love to counter your arguement but you didn't care to give any.

Er, a runaway chain-reaction like the type I was proposing wouldn't be dependent upon the direction of the catalytic agent. The catalyst would simply have to be applied to the material that would continue and sustain the reaction. I haven't really defined the mechanism that would be responsible for initiating this reaction other than to specify it as "ki", but I suppose some time of matter-energy conversion works best. We know that the opposite of that process is possible through the application of "ki" since Gotenks can make rings of energy into a solid material, so it's not too much of a stretch.

Kodoshin · Post by **Kodoshin** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:26 am

Once again, could you just tell me what Cell was gonna do to cause this reaction, I dont feel like you gave me an answer there.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:33 am

Kodoshin wrote:Once again, could you just tell me what Cell was gonna do to cause this reaction, I dont feel like you gave me an answer there.

Whatever Freeza did. Only starting on the surface of the planet.

Kodoshin · Post by **Kodoshin** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:37 am

Ok, your trying to tell me that he was going to do the same thing Freeza did only starting at the surface of the planet

So your proposing that instead of the world being destroyed when he blewup, it was going to be devoured slowly layer-by-layer by his energy that runs over the surface of the planet and works it's way around the top of it entirely eating away layer by layer of the planet til theres nothing left?

Thats what it sounds like your telling me (are you?) and I'm finding that pretty ridiculous in comparison to him just exploding and the planet being gone.

EDIT: C'mon at least make it clear what your trying to say, your not making any sense to me here.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:59 am

Kodoshin wrote:Ok, your trying to tell me that he was going to do the same thing Freeza did only starting at the surface of the planet

So your proposing that instead of the world being destroyed when he blewup, it was going to be devoured slowly layer-by-layer by his energy that runs over the surface of the planet and works it's way around the top of it entirely eating away layer by layer of the planet til theres nothing left?

No, it would be a catastrophic, explosive chain-reaction just like what happened to Namek. When a chain-reaction like that is induced, the reacting material begins producing energy immediately. What matters is whether or not the reaction in the material would produce energy quickly enough to overcome the gravitational binding energy of the planet and destroy it. If it did, then you would probably see a large explosion on the surface of the Earth and the entire planet would fragment. Picture someone hitting a watermelon with a shovel.

Kodoshin wrote:Thats what it sounds like your telling me (are you?) and I'm finding that pretty ridiculous in comparison to him just exploding and the planet being gone.

Think of a sphere made from an explosive material. Cell self-destructing would be like applying a match to the outside of the sphere. The whole thing should fragment from the explosion -- it just wouldn't be as uniform as it would be had you magically applied the match to the precise center of the sphere.

Kodoshin · Post by **Kodoshin** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:17 am

I'm just not understanding you here: how would him exploding cause this reaction to begin, i.e. what would he actually damage to cause such a reaction?

And does that mean you concede the point about causing damage in a specific area like in my Cell/Vegeta example?

EDIT: Still no reply? Ok then given that you have given me no logical example of what he'd actually be damaging to cause this reaction, and the fact that it couldn't just be cause it's a large energy release since larger ones happen later on, I'll just take it that we have worked each other into a dead end at this point and were obviously not budging.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:56 am

**With eyes twitching Dayspring smacks the two of them**
Good GOD I hate your posts, Cadwell!

You're too wound up on how Toriyama doesn't keep his fantasy laws of physics consistent, something that the real-life laws of physics do all the time, as that is their purpose for being. However, please PLEASE PLEASE note that Toriyama couldn't even keep his colour scheme for his characters consistent. Like I said earlier, Toriyama was writing only "He's stronger than him, but weaker than him, who is strong enough to even do this". Just enjoy it for what it was! At a pl of 260 you can withstand kiloton nukes. THAT'S why Kame-Senin (pl 139) never weant after Boo! Deal with it!

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:17 pm

Dayspring wrote:**With eyes twitching Dayspring smacks the two of them**
Good GOD I hate your posts, Cadwell!

You're too wound up on how Toriyama doesn't keep his fantasy laws of physics consistent, something that the real-life laws of physics do all the time, as that is their purpose for being. However, please PLEASE PLEASE note that Toriyama couldn't even keep his colour scheme for his characters consistent. Like I said earlier, Toriyama was writing only "He's stronger than him, but weaker than him, who is strong enough to even do this". Just enjoy it for what it was! At a pl of 260 you can withstand kiloton nukes. THAT'S why Kame-Senin (pl 139) never weant after Boo! Deal with it!

You're right. It's impossible to reconcile all of the inconsistant events throughout the series by using any physics model -- even ones established by Toriyama. I think I'll just treat "ki" as magic now, since that's basically what it is and adaquately resolves the energy discrepancies.

Kodoshin wrote:EDIT: Still no reply? Ok then given that you have given me no logical example of what he'd actually be damaging to cause this reaction, and the fact that it couldn't just be cause it's a large energy release since larger ones happen later on, I'll just take it that we have worked each other into a dead end at this point and were obviously not budging.

Sorry, I was offline. Anyway, how does "it's magic" sound? Obviously "ki" isn't going to fit into any theory which treats it as normal energy, so like you've implied before, there's no point in attempting to determine yield from visual evidence.

So they wouldn't be using "energy" in the strict physical definition to accomplish anything -- it would all be done "mystically".

Kodoshin · Post by **Kodoshin** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:39 pm

I'll gladly continue to agree, to disagree with you on the method in which he was going to destroy the planet

I guess that was the only resoloution we were headed towards anyway.

But yeah, applying real life principals to most comic-type universes just does not seem to work.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:23 pm

having read through this yes, Ki is like magic - its supposed to be some kind of a mystical force - it was only given an energy look so you could see what it was doing - really all thats going on with Ki blasts is they're sendiung their "spirit" out to go smack into something, so yeah "its magic" would work perfectly fine since even this theory of Ki isnt entirely followed in DBZ.

And if we wanted to play science - how in gods name do they shoot big beams of energy anyway?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:06 am

Better question yet laserkid, how is Vegita able to breathe in space durning his search for Goku?

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:37 am

That one I COULD answer except for the fact they went back on it. They showed him as able to but THEN decide Saiyan's can't THATS where that one goes crazynuts.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:52 am

And don't forget, they did it twice. The other incident with both Nappa and Vegita in orbit above Arlia, right before Vegita gleefully destroyed it. Although, at keast you can't blame it on Toriyama since both of the scenes are just anime filler, this one's all Toei's mistake.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:29 am

Jerseymilk wrote:Better question yet laserkid, how is Vegita able to breathe in space durning his search for Goku?

Heh, I read that question as "how is laserkid able to breathe in space..."

Please don't hurt me.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:28 pm

It's all because you went and changed your avatar from Zorro! It's made your I.Q. go down!

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:45 pm

Is that so?

Well, Ginji-kun fits me the best. So I don't care. a piracy website.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:52 am

Fine, if you think so. Zorro's cooler though.